By the way, did you notice that he managed to move so fast near the start of the episode that a lightning bolt was virtually standing still. They're a bit casual about him moving faster than light from a standing start given all the fuss they make about improving his speed at other times!
I was thinking the same but lightning is not as quick as light. I think the lack of 'acceleration' is just an area where we suspend disbelief
Its can depend on air conditions, but the typical lightning bolt moves at 224,000 mph -- or about 3,700 miles per second. However, the light you see from the lightning obviously travels at the speed of light, which is roughly 670 million mph, or 186,000 miles per second
My reading of that scene was that Cisco found the machine contained a hologram of a trapped Reverse Flash, after all it was standing there repeating previously said lines whilst Wells was still at dinner. So the Reverse Flash was never in fact trapped by the machine.
He realised that only Dr Wells had worked on the speedster trap (or maybe Wells and Cisco did) and so it had to be Wells who loaded the hologram. It also means Wells had access to the Reverse Flash in order to film the scene first. Throw in the general level of distrust about Wells and the fact that he was the Reverse Flash becomes a very high possibility. One confirmed when Wells then appears.
makes more sense, dont think the director and writers did a good job with it tho!
as for changing time, i mean that whole previous episode will play out differently now flash is aware he has time travelled.
cisco will live, his love wont find out hes flash and the weather wizard will go down. i am 100% sure
as for changing time, i mean that whole previous episode will play out differently now flash is aware he has time travelled.
cisco will live, his love wont find out hes flash and the weather wizard will go down. i am 100% sure
Yes but the flash that he saw running alongside him at the start was the flash who he is now and that flash was from the future and knew everything but didn't do anything during the time we watched the show to stop what happened. If this was a new timeline that could be changed by the flash coming back to change it then, the first time round, he wouldn't have seen another flash running alongside himself. The fact that he did means that the flash going back in time hasn't changed anything because the timeline we saw already involved his future self going back in time. Nothing has changed by future flash's presence, he was already present.
Having said that, given the way this show spends very little effort to make much sense from a logic point of view, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do actually let him change things but, logically, it wouldn't make sense if he was able to.
^there were not 2 Flashes at the end because the "time-travel-lore" the show is using (their "this is how things work on our show" thing) some how allows a person traveling at that super-mega speed (that Barry was traveling to protect the city from the water) to travel back in time and either merge with a previous version of himself (that younger version), or that younger version is destroyed by the presence of this super-mega-speed older version. I'm finding this hard to get my head around too as in all my proposed "this is what the show is up to and is going to do" musings always allowed for the existence of more than one Barrys at a set point in time (the future ep dealing with his attempt to save his mom would have had 3)
Also.... since at the start of the show when Barry was
>ing to the morgue and saw that 'older' version of himself, then later in the show we saw Barry, after entering the super-mega-speed zone, see that 'younger' version of himself
>ing to the morgue, well this implies the shows "time-travel-lore" involves time-loops which I really don't like cos they are, and I'm using an official scientific term here, stupid. >:(
^there were not 2 Flashes at the end because the "time-travel-lore" the show is using (their "this is how things work on our show" thing) some how allows a person traveling at that super-mega speed (that Barry was traveling to protect the city from the water) to travel back in time and either merge with a previous version of himself (that younger version), or that younger version is destroyed by the presence of this super-mega-speed older version. (
Where did you hear this?
I don't see how that can be the case because younger version flash saw older version flash running alongside him and he wasn't merged with his older version at all. He went on with his day slightly bemused but otherwise unaffected.
I think we didn't see two flashes at the end because young flash was in a hurry. Both registered the woman but young flash couldn't hang around to look around for the older flash, he just zoomed off leavng older flash by himself.
It does look like they're going down a predestination route for time travel at the moment. After all, if yellow flash hadn't gone back in time to kill the Flash before he became the Flash he would never have been trapped in the past and built the machine which caused the Flash to be created in the first place! This implies that this had always happened and that time travel doesn't change anything in this Universe.
I think we didn't see two flashes at the end because young flash was in a hurry. Both registered the woman but young flash couldn't hang around to look around for the older flash, he just zoomed off leavng older flash by himself.
The young Flash does stop for a decent amount of time in the same place as the older Flash so he should have seen him so it appears as though, as zwixxx has said, the older Flash somehow replaced the younger one in the timeline. However it may still be the case that there are two Flashes and there's some artistic licence being taken in the final scene; next week's episode should confirm.
Yes but the flash that he saw running alongside him at the start was the flash who he is now and that flash was from the future and knew everything but didn't do anything during the time we watched the show to stop what happened. If this was a new timeline that could be changed by the flash coming back to change it then, the first time round, he wouldn't have seen another flash running alongside himself. The fact that he did means that the flash going back in time hasn't changed anything because the timeline we saw already involved his future self going back in time. Nothing has changed by future flash's presence, he was already present.
