Well, when I started primary school, it was all English-only, and by the time I left, it was one hour per week in Welsh, and our teachers used to encourage things like answering the register in Welsh. I left primary school in 1995.
At High School, Welsh was compulsory, but I was the last year group that could drop it at the end of Year 9. All years after me had to study it to GCSE standard at the end of year 11.
There always were Welsh schools for parents who wanted their children to learn Welsh. There is no reason to impose it on the rest of the population of Wales. 80% of the people of Wales speak little or no Welsh, and for the most part, don't want their children wasting their time learning a dying language anyway. When I dropped Welsh, I studied French and Spanish to GCSE standard, and as a result, can communicate with far more people worldwide. It also looks a lot more impressive on my CV.
The influence Welsh language fanatics have over life in Wales has increased hugely since the 1970s. The influence the 'Crachach' (Welsh language clique families) have over the arts, media and political life of Wales is also disproportionate.
If I had children, I'd leave Wales like a shot. I can see the direction the country is heading in and I don't like it one bit.
Personally, although as a non-Welsh person I think it's a postive thing that Welsh is spoken and taught in Wales more and more. However the bit in bold? if you wouldn't mind elaborating on it ...
I can't believe they have the nerve to charge the entrance fee either.
Depends which bridge. If it's the old bridge where you pay before crossing the bridge, you are still in England by a couple of miles. The 'second Severn crossing' as it's known, you pay at the end of the bridge so you are already in Wales. Pedant mode off.;-)
Being born and brought up in south Wales I sadly agree with the OP that south Wales is running into the buffers, and will be leaving soon to live in the English midlands, although my employment will continue to be based in Wales. It hurts to do it as this is my home, but I need and want a better quality of life than south Wales can offer.
I passed a place called port talbot on the train, and that looked an interesting but broken place. And Swansea seems a city of contrasts.
Broken is a good description. There's a lot of life still left in south Wales but a lot of apathy and bad feeling also.
Some parts of Swansea are lovely, but many years of ineptitude and corruption in the local authority have left the town centre in a mess. Its about 15-20 years behind where it should be. Many people tend to bypass Swansea entirely and go shopping in Cardiff to the east or Carmarthen and the Parc Trostre centre in Llanelli to the west. Sad.
To the people leaving for better things good luck you - it has always been thus. The best of the Welsh have always moved out leaving behind a void that is usually filled by delinquents.
But South Wales is still a nice place to live with a lot less violence than you would find in areas of England, it doesn't suffer from the urban sprawl that inflicts England, it is still a country full of lush countryside that fills me with pleasure when I walk through it. (most of it actually).
As a child I spent many holidays there. In the 1970s I took my own children there several times.
It was a wonderful part of the country full of lovely people . Not any more.
I spent two weeks at a conference. I was upset to see what it had become. Full of the underclass with their underclass ways. I saw parents dropping of children still in their pyjamas (the parents!). Everywhere was full of people with their "f*ck you" attitude. In a cafe their were MOTHERS swearing at their young children (unforgivable) . Every street seems to have off licence and betting shop. And the filthy streets!
I know things have deteriorated throughout the UK, but South Wales seems is dreadful, I have no problem describing it as the sh*t on Britains shoe.
Did you sit there and think - I want to write the biggest load of crap i can possibly fit into one thread and post it on DS ?
What you describe is happening all over the country !
Agree with the poster about basically corruption and mismanagement of our town centres. We have the same people moaning about Parc Trostre (large out of town shopping area) who were imposing stupid Anti car, and crippling the town centre trade for years, and their only answer was "like it or leave", well most shops have now taken the "leave" attitude.
Interesting post above about Llanelli being voted the second worst town in the UK.
I quite agree. Shocking town planning there. They basically built two ghastly windswept retail parks in Trostre and Penberton... sucking all commerce and footfall out of the town.
Too late trying to revamp it with Ffwrnes (etc) now - the town is a graveyard.
I'd call south Wales a shit hole in general (*) and living in Luton, that is saying something. But, in it's own way, it is a wonderful shit hole and the people there are second to none in term of friendliness (generally).
Generalization I know, but I had a bloody good time the three years I lived there. Some ladies will testify to that. Well, they might.
The people were extraordinarily nice, kind and would do anything for anyone, including total strangers. Since the 80's all that has been lost.
Sorry to hear that. The first time I set foot in south Wales was 1985. Dad and I were driving around looking for somewhere to stay for the night and we didn't know the area at all. A middle aged lady, not only gave us directions to a local B&B, but offered to accompany us to where we were going. When we got to the B&B we had a warm welcome, plus a huge (and I mean huge) English breakfast the next morning. Somewhere in Graigwen, Pontypridd. We didn't eat for the the rest of the day, as the meal was so big. And all for a few quid.
