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Alan Sugar makes the WRONG decision yet again

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    asp746asp746 Posts: 7,286
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    yep - wrong decision again. he really should have got rid of ben last night - for the reasons other posters have said.

    no brainer imo and, if sralan ran a company i bought from regularly and ben was to win i'd abandon the product for sure.
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    janetcomelatelyjanetcomelately Posts: 7,405
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    Paula was showed great potential and a good soul in 'Your Fired' but was ultimately too nice to survive the boardroom.

    As for Ben, well he is good for ratings (as the villian) so he will probably be around for a few more weeks.
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    GoodMikeyGoodMikey Posts: 2,883
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    Digivate wrote: »
    Ben didn't humiliate Paula ... he shouted her down (as he does with everyone in the boardroom) and made a tit of himself ... if anyone was humiliated by the experience it was Ben himself.

    Paula didn't look even close to having a breakdown ... she's one of the few people who can leave the show with her head held high and her dignity intact.

    Now shut up before I "bite your teeth out".

    Look at it again, she calls him an idiot and he demolishes her
    Sid_1979 wrote: »
    Humiliating someone in the boardroom by behaving like a thug is not a barometer for measuring business acumen.

    Remaining composed and showing integrity, as Paula did, make you far more employable in the real world.
    too bad not on The Apprentice which is what she applied to..
    Ben only humiliated himself. Especially with his totally irrelevant "scholarship to Sandhurst" comment. I thought he had talked himself into getting fired when he said that.

    but then he didn't.
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    vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    But if the team leader should be solely responsible for everything, what is the point in having a team to delegate to? Paula played up to her strengths, and delegated her weaker point to two people who should have been an expert in the costings field. Her only mistake was still then getting involved in costings.

    Personally I think SAS or whoever is pulling the strings wants him to keep the bigger personalities in, because they make better tv. I knew that Paula would go, because she is nice girl, who didn't annoy anyone. Ben is an up-himself ***, and therefore makes for better tv.

    I co-direct a small business. And yes, you are quite right - you can't only employ people just because they are nice. But if someone like Ben wanted to come and work at our place, he would not have a chance - he is disruptive, alienates people and is only interested in what he himself can get out of anything.

    The bit I've bolded is surely the point though. Delegation of tasks you are weak on is all very well, but if you delegate then delegate. What Paula did was to say that the job was delegated, but then not actually delegate it. Hence the mistake was her responsibility, regardless of what decisions she made regarding delegation at the start. If I delegate a responsibility I oversee the job I've delegated, and am there to offer advice if requested, but I take a step back from the minutiae of the job. Paula failed to do this so didn't actually delegate the task at all.

    Even if we accept the delegation argument, then it should have been Yasmina who went, not Ben, since she was directly involved in the fatal error.

    As for Paula, she defended herself poorly in the boardroom. There is no way SAS, a man who made his fortune by selling cheap products, is going to employ someone who can't handle costings because their skillset is limited to that of a HR manager.
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    VeriVeri Posts: 96,996
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    rowanjeli wrote: »
    Shouldn't Ben have stepped in though? He was supposed to be in charge of finances.

    That was his role and she was perfectly correct in saying he did nothing to fulfil it.
    Right, and other people have been in trouble with Sir Alan because they didn't contribute where they should have, or because they held back and didn't really do anything. Ben was guilty of both of those faults, yet he was allowed to get away with it.
    Castanet wrote: »
    Paula had delegated the matter of costing to both Yasmina and Ben so she should have stayed clear away rather than allow herself to get involved and allow Ben to carry on with the mixing of the product which he was quite happy to do
    ...
    Of course he was happy to do it, playing it safe by doing something simple and hoping someone else would carry the can if anything went wrong.

    The costings were being considered as part of the design process, and so Paula, as one of the main designers, could not and should not stay clear away.
    kyussmondo wrote: »
    Paula shouldn't have just left Ben and Yasmina to it as Paula and Yasmina worked together to find a nice smelling fragrance that Ben admitted that he wasn't brilliant at. So Paula should have been there, Ben should have just played a more active role in costing.
    Yes, just so.

