Hopefully more students and parents will stand up to the schools.we do not want a generation grown up just doing as told and following the rules without any question.
How do you know they have not questioned it?
Do you mean ....
"we do not want a generation grown up just doing as told and following the rules they don't like"
And people wonder why the Indians and Chinese are surpassing our education system, when our schools are more concerned about their damn uniform policies rather than teaching the stupid little things!
And people wonder why the Indians and Chinese are surpassing our education system, when our schools are more concerned about their damn uniform policies rather than teaching the stupid little things!
No. The schools have a uniform policy.
Parents agree to follow the policies when their child is accepted at the school.
Little Johnny or Jane demands to have an item of uniform not specified on the list,
They are then sent home.
Mum contacts the press to discuss the discrimination against their darling child.
Media kicks up a fuss for a 'good' story.
School just wants to get on with the job.
(Just an aside, have you seen the standard and the proscriptive nature of school uniforms in India and China? Thought not!!)
Why do you say I believe schools have this legal power? They are expected to follow the diktats of the Dept for Ed but obviously, these are not laws. All I was trying to point out is that there has to be some cohesion otherwise every parent would expect to be able to state what their individual child should eat and that would not be possible.
I am pleased that it would appear a compromise has been reached in your case.
Actually, I do have knowledge of how infant schools worked with relation to meals as my daughter had extensive heath problems which impacted on her diet.
The cohesion could be for those who want school meals to have them, and those that don't to let the parents provide their food. How is that difficult, or different to what has happened for years?
Our case was resolved after much unnecessary anguish, and because we are intelligent, enough to put forward a case that cant be argued with, even though the school tried very hard to make us back down.
In the end they couldn't justify at all that they could dictate what the child should eat.
It will be interesting to see how this plan of Cleggs goes, and how schools implement it.
The cohesion could be for those who want school meals to have them, and those that don't to let the parents provide their food. How is that difficult, or different to what has happened for years?
Our case was resolved after much unnecessary anguish, and because we are intelligent, enough to put forward a case that cant be argued with, even though the school tried very hard to make us back down.
In the end they couldn't justify at all that they could dictate what the child should eat.
It will be interesting to see how this plan of Cleggs goes, and how schools implement it.
So as your case was resolved on both sides, why did you feel it necessary to continue berating me? Wouldn't it have been more helpful to say that situations can be changed with give and take on both sides, which is what actually happened? You went on and on about difficulties which you knew, could be resolved.
So as your case was resolved on both sides, why did you feel it necessary to continue berating me? Wouldn't it have been more helpful to say that situations can be changed with give and take on both sides, which is what actually happened? You went on and on about difficulties which you knew, could be resolved.
They were only resolved because we were so forceful, and it took far too much effort. They would have been happy to have not given an inch if we had not been prepared to stand up to them. My fear was they could take it the way of the expelled child from earlier this year.
You actually said today that the school wouldn't budge, and the alternative was home education. That is as horrifying as some of the school solutions, and as over the top as anything can get in such a situation.
The crazy thing is, the child in our family will be in Year 3 next year, and no one will give a damn what he has to eat, because it wont be covered by the master plan.
I'm sure the fact she's wearing something 'boring' won't scar her. Many students are grateful for uniform (particularly teenagers) simply because it takes away the social pressure to dress 'right'. Teens can be judgemental and cruel and giving them another chance to be so by allowing them to judge what their peers are wearing every day isn't in their best interest.
We make them remain until after assembly at the earliest (11am) as they can miss notices/important info if they miss that and registration. Some students will have their signing out privileges revoked if they're not progressing well. Their free periods become supervised study. The extra freedoms they're given require more personal responsibility and organisation - if they show they can't do that then we'll do it for them. If they don't like that they are of course absolutely free to go to a college instead
You sound typical of the type of dictator I was alluding to earlier. In fact, worryingly it sounds like you get off on that power trip ego you've got going on.
So in other words you are deliberately making life as difficult as possible for people stopping on in 6th form in an attempt to push them into college?!
Also I was unaware you taught at the school my nephew attends, seeing as though you seem to know so much about it? What you fail to understand is this isn't about freedoms or revoked privileges, its a blanket rule covering every student.