Having said that, given the way this show spends very little effort to make much sense from a logic point of view, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do actually let him change things but, logically, it wouldn't make sense if he was able to.
by that logic every episode from now on would be a repeat of last weeks though.
It's all guess work based on what they show us on screen and trying to come up with something that makes sense, logically.
Without time-loops being involved, when Barry zooms to the morgue he wouldn't see the older-version. Later, when Barry does his super-zoom thing, he would travel back and see his younger-self. QED. Simples.
If Barry DID see his older self and this DOES imply time-loops involved this would mean NOTHING terminal could have happened to Barry between the morgue and the water thing, because dead-Barry couldn't super-zoom time-back to complete the loop and time-loops are fixed, unalterable events... and I don't like this at all... REALLY don't like this... (up until a time-loop show goes with this with gusto by having the Star (after seeing their future self in a TL) literally try to kill themselves and find it impossible to do so, the gun doesn't fire, he jumps off a building and lands on a lorry load of mattresses, etc etc... then I might be ok)
As for 'why no 2 Barrys' at the end. Another thought is, (for the show) in normal time there cannot exist 2 versions of the same person. But in super-zoom mode this rule does not apply, so we had the 2 Barry's able to see each other. Then when older-Barry slowed down the "no 2 versions" thing kicks in and a new time-line/Universe is created at that point with older-Barry in this one and younger-Barry remaining in the original one. - so no absorbing or destruction taking place.
So how would this affect the saving-Mom event. Originally Reverse Flash went back to kill baby-Barry, Flash went back to stop him, Mom dies instead, Reverse Flash loses powers and Flash, well we don't know what happened to him
(maybe, obeying the no 2 versions rule, there is a Universe out there with no Baby-Barry but a Dr Wells and old-Barry living as some kinda Odd Couple),
right ?!
But this time, in the future ep, if Barry goes back it'd be to SAVE Mom which is a different objective so would we thus see 2 Flashes and 2 Reverse Flashes (the ones there to save/kill the baby (the original target) and our Barry there to save the mom (the accidental victim) along with our Reverse Flash) ???
However if we only see a single Flash and a single Reverse Flash this could mean ..... well I'm kinda not sure exactly what that would mean.
Yes but the flash that he saw running alongside him at the start was the flash who he is now and that flash was from the future and knew everything but didn't do anything during the time we watched the show to stop what happened. If this was a new timeline that could be changed by the flash coming back to change it then, the first time round, he wouldn't have seen another flash running alongside himself. The fact that he did means that the flash going back in time hasn't changed anything because the timeline we saw already involved his future self going back in time. Nothing has changed by future flash's presence, he was already present.
Having said that, given the way this show spends very little effort to make much sense from a logic point of view, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do actually let him change things but, logically, it wouldn't make sense if he was able to.
Er , it's sci-fi. Logic isn't needed.
Got to say that was a brilliant episode. Thought for one moment it was a season finale:o
And of course if he's gone back in time he will save Cisco and his "girlfriend" ( the copper's daughters....oops forgotten her name) won't remember the kiss or revelation.
I'd say sci-fi generally does but Fantasy less so and Comic book fantasy tends to be a bit of both.
I think both Fantasy and Sci-Fi need some kind of internal logic, at least. Saying it's sci-fi so it doesn't need to make sense is the biggest cop-out and is a bit of a bug-bear of mine.
In any case, for all we know, it will follow that logic
I think both Fantasy and Sci-Fi need some kind of internal logic, at least. Saying it's sci-fi so it doesn't need to make sense is the biggest cop-out and is a bit of a bug-bear of mine.
In any case, for all we know, it will follow that logic
I guess I meant realism rather than logic
So how did Wells know about Mason's investigation?
Probably went through two days worth of internal struggle monologue in five minutes.
Besides, he only went from trusting him to being suspicious and wanting to look into it...it's not like he sped off to slaughter all the Jedi youngsters.
Isn't he doing everything he can NOT to change the timeline? It's why he keeps looking at that newspaper from the future in his secret room to make sure history is keeping to the right path
Vito D’Ambrosio who played Mayor Anthony Bellows in tonight's episode played the same role character in all 17 episodes of the 90s Flash although back then Bellows was a cop
Comments
I was thinking the same but lightning is not as quick as light. I think the lack of 'acceleration' is just an area where we suspend disbelief
From the Internet :
I didn't think Barry had reached 1000 mph yet.
makes more sense, dont think the director and writers did a good job with it tho!
as for changing time, i mean that whole previous episode will play out differently now flash is aware he has time travelled.
cisco will live, his love wont find out hes flash and the weather wizard will go down. i am 100% sure
Yes but the flash that he saw running alongside him at the start was the flash who he is now and that flash was from the future and knew everything but didn't do anything during the time we watched the show to stop what happened. If this was a new timeline that could be changed by the flash coming back to change it then, the first time round, he wouldn't have seen another flash running alongside himself. The fact that he did means that the flash going back in time hasn't changed anything because the timeline we saw already involved his future self going back in time. Nothing has changed by future flash's presence, he was already present.