    But what I don't think was ever made very clear in the programme was why they didn't pick a higher price. They knew, by the time they were selling, that they had sandlewood in it and that it cost a lot. So why didn't they price it to match? :confused:
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    VeriVeri Posts: 96,996
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    AmjidS wrote: »
    ...
    Not sure why people find Ben vile, he is a bit of an idiot, that thinks too highly of himself. But to say he is vile is way too strong. He like all the other candidates, think too highly of themselves, they are all up their own backsides.
    ...
    "Vile" might be too strong, but "a bit of an idiot, that thinks too highly of himself" is far, far too weak; so "vile" is a better choice.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 799
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    I think he made the wrong decision. Paula came up with a good product and motivated her team to sell well. She had loads of potential in my opinion.


    Yes I wouldn't mind buying some of that soap myself.
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    beauty-1beauty-1 Posts: 2,037
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    Yet again I was cross with who was fired. Ben is so obnoxious and a totalloser, bit Sir Alan overlooks this. Paula was fantastic in every way and seems like she would be wonderful to work with, but, and it hurts me to say this Sir Alan can't wotk with someone who has totally no head for figures at all. Yet I would have sacked Yasmina over Paula.
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    Mister MaganeseMister Maganese Posts: 2,709
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    beauty-1 wrote: »
    Yet again I was cross with who was fired. Ben is so obnoxious and a totalloser, bit Sir Alan overlooks this. Paula was fantastic in every way and seems like she would be wonderful to work with, but, and it hurts me to say this Sir Alan can't wotk with someone who has totally no head for figures at all. Yet I would have sacked Yasmina over Paula.

    To put it bluntly, Ben does have balls - and therefore some business accumen. However, it is his own level of stupidity which feeds this. He's so lacking in the brains, that he's less fearful.

    There is direct correlation bewteen a person's level of awareness and level of fear. How scared is a child of most things? In comparison to adults, bizarrely brave.

    He's one of those people who shouts louder in order to win. But in reality, it looks like he has so much growing up to do.

    In last week's task he acted as if he was gorgeous as well, and he also has a scholarship to Sandhurst.....?

    Methinks he's just plain clueless.
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    j-laj-la Posts: 1,109
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    I think a lot of why a person may think Alan made the wrong decision is to do with the editing of the show.

    Paula was portrayed to be a good leader who made a small fatal mistake - I don't think this is the case.

    Firstly, I do not think Noorel was that bad. When they went into the boardroom and Alan asked everyone if they thought he was a good leader, they said yes and they said they enjoyed working with him. Why would they say yes if they thought he wasn't? People don't normally make others look better in the boardroom in the Apprentice.

    Howard did say later it is not Noorel's win, it is our win once out of the boardroom - but this does not mean Noorel is necessarily a bad leader - he just did not do enough. Why didn't he say this in the boardroom?

    We also only saw Noorel failing to make decisions, however their team clearly did make some decisions - and some right ones as they did sell a bit - but we did not see this. They sold £900.85. They made Norrel look a lot worse than he was, due to the editing I believe.

    Secondly, I do not think Paula was that good as others on this thread seem to think of her. When Alan asked if her team thought she was a good leader, James said she was good at motivating but her eye went off the ball at some times. Ben said she was not particularly great. Yasmina said there were some positive and some negatives to her team leadership.

    As regarding the costings, Paula never actually asked Ben to check each sum in the costings. Paula said he never controlled it - but she did not directly ask him to check her mathematical sums and how she had worked it out! Paula did the workings out herself and did not ask anyone to check that. He did check the costings in the sense that he asked how much was spent and that she was not spending too much. I therefore do not think Ben is entirely blameworthy. However, I do believe he or Yasmina should have checked her adding ups.

    This of course does not excuse the fact that Ben is a complete plonker!

    Paula actually only sold slightly more: £1,073.20.

    Alan said: Paula the one thing I think you have got right is the product. Well so it should be a good product the amount they spent on the oil! Paula had a good product - it smelt nice or whatever BUT it does not mean anything as she did not make a profit. I could go and make something nice spending loads of money - coming up with a 'good product' and then not make a profit when I sell it. Is this a good product in the commercial sense?

