Yes, we had very close ties with Tatung, nice people and great products - a sad day when they folded
As I understand it Dr. Lin (who ran Tatung UK) moved back to Korea, leaving his wife (or ex wife?) in charge a few years before they ended.
From this website it looks like Tatung joined the likes of Panasonic on the manufacturing exodus to the Czech Republic. However, as the most recent news item is two years old it could be the company no longer exists.
There is no UK address suggesting that if it still exists, TVs are not being imported to the UK.
On the Sony front, it recently sold a large European LCD TV factory to a Taiwanese company so nothing is what it seems, though I assume that Sony will still do the R&D. www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE62U08020100331
On a more positive UK note, UK-based digibox manufacturers seem to be doing well, though the manufacturing is outsourced.
Pace and Sky-owned Amstrad lead the way and there are a host of smaller ones including TVOnics, 3View plus Digital Vision (who do the Grundig USB PVR).
And, British TV assembly has made a comeback courtesy of Cello in NE England.
I repair whitegoods.
In an ironic twist Argos are putting "Bush" on some Vestel washing machines and many people say they bought it because they knew the name from old radios and tvs:mad:
The Bush name has been used for cheap Chinese-built products for (I would guess) at least 20 years- it was owned by Alba (*) until they sold it to Argos. Shows that this isn't a new trick, though it's definitely more prevalent nowadays.
I remember my brother buying a cheap "Bush" TV in the early-90s and my Mum mentioning something them having a good reputation in the 1960s or whatever, not realising it had sod all to do with the modern Bush.
Speaking of brands, this phenomenon goes beyond the consumer electronics market.
Did you know that the modern "Atari" games distributor is really just the formerly-named Infogrames, and has nothing to do with the original- and defunct- Atari beyond having bought the name and some rights a few years back?
(*) In fact, the Alba we all know and "love" is itself just a distributor that bought out the name of an older brand. And it's not even called "Alba" any more, since they sold that brand to Argos too. :rolleyes:
From this website it looks like Tatung joined the likes of Panasonic on the manufacturing exodus to the Czech Republic. However, as the most recent news item is two years old it could be the company no longer exists.
That was more than two years ago, Tatung folded completely a fair while back now.
The sets which came from Eastern Europe (I didn't think it was the Czech Republic?, I thought it was Lithuania?) weren't really much cop.
Justin,
Post 2001 Indesit (Merloni), (not Antonio Merloni...Servis) started to introduce their electronics to the Hotpoint designs and then the tubs etc. The downfall of the brand started then with reliability problems rife..nice for me. They have now shifted all washing machine, dryer and cookers to Poland and expect an even worse product. I would choose Vestel over them anyday and at least they are relatively cheap to repair.
I've just got myself a 15 yr old Hotpoint to recon for myself:D
Update.. some Bush machines are Haier, Chinese Junk and not the type that floats 'cos they lasted years.
This was a design I remember from the 80s and I always fancied a pair. They would be awesome as part of a Home Cinema set up today.
They were more of a gimmick than anything else - if you wanted some you should have bought some from us way back then When Grundig shut their Irish operation (because the IRA murdered the German who ran it) we bought the entire stock instead of it been shipped back to Germany.
As a result we were selling the stuff off at incredible prices, something like 20% of the original cost - we had quite a large number of those speakers. They didn't sound too bad, but none of the staff here bought any - and we got the stuff even cheaper.
That was more than two years ago, Tatung folded completely a fair while back now.
The sets which came from Eastern Europe (I didn't think it was the Czech Republic?, I thought it was Lithuania?) weren't really much cop.
I've not seen Lithuania mentioned, both Wikipedia and the Tatung websites say Czech Republic.
It appears that Tatung are still going in some form, global financials are up to date and there are recent investor presentations. Yet other news stops in 2007.
UK Companies House still has a live UK company registered and filing accounts but in February this year its registered office moved to Birmingham, I think to an accountants. Its turnover is less than a £1m, a contrast to 1999 when it turned over £114m.
Justin,
Post 2001 Indesit (Merloni), (not Antonio Merloni...Servis) started to introduce their electronics to the Hotpoint designs and then the tubs etc. The downfall of the brand started then with reliability problems rife..nice for me. They have now shifted all washing machine, dryer and cookers to Poland and expect an even worse product. I would choose Vestel over them anyday and at least they are relatively cheap to repair.