Not sure I agree with the poster who said Barry has improved. The town centre is pretty derelict besides coffee shops and charity shops and the only development down the Waterfront is Morrisons & flats. They will however be building that area up soon so it should be much nicer over the next couple of years.
I just wish the council would invest more in regenerating the town centre (without spending £30k on "modern art" bollards!!)
South Wales is no worse than some of the English Conurbations I have visited. Perhaps the OP still wants to see the world through the rose tinted glasses of a child?
2. There's the issue of education, which I think IS exclusive to Wales. In the years since devolution, there has been a much greater emphasis on developing a 'chip-on-the-shoulder' Welsh identity in schools and the Welsh language. It's done in such a way as to install in young people a subtle dislike of our English neighbours that never used to exist. Between the mid-sixteenth century and the mid-eighteenth century Wales had practically no history at all, and even before that it was the history of rural brigands who have been ennobled by being called princes. However, this is now played up in schools to create an artificially 'Welshy' identity.
what a load of shite, no history = just because you probably been taught English I mean British history at school you think we have No history, go to the library you can even find our history on the internet Wiki is your friend there , you might even learn a thing or too.
also to the original o/p what part did you go too, just generalising and assuming that the whole of the south is a cesspit, I've been to some shiteholes over the border so by that the whole of England is a shite hole by your standard.
I live in Llanelli the place voted 2nd as the worst town in UK, once you get past the meaw heads,pissed up Polish, swearing single mothers, dog shite pavements etc...my town is quite nice place to live also its as some of the nicest people you could ever meet and if I won the lottery I would still live here.
2. There's the issue of education, which I think IS exclusive to Wales. In the years since devolution, there has been a much greater emphasis on developing a 'chip-on-the-shoulder' Welsh identity in schools and the Welsh language. It's done in such a way as to install in young people a subtle dislike of our English neighbours that never used to exist. Between the mid-sixteenth century and the mid-eighteenth century Wales had practically no history at all, and even before that it was the history of rural brigands who have been ennobled by being called princes. However, this is now played up in schools to create an artificially 'Welshy' identity.
what a load of shite, no history = just because you probably been taught English I mean British history at school you think we have No history, go to the library you can even find our history on the internet Wiki is your friend there , you might even learn a thing or too.
also to the original o/p what part did you go too, just generalising and assuming that the whole of the south is a cesspit, I've been to some shiteholes over the border so by that the whole of England is a shite hole by your standard.
I live in Llanelli the place voted 2nd as the worst town in UK, once you get past the meaw heads,pissed up Polish, swearing single mothers, dog shite pavements etc...my town is quite nice place to live also its as some of the nicest people you could ever meet and if I won the lottery I would still live here.
I served 8 years+ in Station Road in the mid 90s and in then in the 00's what a difference a few years make went from being allright place to live in, in the mid 90's. then in the 00's dolie kids who smoked the dope, pawn shop a few doors up where the junkies hanged out only good thing was KwikSave just across the road,us Turks are better than thoses Jacks over the bridge!! lol:)
I live in Llanelli the place voted 2nd as the worst town in UK, once you get past the meaw heads,pissed up Polish, swearing single mothers, dog shite pavements etc...my town is quite nice place to live also its as some of the nicest people you could ever meet and if I won the lottery I would still live here.
Turks rule hey?!
I must say there are parts of Llanelli that are lovely, with nice parks and well-planned streets e.g. the Parc Howard area, Old Road, Pen-y-Fai, the nice semis near Stradey.
The sea is also nearby so when it's sunny, it has that light you only get on the coastline.
Well seeing as the teaching (and learning) of Welsh as a second language is so woeful, I don't think you need concern yourself. I think the teaching of Welsh in south Wales English medium schools (in old Glam authorities and Gwent) averages at about one hour a week, with the majority of schools entering their pupils for the worthless GCSE short course (if they enter them at all, as it's not even compulsory).
No-one 'imposes' Welsh medium ed either. Parental demand drives it. If anything, it has taken years and years of campaigning, lobbying and begging authorities like Cardiff City to increase provision, as Welsh schools are permanently oversubscribed.
Regarding French and Spanish - well learn them as well. I did... well French and German actually. It says something that one would rather learn the language of another country than even grasp the rudimentary basics of the language that was born, and developed uniquely in one's own country. It amounts to a degree of self-loathing which is rather disturbing in my opinion.
Welsh is NOT the language of Wales. English is. 80% of the people of Wales speak little or no Welsh. Pretty much everyone speaks English. I wished to learn French and Spanish because I knew it would help me communicate with people from other parts of the world, would broaden my cultural horizons, and would help my career prospects.
Personally, although as a non-Welsh person I think it's a postive thing that Welsh is spoken and taught in Wales more and more. However the bit in bold? if you wouldn't mind elaborating on it ...