Fortunately, I have given my nephew advice to get out and go to college, as the standard of education and tutoring is far higher. Schools these days just do the bare minimum, which is why the level of teaching has gone down so much, a fact proven by your arrogance towards your own students, I pity any child attending a class of yours, if indeed you are really a teacher and not on a wind up! ;-)
They were only resolved because we were so forceful, and it took far too much effort. They would have been happy to have not given an inch if we had not been prepared to stand up to them. My fear was they could take it the way of the expelled child from earlier this year.
You actually said today that the school wouldn't budge, and the alternative was home education. That is as horrifying as some of the school solutions, and as over the top as anything can get in such a situation.
The crazy thing is, the child in our family will be in Year 3 next year, and no one will give a damn what he has to eat, because it wont be covered by the master plan.
I said you have the choice of home education as it was obvious that you felt so strongly, not realising, of course, that the situation was sorted.
Folks will give a damn about what he eats in yr 3, it just won't be covered in the new plan.
I'm pleased the situation has been resolved. The case of the boy who was expelled was quite different-the family had gone to the press and the head felt all good relationship had gone. You didn't do that.
I wish your wee boy all the luck in the world for a successful year 2.
You sound typical of the type of dictator I was alluding to earlier. In fact, worryingly it sounds like you get off on that power trip ego you've got going on.
So in other words you are deliberately making life as difficult as possible for people stopping on in 6th form in an attempt to push them into college?!
Also I was unaware you taught at the school my nephew attends, seeing as though you seem to know so much about it? What you fail to understand is this isn't about freedoms or revoked privileges, its a blanket rule covering every student.
Fortunately, I have given my nephew advice to get out and go to college, as the standard of education and tutoring is far higher. Schools these days just do the bare minimum, which is why the level of teaching has gone down so much, a fact proven by your arrogance towards your own students, I pity any child attending a class of yours, if indeed you are really a teacher and not on a wind up! ;-)
I found maths incredibly hard at school, but incredibly easy when I was at college.
You sound typical of the type of dictator I was alluding to earlier. In fact, worryingly it sounds like you get off on that power trip ego you've got going on.
And tbh you sound like a very odd person with a grudge who doesn't really understand teenagers nor teaching.
So in other words you are deliberately making life as difficult as possible for people stopping on in 6th form in an attempt to push them into college?!
Eh? How is trying to get them into good studying habits making it hard for them? Rather seems like you didn't understand my point at all! I see it time and time again - we have a lot of very clever students who breeze through GCSEs by only working in the last month. They try that at A-Level and wonder why they get Us.
Schools tend to have far stricter rules than colleges. However the students are well aware of this when signing up and can choose where they go. For some college works. For some it really doesn't because they cannot organise themselves well enough and don't use their copious free time for study as they're supposed to. It would in fact be much easier for schools to NOT have students in on frees and not have to have supervised study but they do better when not just left to their own devices.
And if you think schools do the bare minimum then that just shows up your own ignorance.
Fortunately, I have given my nephew advice to get out and go to college, as the standard of education and tutoring is far higher. Schools these days just do the bare minimum, which is why the level of teaching has gone down so much,
Can you prove these statements ref teachig in schools and colleges?
I've taught in schools and a 6th form college. I discovered that the teaching was different, not better or worse in either.
TBH, I'd be more concerned that your relative is more concerned about not being allowed out of school rather than getting involved in his new, self-chosen courses in the first week of term.
Fortunately, I have given my nephew advice to get out and go to college, as the standard of education and tutoring is far higher. Schools these days just do the bare minimum, which is why the level of teaching has gone down so much, a fact proven by your arrogance towards your own students, I pity any child attending a class of yours, if indeed you are really a teacher and not on a wind up! ;-)
Your nephew is fortunate to have somebody so full of wisdom and balance to guide him through his life.
I said you have the choice of home education as it was obvious that you felt so strongly, not realising, of course, that the situation was sorted.
Folks will give a damn about what he eats in yr 3, it just won't be covered in the new plan.