    He also mentions the design was good. Therefore Paula is good at design - should she stay on the Apprentice for that reason? Her skills are in creativity - is she suitable for the Apprentice?

    Alan also looks to previous tasks - what had Paula contributed before?
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    tomorrowtomorrow Posts: 32,477
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    People are saying Ben should have been fired as he was responsible for costing.

    I just watched the show again - no way was he given control of the costings - it was the girls themselves who botched it up and the correct person was fired.

    I don't understand Nick not understanding this either ... and the film make it really clear.
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    carolineglasgowcarolineglasgow Posts: 828
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    Digivate wrote: »
    He really does get rid of the wrong people.

    Yes, there was a massive mistake with the costings, but as a project manager Paula was very good. The team worked well together, and made a far better product than the other team.

    I'd say it was Yasmina who lead Paula into the ultimate mistake over fragrance costings, but Ben also played the part and his nasty streak is overwhelming.


    Totally agree with you... please see my rant at the start of "the popularisation of the Apprentice " thread.
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    EsqualitaEsqualita Posts: 3,504
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    If anyone should have been fired it was Yasmina. She miscalculated-and when Paula asked for confirmation of costings she said everything was ok.
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    Agent FAgent F Posts: 40,288
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    Kyle123 wrote: »
    Oh and also, even though Paula made the fatal mistake, Ben was there and did nothing to help. Perhaps if he had contributed more, they would have spotted the error, and then won.

    I agree. The only thing Ben has done throughout the whole competition is come up with a fugly, impractical piece of home gym kit that resulted in a loss for his team...
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    KookyKatieKookyKatie Posts: 3,031
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    AmjidS wrote: »
    Yes she asked two other people to do the finances...then she jumped and did them herself, with Yasmina. She left Ben to do the mixing. So she was correct in allocating the task to two people, but then she jumped in herself to do the tasks, which was her fatal mistake.

    She didn't ask them to do the finances at all. She asked Yasmina and Ben to keep her "on track with the costings". To me that says she planned to handle the costs herself, but wanted them to double check her figures. Even when later questioned over it, she said something about not wanting to be completely uninvolved with the costings, but that she had given Ben a responsibility that he didn't fulfil.

    She also did try to involve the other two - we saw footage of Yasmina confirming Paula's numbers, and Ben admitted he was called over to answer some basic maths questions before he "let them get on with it"'.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 67
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    Whilst not liking Ben and his track record re last week's product for which he was totally responsible I actually think Yasmina should have gone.

    Yasmina and Ben were delegated with the costings which, from what we saw, Ben took no part in as all the time he was stirring ingredients.

    Yasmina was the one who kept getting mixed up with Cedarwood and Sandalwood. As I saw it Yasmina was actually solely in charge of the costings and Paula's input was in the mix of the ingredients in line with her creating the product.

    From what we saw there appeared to be little discussion regarding the selling price.

    Paula appeared to be a good project manager and I was surprised by the comments of her team in the boardroom.

    Although Yasmina, when project manager, won her task if one reflects on that episode she did not prove herself to be a good businesswoman as she produced a sub-standard product (the low quality food) and would never get repeat business.

    Paula's product was good and would have resulted in repeat business which could have repriced and made a handsome profit in the future.
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    DavetheScotDavetheScot Posts: 16,623
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    PippaRead wrote: »
    Although Yasmina, when project manager, won her task if one reflects on that episode she did not prove herself to be a good businesswoman as she produced a sub-standard product (the low quality food) and would never get repeat business.

    Paula's product was good and would have resulted in repeat business which could have repriced and made a handsome profit in the future.

    But the PMs really do have to take account of the nature of the Apprentice as opposed to real business. Repeat business is important in real business but not on The Apprentice. Thus Yasmina won her task by keeping costs low at the expense of quality, while Paula lost by producing a quality product that couldn't recoup its costs in the time available.
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    TernTern Posts: 2,422
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    tomorrow wrote: »
    People are saying Ben should have been fired as he was responsible for costing.