I'll address your point first: The Welsh language receives enormous subsidies to keep it alive throughout Wales, even though it hasn't been widespread in many parts of Wales for several centuries. Good luck to the people in west and parts of north Wales who have a long history of speaking Welsh, but in most of the rest of Wales the language is not and has not been spoken widely for many generations. In a time when money is tight, I can think of far better uses of it than to impose a pretty useless, parochial language on people who don't want it.
Why would I want to leave Wales?
1. I have seen the influence of Welsh language fanatics increase in my lifetime. Whether it was Gwynfor Evans threatening to starve himself to death for the creation of S4C (depriving much of Wales of the British Channel 4 for many decades), or bully boys painting over English-only road signs, or school inspectors looking for evidence of 'Welsh being used outside the classroom' in towns where English is the only language you normally hear, I've had enough.
2. Devolution has been a disaster for Wales. It's effectively a one-party state. People blindly vote Labour in large parts of Wales, guaranteeing they'll always be the largest party in the Assembly. People in much of Wales like to blame Margaret Thatcher for all their woes, rather than Arthur Scargill and his illegal strike, and lack of compromise on his part (his demands during the 1984/85 strike were absurd if you bother to examine them). Oh and by the way, Harold Wilson closed far more mines than Margaret Thatcher ever did! FACT!
3. There isn't much of an entrepreneurial 'get up and go' culture in South Wales. Most people either work for the state in some capacity or work in very low-level, retail jobs. I wouldn't want to bring up children in that sort of environment.
2. There's the issue of education, which I think IS exclusive to Wales. In the years since devolution, there has been a much greater emphasis on developing a 'chip-on-the-shoulder' Welsh identity in schools and the Welsh language. It's done in such a way as to install in young people a subtle dislike of our English neighbours that never used to exist. Between the mid-sixteenth century and the mid-eighteenth century Wales had practically no history at all, and even before that it was the history of rural brigands who have been ennobled by being called princes. However, this is now played up in schools to create an artificially 'Welshy' identity.
what a load of shite, no history = just because you probably been taught English I mean British history at school you think we have No history, go to the library you can even find our history on the internet Wiki is your friend there , you might even learn a thing or too.
also to the original o/p what part did you go too, just generalising and assuming that the whole of the south is a cesspit, I've been to some shiteholes over the border so by that the whole of England is a shite hole by your standard.
I live in Llanelli the place voted 2nd as the worst town in UK, once you get past the meaw heads,pissed up Polish, swearing single mothers, dog shite pavements etc...my town is quite nice place to live also its as some of the nicest people you could ever meet and if I won the lottery I would still live here.
You're wrong - I was taught a LOT of Welsh history at school, many thanks to the influence the Crachach now have on the education system. Most of it was fairly insignificant nonsense, though. I got the quote: "Between the mid-sixteenth century and the mid-eighteenth century Wales had practically no history at all, and even before that it was the history of rural brigands who have been ennobled by being called princes." from Neil Kinnock no less! He said that in 1979 when he was against devolution in that referendum.
Welsh history has given the world very little in terms of philosophy, art and literature. I'm not a fan of it.
Comments
Personally, although as a non-Welsh person I think it's a postive thing that Welsh is spoken and taught in Wales more and more. However the bit in bold? if you wouldn't mind elaborating on it ...
Depends which bridge. If it's the old bridge where you pay before crossing the bridge, you are still in England by a couple of miles. The 'second Severn crossing' as it's known, you pay at the end of the bridge so you are already in Wales. Pedant mode off.;-)
It's also a hugely varied area. Pembrokeshire, parts of Carmarthenshire, the Brecons, the Wye valley and Ceredigion are all lovely.
I'd move to Pembrokeshire like a shot if I could get a job there.
Some parts of Swansea are lovely, but many years of ineptitude and corruption in the local authority have left the town centre in a mess. Its about 15-20 years behind where it should be. Many people tend to bypass Swansea entirely and go shopping in Cardiff to the east or Carmarthen and the Parc Trostre centre in Llanelli to the west. Sad.
Not if you use the M50:D
But South Wales is still a nice place to live with a lot less violence than you would find in areas of England, it doesn't suffer from the urban sprawl that inflicts England, it is still a country full of lush countryside that fills me with pleasure when I walk through it. (most of it actually).
Happy to live here despite the poverty.
Did you sit there and think - I want to write the biggest load of crap i can possibly fit into one thread and post it on DS ?
What you describe is happening all over the country !
I quite agree. Shocking town planning there. They basically built two ghastly windswept retail parks in Trostre and Penberton... sucking all commerce and footfall out of the town.
Too late trying to revamp it with Ffwrnes (etc) now - the town is a graveyard.
I am from South wales and I witnessed it happening first hand.
The people were extraordinarily nice, kind and would do anything for anyone, including total strangers. Since the 80's all that has been lost.