I'm pleased the situation has been resolved. The case of the boy who was expelled was quite different-the family had gone to the press and the head felt all good relationship had gone. You didn't do that.
I wish your wee boy all the luck in the world for a successful year 2.
Thank you for that last sentence, but I don't share your views on Year 3. Many of them are taking packed lunches in, and they're not all being checked for approved food, and nor should they be. Therefore, those kids are having what they want, and are not being dictated to.
Some schools may be checking, and seizing food, which to me is disgraceful. School staff have enough to do without getting involved in stuff they are not qualified to deal with.
I feel very sorry for the boy expelled. His family probably couldn't argue the case the way we did, and were dealing with an Acting Head who seemed to want to make a stand. I suspect that in desperation they thought publicity would help, but the Head was someone incapable of applying common sense.
My view on these stories, which are becoming more of a regular occurrence, is that schools and teachers have had their powers of control over pupils and parents eroded over the years. Their way to fight back is by introducing more draconian laws and rules, which riles the kids and their parents, in a way to 'put them in their place' so to speak.
My nephew who stayed on at his school to continue his education in 6th form only this week told of new measures that his school have introduced.
Now, even on days where he doesn't have lessons and previously was allowed to return home, he has to remain on the school premises for the duration of the normal school day.
Not only that, but every child in the school has been issued with a diary, which must be filled in daily, detaling what they have learned in each lesson. Each day, random pupils will be selected to show their diary to their form tutor to check this!
Now tell me, is this a good positive way to teach children, or is it a negative approach which will only want to make the children fight authority by its draconian approach?
Wow! Seems like things haven't moved on since I was at College in the mid-90s. I left school and attended a local (1/2 hour walk) college. On Monday my first lesson started at 11:30 so in my 2nd week I turned up for that lesson then was asked by my Personal Tutor in our weekly PT class after lunch why I'd been late that day. I explained that I hadn't and had been in class. He then said I should have been in at 09:00!! When I questioned this I was told that regardless of what time I had lessons I had to be in every day between 09:00-16:00 so I could "work in the Library". I argued that I could just as easily work at home and saw no point in their rule.
I should point out that for some students, some of whom travelled quite a way, their easiest way of travelling home was to wait for the college bus at the end of the day. The college was a bit out of the way with no public bus services and the nearest main road a 20 min walk, so for them it made sense. There was another college a couple of miles away which shared bus services with mine, they had a more relaxed regime and had a lunchtime bus - my college wouldn't allow this one into the bus bay to collect pupils who would have to wait 3 hours to go home even if they had no more classes!
So yes, rules like this which are for no reason and serve no practical purpose (why have 100's of kids hanging about for all those extra hours?) will encourage rebellion. It wouldn't have been so bad but we didn't have a common room and the dining room only opened for 15 minutes at morning break and 30 minutes for lunch.
To return to this thread's original point about uniform, I still agree with that. At work I have to wear a blouse, blazer and necktie at all times, I have to tie my hair back and am only allowed one pair of earrings. I knew this (as the pupils and their parents at the school did) when I took the job. However, my work don't tell me what to eat nor do they expect me to arrive/leave hours before/after my shift. Some rules are acceptable but others just plain daft.
Forget the parents & students for a second. If 100 kids aren't listening to the most basic of things like uniform, what does that say about the school and the way it communicates?
is it the kids or the parents who buy the uniform and [usually] have a printed list of requirements to work from?
Forget the parents & students for a second. If 100 kids aren't listening to the most basic of things like uniform, what does that say about the school and the way it communicates?
Good point. Maybe school uniform shops should include a line of appropriate shoes.
Can I also add, why are girls school shoes not made to be more practical? Not all little girls want a heel or a strap and buckle and most like to run about. So many girl's school shoes also have added bows and flowers on them and a lot of schools understandably don't like that.
My son started secondary 4 days ago, and they have a new head, he has introduced new rules and has started hanging signs round pupils necks if they have the wrong shoes on, they must be leather , and todays various children were forced to wear these signs
There is uproar amongst the parents, they are worried that the children will be targeted if their parents cant afford the correct leather shoes for them.They have also started to make the children stand up whenever an adult comes into the room, and stay standing until they leave, is this the 1940s?