Having said that, given the way this show spends very little effort to make much sense from a logic point of view, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do actually let him change things but, logically, it wouldn't make sense if he was able to.
was at the start present day flash stopped and saw cab girl .....after he saw the "future flash"
Then when flash went back in time he stopped at exactly the same place so why didn't we see the two flashes at the same time ?
I don't even know if I explained that right
Also.... since at the start of the show when Barry was
>ing to the morgue and saw that 'older' version of himself, then later in the show we saw Barry, after entering the super-mega-speed zone, see that 'younger' version of himself
>ing to the morgue, well this implies the shows "time-travel-lore" involves time-loops which I really don't like cos they are, and I'm using an official scientific term here, stupid. >:(
Where did you hear this?
I don't see how that can be the case because younger version flash saw older version flash running alongside him and he wasn't merged with his older version at all. He went on with his day slightly bemused but otherwise unaffected.
I think we didn't see two flashes at the end because young flash was in a hurry. Both registered the woman but young flash couldn't hang around to look around for the older flash, he just zoomed off leavng older flash by himself.
It does look like they're going down a predestination route for time travel at the moment. After all, if yellow flash hadn't gone back in time to kill the Flash before he became the Flash he would never have been trapped in the past and built the machine which caused the Flash to be created in the first place! This implies that this had always happened and that time travel doesn't change anything in this Universe.
The young Flash does stop for a decent amount of time in the same place as the older Flash so he should have seen him so it appears as though, as zwixxx has said, the older Flash somehow replaced the younger one in the timeline. However it may still be the case that there are two Flashes and there's some artistic licence being taken in the final scene; next week's episode should confirm.
by that logic every episode from now on would be a repeat of last weeks though.
the timeline WILL play out differently.
Without time-loops being involved, when Barry zooms to the morgue he wouldn't see the older-version. Later, when Barry does his super-zoom thing, he would travel back and see his younger-self. QED. Simples.
If Barry DID see his older self and this DOES imply time-loops involved this would mean NOTHING terminal could have happened to Barry between the morgue and the water thing, because dead-Barry couldn't super-zoom time-back to complete the loop and time-loops are fixed, unalterable events... and I don't like this at all... REALLY don't like this... (up until a time-loop show goes with this with gusto by having the Star (after seeing their future self in a TL) literally try to kill themselves and find it impossible to do so, the gun doesn't fire, he jumps off a building and lands on a lorry load of mattresses, etc etc... then I might be ok)
As for 'why no 2 Barrys' at the end. Another thought is, (for the show) in normal time there cannot exist 2 versions of the same person. But in super-zoom mode this rule does not apply, so we had the 2 Barry's able to see each other. Then when older-Barry slowed down the "no 2 versions" thing kicks in and a new time-line/Universe is created at that point with older-Barry in this one and younger-Barry remaining in the original one. - so no absorbing or destruction taking place.
So how would this affect the saving-Mom event. Originally Reverse Flash went back to kill baby-Barry, Flash went back to stop him, Mom dies instead, Reverse Flash loses powers and Flash, well we don't know what happened to him
But this time, in the future ep, if Barry goes back it'd be to SAVE Mom which is a different objective so would we thus see 2 Flashes and 2 Reverse Flashes (the ones there to save/kill the baby (the original target) and our Barry there to save the mom (the accidental victim) along with our Reverse Flash) ???
However if we only see a single Flash and a single Reverse Flash this could mean ..... well I'm kinda not sure exactly what that would mean.
Er , it's sci-fi. Logic isn't needed.
Got to say that was a brilliant episode. Thought for one moment it was a season finale:o
And of course if he's gone back in time he will save Cisco and his "girlfriend" ( the copper's daughters....oops forgotten her name) won't remember the kiss or revelation.
I'd say sci-fi generally does but Fantasy less so and Comic book fantasy tends to be a bit of both.
I think both Fantasy and Sci-Fi need some kind of internal logic, at least. Saying it's sci-fi so it doesn't need to make sense is the biggest cop-out and is a bit of a bug-bear of mine.
In any case, for all we know, it will follow that logic
Yup. I thought they handled the time travel quite well, and showed that by making one change to the time line it can have a big knock on effect.
Here you go.
Ha ha, now I have a gun that turns things into gold I can finally be rich once I put myself in harms way to steal from the mob.
Oh hold on...
So how did Wells know about Mason's investigation?
Plus Barry turned on Wells pretty quickly...
Probably went through two days worth of internal struggle monologue in five minutes.
Besides, he only went from trusting him to being suspicious and wanting to look into it...it's not like he sped off to slaughter all the Jedi youngsters.
Isn't he doing everything he can NOT to change the timeline? It's why he keeps looking at that newspaper from the future in his secret room to make sure history is keeping to the right path
Oh, and even I got "I am your father"; but that was the only one