    I just watched the show again - no way was he given control of the costings - it was the girls themselves who botched it up and the correct person was fired.

    I don't understand Nick not understanding this either ... and the film make it really clear.

    He should have bee fired because he did not perform a double check.

    The team leader asked two well qualified people to keep tabs on the costings.

    Yasmina made a simple mistake - that happens.

    Ben completely failed to do what was asked of him, the error that should have been caught on a check slipped through and he lost them the task.

    Ben shoud have been kicked out with a very large boot.

    Unfortunately siralun seems to be unduly swayed by gobshites who can shout their mouths off in the boardroom. :rolleyes:
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    SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    j-la wrote: »
    I think a lot of why a person may think Alan made the wrong decision is to do with the editing of the show.

    Paula was portrayed to be a good leader who made a small fatal mistake - I don't think this is the case.

    Firstly, I do not think Noorel was that bad. When they went into the boardroom and Alan asked everyone if they thought he was a good leader, they said yes and they said they enjoyed working with him. Why would they say yes if they thought he wasn't? People don't normally make others look better in the boardroom in the Apprentice.

    Howard did say later it is not Noorel's win, it is our win once out of the boardroom - but this does not mean Noorel is necessarily a bad leader - he just did not do enough. Why didn't he say this in the boardroom?

    We also only saw Noorel failing to make decisions, however their team clearly did make some decisions - and some right ones as they did sell a bit - but we did not see this. They sold £900.85. They made Norrel look a lot worse than he was, due to the editing I believe.

    Secondly, I do not think Paula was that good as others on this thread seem to think of her. When Alan asked if her team thought she was a good leader, James said she was good at motivating but her eye went off the ball at some times. Ben said she was not particularly great. Yasmina said there were some positive and some negatives to her team leadership.

    As regarding the costings, Paula never actually asked Ben to check each sum in the costings. Paula said he never controlled it - but she did not directly ask him to check her mathematical sums and how she had worked it out! Paula did the workings out herself and did not ask anyone to check that. He did check the costings in the sense that he asked how much was spent and that she was not spending too much. I therefore do not think Ben is entirely blameworthy. However, I do believe he or Yasmina should have checked her adding ups.

    This of course does not excuse the fact that Ben is a complete plonker!

    Paula actually only sold slightly more: £1,073.20.

    Alan said: Paula the one thing I think you have got right is the product. Well so it should be a good product the amount they spent on the oil! Paula had a good product - it smelt nice or whatever BUT it does not mean anything as she did not make a profit. I could go and make something nice spending loads of money - coming up with a 'good product' and then not make a profit when I sell it. Is this a good product in the commercial sense?

    He also mentions the design was good. Therefore Paula is good at design - should she stay on the Apprentice for that reason? Her skills are in creativity - is she suitable for the Apprentice?

    Alan also looks to previous tasks - what had Paula contributed before?

    Nooral was a terrible leader, and nobody in the boardroom said that he was a good leader. What they said was that they enjoyed working with him. And it was pointed out at the time that that does not necessarily mean that he was a good team leader.

    Yasmina and Ben were obviously not going to be too nice about Paula in the boardroom (even before they knew who had won the task), because they would have surely been able to correctly predict that if they lost, it would be Yasmina and Ben who she took back into the boardroom with her. Plus, I have not seen Ben be positive about anybody else yet, so I don't think he could be expected to be nice about Paula. James's comment was presumably a reference to the costings mistake, and I think he was fair enough. I like James!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,877
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    Lets face it...there is only one job at the end of this, and even that can go tits up. These people only need SAS's job right now, and most of them won't get it. What they will actually need very soon is a job similar to or better than the one they've got, or had prior to going on the Apprentice. If any prospective employers see any of these programmes, Paula's going to come out smelling of roses, while Ben is going to come out of it smelling like t*rd. So Paula made a mistake. You can bet your life any employer is going to see that a) she tried to rectify it and motivated her team to sell like crazy, and b) that she is not going to forget this mistake in a hurry. Ben just looks like a loser who is happy to do as little as possible in order to let someone else take the flak. I know who I'd employ!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,588
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    Veri wrote: »
    "Vile" might be too strong, but "a bit of an idiot, that thinks too highly of himself" is far, far too weak; so "vile" is a better choice.