Also free school meal children are not allowed hot meals, only paying children can have a choice of a hot meal.they can only have a sandwich and no pudding !
My son started secondary 4 days ago, and they have a new head, he has introduced new rules and has started hanging signs round pupils necks if they have the wrong shoes on, they must be leather , and todays various children were forced to wear these signs
There is uproar amongst the parents, they are worried that the children will be targeted if their parents cant afford the correct leather shoes for them.They have also started to make the children stand up whenever an adult comes into the room, and stay standing until they leave, is this the 1940s?
Also free school meal children are not allowed hot meals, only paying children can have a choice of a hot meal.they can only have a sandwich and no pudding !
hopefully parents will stand up to that idiotic headmaster and force him out
what the? whilst I am in favor of enforcing agreed uniform rules (and yes maybe making a point of it at the start of the school year) hanging signs is crazy/
what the? whilst I am in favor of enforcing agreed uniform rules (and yes maybe making a point of it at the start of the school year) hanging signs is crazy/
The parents of the child have decided to go in and to report the school to the local authority.
Comments
Do you mean ....
"we do not want a generation grown up just doing as told and following the rules they don't like"
No. The schools have a uniform policy.
Parents agree to follow the policies when their child is accepted at the school.
Little Johnny or Jane demands to have an item of uniform not specified on the list,
They are then sent home.
Mum contacts the press to discuss the discrimination against their darling child.
Media kicks up a fuss for a 'good' story.
School just wants to get on with the job.
(Just an aside, have you seen the standard and the proscriptive nature of school uniforms in India and China? Thought not!!)
The cohesion could be for those who want school meals to have them, and those that don't to let the parents provide their food. How is that difficult, or different to what has happened for years?
Our case was resolved after much unnecessary anguish, and because we are intelligent, enough to put forward a case that cant be argued with, even though the school tried very hard to make us back down.
In the end they couldn't justify at all that they could dictate what the child should eat.
It will be interesting to see how this plan of Cleggs goes, and how schools implement it.
It's a good question, and if people allow them to get away with it, they will.
I feel like this if the kid works and behaves I don't see why their shoes really matter!
So as your case was resolved on both sides, why did you feel it necessary to continue berating me? Wouldn't it have been more helpful to say that situations can be changed with give and take on both sides, which is what actually happened? You went on and on about difficulties which you knew, could be resolved.
sadly some people are too frightened to question people in power.
They were only resolved because we were so forceful, and it took far too much effort. They would have been happy to have not given an inch if we had not been prepared to stand up to them. My fear was they could take it the way of the expelled child from earlier this year.
You actually said today that the school wouldn't budge, and the alternative was home education. That is as horrifying as some of the school solutions, and as over the top as anything can get in such a situation.
The crazy thing is, the child in our family will be in Year 3 next year, and no one will give a damn what he has to eat, because it wont be covered by the master plan.
You sound typical of the type of dictator I was alluding to earlier. In fact, worryingly it sounds like you get off on that power trip ego you've got going on.
So in other words you are deliberately making life as difficult as possible for people stopping on in 6th form in an attempt to push them into college?!
Also I was unaware you taught at the school my nephew attends, seeing as though you seem to know so much about it? What you fail to understand is this isn't about freedoms or revoked privileges, its a blanket rule covering every student.
Fortunately, I have given my nephew advice to get out and go to college, as the standard of education and tutoring is far higher. Schools these days just do the bare minimum, which is why the level of teaching has gone down so much, a fact proven by your arrogance towards your own students, I pity any child attending a class of yours, if indeed you are really a teacher and not on a wind up! ;-)
I said you have the choice of home education as it was obvious that you felt so strongly, not realising, of course, that the situation was sorted.
Folks will give a damn about what he eats in yr 3, it just won't be covered in the new plan.
I'm pleased the situation has been resolved. The case of the boy who was expelled was quite different-the family had gone to the press and the head felt all good relationship had gone. You didn't do that.
I wish your wee boy all the luck in the world for a successful year 2.