I've just got myself a 15 yr old Hotpoint to recon for myself:D
Update.. some Bush machines are Haier, Chinese Junk and not the type that floats 'cos they lasted years.
When I needed a new WMC in the top flat (which has severe access problems for a WMC....) I did a bit of research.
I needed a WMC which could be fixed in situ, not just written off and a new one bought. I was advised to buy the last of the real Hotpoints, so I bought a "reconditioned" WMC52.
WMC engineers tell me anyone can mend one of those, and you don`t need a bleedin` laptop to do so.....
Since then it did actually develop a slight leak, but I got it fixed ( a new pump or something) for £30 including parts !
It`s like TVs I suppose, older TVs are FAR easier to repair than newer ones......
Mine's a WM63 but structurally just the same, built to last, be repairable and cheap to fix and made by a mainly British company.
Hope yours lasts for as long as mine will Justin.
PS we have gone a bit off topic;)
Mine's a WM63 but structurally just the same, built to last, be repairable and cheap to fix and made by a mainly British company.
Hope yours lasts for as long as mine will Justin.
PS we have gone a bit off topic;)
I bleedin` hope so, because getting a WMC up those narrow and steep stairs was not something I want to have to do a gain in a hurry.........
Tatung, takes me back to my days at Comet, Mick the Tatung driver, nice guy always chatty. Merv the Creda driver, who after years managed to win a football competition and the two old guys driving the Servis truck. We'd start off whistling "When a child is born" jsut to get them whistling it! Happy days. (I even signed a Sharp vertical turntable box "Gary Bailey" in the stores once as a treat for one lucky buyer:D
My son bought a Bush TV, just cheap and nasty, in the 1960 it would have been a far better quality product.
Some of the old manufacturers of TVs from the 1960s I can remember — Sobell, Pye, Ekco, Alba, Stella, Invicta, McMichael, Marconiphone, HMV, Ferguson, Decca, Baird, Murphy, Sanyo, GEC.
Again, years ago, Wharfedale speakers were second to none
I very much doubt a 60s Bush TV would compare favourably with a Bush-badged Vestel or similar set of today.
TVs in the 60s and 70s were notoriously unreliable, particularly the domestic / European brands. Things started to change in the late 60s when Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi and Panasonic started to arrive on the UK market and their products were vastly more reliable.
This is what caused the decline of the domestic brands, many of which you list above, with the result that where they are used, it is as a badge on unbranded products.
Having said that, nobody is offering the budget products and pretending they are as good as a Panasonic/Samsung/Sony - but then again they're usually 30% cheaper than the big brands.
Great thread to read ... Brings back memories for me, living in Fareham driving past the Ferguson factory, they used to have really cool Christmas lights. As a child someone looked after me sometimes in the hols, and her husband worked for Fergusons and he used to have the latest set for me to beta test for him ;-)
if you're buying "TDK" media, it's not really made by TDK (who still exist though), it's made by Imation.
Not a problem at all, as "Imation" is a 3M (Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing) brand. 3M were the makers of "Scotch" blank VHS videocassettes - the best sold!
I've also always found "Imation" blank CD-Rs satisfactory.
I very much doubt a 60s Bush TV would compare favourably with a Bush-badged Vestel or similar set of today.
TVs in the 60s and 70s were notoriously unreliable, particularly the domestic / European brands. Things started to change in the late 60s when Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi and Panasonic started to arrive on the UK market and their products were vastly more reliable.
This is what caused the decline of the domestic brands, many of which you list above, with the result that where they are used, it is as a badge on unbranded products.
Having said that, nobody is offering the budget products and pretending they are as good as a Panasonic/Samsung/Sony - but then again they're usually 30% cheaper than the big brands.
Since we don`t mend LCDs/Plasmas we don`t really repair TVs any more, but when we did I`d far rather work on (say) a Vestel 11AK12 than any Sony/Panasonic/Toshiba !
You can tell which sets engineers prefer to work on because they`re the first ones taken of the "to do" pile, and in our workshop it was always the Vestels and similar type products which went first. Conversely, the Panasonic Euros were always left till they absolutely had to be repaired `cos they`ve been in for days...... The same applied to many of the other established make TVs.
My step father had an office equipment business back in the 60's and sold Grundig and Phillips gear and good stuff it was too. Grundig made some really good radio's back then; I used a Satellit radio for many years, a wonderful radio.