    Personally I would only use the word 'vile' for people like Hitler, Ide Amin, Mussolini etc... Not for someone who is up himself. What word would you use to describe the people I mentioned? Vile IMO is way to strong a word.
    KookyKatie wrote: »
    She didn't ask them to do the finances at all. She asked Yasmina and Ben to keep her "on track with the costings". To me that says she planned to handle the costs herself, but wanted them to double check her figures. Even when later questioned over it, she said something about not wanting to be completely uninvolved with the costings, but that she had given Ben a responsibility that he didn't fulfil.

    She also did try to involve the other two - we saw footage of Yasmina confirming Paula's numbers, and Ben admitted he was called over to answer some basic maths questions before he "let them get on with it"'.

    Its the first I have heard the phrase "Keep track of". Paula did say sevral times that she delegated the tast to Yamina and Ben. However this is a moot point. As the real mistake was mixing up Sandelwood and cedarwood. If this mistake didnt happen, then they would have won.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,877
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    AmjidS wrote: »
    Personally I would only use the word 'vile' for people like Hitler, Ide Amin, Mussolini etc... Not for someone who is up himself. What word would you use to describe the people I mentioned? Vile IMO is way to strong a word.



    Its the first I have heard the phrase "Keep track of". Paula did say sevral times that she delegated the tast to Yamina and Ben. However this is a moot point. As the real mistake was mixing up Sandelwood and cedarwood. If this mistake didnt happen, then they would have won.

    I would use "evil" for Hitler, Amin, Mussolini. Simply change the words around a bit, and you get "vile" which is not quite so extreme a word. I suppose really, Ben is just horrible, which isn't too bad a word is it? I really can't see any redeeming features at all, but I expect his parents love him.
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    Bob22ABob22A Posts: 6,830
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    The bit I've bolded is surely the point though. Delegation of tasks you are weak on is all very well, but if you delegate then delegate. What Paula did was to say that the job was delegated, but then not actually delegate it. Hence the mistake was her responsibility, regardless of what decisions she made regarding delegation at the start. If I delegate a responsibility I oversee the job I've delegated, and am there to offer advice if requested, but I take a step back from the minutiae of the job. Paula failed to do this so didn't actually delegate the task at all.

    Even if we accept the delegation argument, then it should have been Yasmina who went, not Ben, since she was directly involved in the fatal error.

    As for Paula, she defended herself poorly in the boardroom. There is no way SAS, a man who made his fortune by selling cheap products, is going to employ someone who can't handle costings because their skillset is limited to that of a HR manager.


    Paula did delegate it. They failed to do the job they were tasked with. B
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,794
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    Since the woman in the first week was fired for not keeping track of costings, and when she said it wasn't her responsibility SAS 'bit her teeth out' and said she should have been forceful about pointing out their high costs, I think it was reasonable of Paula to expect those she delegated costings to to be in the firing line if costings were the issue.

    In real life if my job relied on my team making a good profit, and I was told by my team leader that she wasn't good at costings, I'd make sure I kept an eye on costings even it it hadn't been delegated to me. SAS may be looking for only one person but unless that person understands the concept of teamwork and loyalty they're going to be a liability.

    And anyway in real life of course the guy at the factory would have made sure they knew the cost of what they were buying, they even do that at Sainsbury's - 'you're grapes cost £3.00, is that OK?' - because in real life you would be straight on the phone saying 'why didn't you point this out before we bought it if you thought we'd made a mistake?'

    They put so many unrealistic restrictions around what they do, plus the fact that all the tasks are just about making money quickly regardless of quality, that I don't see how it shows what their real abilities are at all. We keep being told that selling is the main thing that matters but actually product design, costing things up and team building are equally important to sustain a business!
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    ZincubusZincubus Posts: 2,951
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    Gutted !!

    Paula was the only decent looking woman on the program !!

    :)
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