And tbh you sound like a very odd person with a grudge who doesn't really understand teenagers nor teaching.
Eh? How is trying to get them into good studying habits making it hard for them? Rather seems like you didn't understand my point at all! I see it time and time again - we have a lot of very clever students who breeze through GCSEs by only working in the last month. They try that at A-Level and wonder why they get Us.
Schools tend to have far stricter rules than colleges. However the students are well aware of this when signing up and can choose where they go. For some college works. For some it really doesn't because they cannot organise themselves well enough and don't use their copious free time for study as they're supposed to. It would in fact be much easier for schools to NOT have students in on frees and not have to have supervised study but they do better when not just left to their own devices.
And if you think schools do the bare minimum then that just shows up your own ignorance.
Can you prove these statements ref teachig in schools and colleges?
I've taught in schools and a 6th form college. I discovered that the teaching was different, not better or worse in either.
TBH, I'd be more concerned that your relative is more concerned about not being allowed out of school rather than getting involved in his new, self-chosen courses in the first week of term.
Your nephew is fortunate to have somebody so full of wisdom and balance to guide him through his life.
Thank you for that last sentence, but I don't share your views on Year 3. Many of them are taking packed lunches in, and they're not all being checked for approved food, and nor should they be. Therefore, those kids are having what they want, and are not being dictated to.
Some schools may be checking, and seizing food, which to me is disgraceful. School staff have enough to do without getting involved in stuff they are not qualified to deal with.
I feel very sorry for the boy expelled. His family probably couldn't argue the case the way we did, and were dealing with an Acting Head who seemed to want to make a stand. I suspect that in desperation they thought publicity would help, but the Head was someone incapable of applying common sense.
Wow! Seems like things haven't moved on since I was at College in the mid-90s. I left school and attended a local (1/2 hour walk) college. On Monday my first lesson started at 11:30 so in my 2nd week I turned up for that lesson then was asked by my Personal Tutor in our weekly PT class after lunch why I'd been late that day. I explained that I hadn't and had been in class. He then said I should have been in at 09:00!! When I questioned this I was told that regardless of what time I had lessons I had to be in every day between 09:00-16:00 so I could "work in the Library". I argued that I could just as easily work at home and saw no point in their rule.
I should point out that for some students, some of whom travelled quite a way, their easiest way of travelling home was to wait for the college bus at the end of the day. The college was a bit out of the way with no public bus services and the nearest main road a 20 min walk, so for them it made sense. There was another college a couple of miles away which shared bus services with mine, they had a more relaxed regime and had a lunchtime bus - my college wouldn't allow this one into the bus bay to collect pupils who would have to wait 3 hours to go home even if they had no more classes!
So yes, rules like this which are for no reason and serve no practical purpose (why have 100's of kids hanging about for all those extra hours?) will encourage rebellion. It wouldn't have been so bad but we didn't have a common room and the dining room only opened for 15 minutes at morning break and 30 minutes for lunch.
To return to this thread's original point about uniform, I still agree with that. At work I have to wear a blouse, blazer and necktie at all times, I have to tie my hair back and am only allowed one pair of earrings. I knew this (as the pupils and their parents at the school did) when I took the job. However, my work don't tell me what to eat nor do they expect me to arrive/leave hours before/after my shift. Some rules are acceptable but others just plain daft.
is it the kids or the parents who buy the uniform and [usually] have a printed list of requirements to work from?
Good point. Maybe school uniform shops should include a line of appropriate shoes.
Can I also add, why are girls school shoes not made to be more practical? Not all little girls want a heel or a strap and buckle and most like to run about. So many girl's school shoes also have added bows and flowers on them and a lot of schools understandably don't like that.
There is uproar amongst the parents, they are worried that the children will be targeted if their parents cant afford the correct leather shoes for them.They have also started to make the children stand up whenever an adult comes into the room, and stay standing until they leave, is this the 1940s?
Also free school meal children are not allowed hot meals, only paying children can have a choice of a hot meal.they can only have a sandwich and no pudding !
hopefully parents will stand up to that idiotic headmaster and force him out
The parents of the child have decided to go in and to report the school to the local authority.