Generalization I know, but I had a bloody good time the three years I lived there. Some ladies will testify to that. Well, they might.
(*) The urban areas, that is.
A bridge too far, eh!
Sorry to hear that. The first time I set foot in south Wales was 1985. Dad and I were driving around looking for somewhere to stay for the night and we didn't know the area at all. A middle aged lady, not only gave us directions to a local B&B, but offered to accompany us to where we were going. When we got to the B&B we had a warm welcome, plus a huge (and I mean huge) English breakfast the next morning. Somewhere in Graigwen, Pontypridd. We didn't eat for the the rest of the day, as the meal was so big. And all for a few quid.
I just wish the council would invest more in regenerating the town centre (without spending £30k on "modern art" bollards!!)
Where I live there is no need to speak Welsh either, just Polish.
what a load of shite, no history = just because you probably been taught English I mean British history at school you think we have No history, go to the library you can even find our history on the internet Wiki is your friend there , you might even learn a thing or too.
also to the original o/p what part did you go too, just generalising and assuming that the whole of the south is a cesspit, I've been to some shiteholes over the border so by that the whole of England is a shite hole by your standard.
I live in Llanelli the place voted 2nd as the worst town in UK, once you get past the meaw heads,pissed up Polish, swearing single mothers, dog shite pavements etc...my town is quite nice place to live also its as some of the nicest people you could ever meet and if I won the lottery I would still live here.
Gotta love Turk town see boyo!
I served 8 years+ in Station Road in the mid 90s and in then in the 00's what a difference a few years make went from being allright place to live in, in the mid 90's. then in the 00's dolie kids who smoked the dope, pawn shop a few doors up where the junkies hanged out only good thing was KwikSave just across the road,us Turks are better than thoses Jacks over the bridge!! lol:)
Turks rule hey?!
I must say there are parts of Llanelli that are lovely, with nice parks and well-planned streets e.g. the Parc Howard area, Old Road, Pen-y-Fai, the nice semis near Stradey.
The sea is also nearby so when it's sunny, it has that light you only get on the coastline.
Llanelli has the richest chapel architecture in the whole of Wales imo, they are beautiful:
http://www.peoplescollectionwales.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/item_detail/public/images/2014/February/DI2005_0025.jpg?itok=5Cedioqp
http://www.favouritechurches.org.uk/assets/images/churches/churches_huw_edwards.jpg
Capel Newydd is my favourite:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8284/7711529756_182da64f3d_z.jpg
It's a real shame the commercial centre of the town has been left to decay though.
Welsh is NOT the language of Wales. English is. 80% of the people of Wales speak little or no Welsh. Pretty much everyone speaks English. I wished to learn French and Spanish because I knew it would help me communicate with people from other parts of the world, would broaden my cultural horizons, and would help my career prospects.
I'll address your point first: The Welsh language receives enormous subsidies to keep it alive throughout Wales, even though it hasn't been widespread in many parts of Wales for several centuries. Good luck to the people in west and parts of north Wales who have a long history of speaking Welsh, but in most of the rest of Wales the language is not and has not been spoken widely for many generations. In a time when money is tight, I can think of far better uses of it than to impose a pretty useless, parochial language on people who don't want it.
Why would I want to leave Wales?
1. I have seen the influence of Welsh language fanatics increase in my lifetime. Whether it was Gwynfor Evans threatening to starve himself to death for the creation of S4C (depriving much of Wales of the British Channel 4 for many decades), or bully boys painting over English-only road signs, or school inspectors looking for evidence of 'Welsh being used outside the classroom' in towns where English is the only language you normally hear, I've had enough.
2. Devolution has been a disaster for Wales. It's effectively a one-party state. People blindly vote Labour in large parts of Wales, guaranteeing they'll always be the largest party in the Assembly. People in much of Wales like to blame Margaret Thatcher for all their woes, rather than Arthur Scargill and his illegal strike, and lack of compromise on his part (his demands during the 1984/85 strike were absurd if you bother to examine them). Oh and by the way, Harold Wilson closed far more mines than Margaret Thatcher ever did! FACT!
3. There isn't much of an entrepreneurial 'get up and go' culture in South Wales. Most people either work for the state in some capacity or work in very low-level, retail jobs. I wouldn't want to bring up children in that sort of environment.
You're wrong - I was taught a LOT of Welsh history at school, many thanks to the influence the Crachach now have on the education system. Most of it was fairly insignificant nonsense, though. I got the quote: "Between the mid-sixteenth century and the mid-eighteenth century Wales had practically no history at all, and even before that it was the history of rural brigands who have been ennobled by being called princes." from Neil Kinnock no less! He said that in 1979 when he was against devolution in that referendum.
Welsh history has given the world very little in terms of philosophy, art and literature. I'm not a fan of it.