I also remember radio's like the Yacht Boy and tape recorders from the early TK range through to I think a TK121 IIRC plus the office recorders.
I very much doubt a 60s Bush TV would compare favourably with a Bush-badged Vestel or similar set of today.
TVs in the 60s and 70s were notoriously unreliable, particularly the domestic / European brands. Things started to change in the late 60s when Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi and Panasonic started to arrive on the UK market and their products were vastly more reliable.
This is what caused the decline of the domestic brands, many of which you list above, with the result that where they are used, it is as a badge on unbranded products.
I've been doing TV repairs for many years, certainly sets are more reliable now (with the exceptions of the cheap suoermarket rubbish). But Bush/Murphy, Thorn Group etc. were all pretty good reliable TV's - once valves had disappeared, valve had automatic failing built-in
Certainly back then you weren't hrowing 15 month old TV's away, like the supermarket jobs over the last 7 or 8 years.
I've been doing TV repairs for many years, certainly sets are more reliable now (with the exceptions of the cheap suoermarket rubbish). But Bush/Murphy, Thorn Group etc. were all pretty good reliable TV's - once valves had disappeared, valve had automatic failing built-in
Certainly back then you weren't hrowing 15 month old TV's away, like the supermarket jobs over the last 7 or 8 years.
You're right- you probably didn't throw away sets at less than two years old - but that was because the way they were designed meant the components could be replaced.
I guess what's changed is the way this kind of product is now manufactured - basically you'll have a couple of boards which have all their components sealed onto the board - a bit like a PC motherboard. Whereas 20 or 30 years ago, each component could easily be removed and replaced.
The other reason is that relatively speaking TVs are far cheaper than they've ever been before - so people don't expect a £200 TV to last many years. Whereas 20 years ago you'd have been looking at £ 400 to buy a 21" branded set (Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic et al) and £300 to buy an unbranded one.
I think the other factor which means people don't mind cheaper products failing sooner is that the technology is now moving on so quickly, they're pretty much guaranteed they'll buy something new which is far better. This is a recent phenomenon though - look at the development of TV from the 1950s:
In 1955 you'd have bought a B&W CRT set with VHF.
By 1965 you'd have bought a B&W CRT set - probably dual-standard, but in most people's eyes nothing that significant.
By 1975 you might have bought a colour CRT set - a bit more of a development.
By 1985 you'd probably have bought a colour CRT set - likely to have a remote control, possible Teletext.
But overall nothing that significant from 1975-85.
By 1995 you'd probably be buying a colour CRT set with remote, teletext and possibly a NICAM set - though it depended on your budget. So again, nothing that different. The only change which was starting to come about then was the first widescreen sets, but they were alot more expensive.
Move forward to 2005 and things have started to change:
CRT or LCD?
Widescreen or 4:3
On board digital or analogue?
And by now in 2010, all of the above, plus HD (full or HD ready?) Freeview HD or Freesat HD on board? LED backlighting and, last but not least, the first 3D TVs.
I admit, I'm keeping this really simple, but the point is for almost 40 years the TV in the corner of your room didn't really change much. In the last 10 years the TV in the corner of your room has changed beyond recognition. And consumers have noticed that new technology is coming to the market more quickly and cheaply than before and hence I think are less concerned if their TV doesn't last 10 years.
I admit, I'm keeping this really simple, but the point is for almost 40 years the TV in the corner of your room didn't really change much. In the last 10 years the TV in the corner of your room has changed beyond recognition. And consumers have noticed that new technology is coming to the market more quickly and cheaply than before and hence I think are less concerned if their TV doesn't last 10 years.
You might have nailed it right on the head there. Certainly what we would now consider to be vintage electronics were much more expensive than the equivalent technology today but lasted far longer.
Logically, this would be the manufacturers specifically making it more reliable because of the price?
A mono sound, single-speed, no remote, top-loading VHS recorder of 1980 would be far more expensive when new than a new 2005-ish HiFi VCR with remote, twin (or even triple speed), wireless remote and possibly NICAM stereo, even one from a reputable manufacturer.
How the prices were the same or higher for valve versions of products that the Japanese were also making is beyond me.
Trade unions, perhaps? Or our off-putting tax rates?
You're right- you probably didn't throw away sets at less than two years old - but that was because the way they were designed meant the components could be replaced.
I guess what's changed is the way this kind of product is now manufactured - basically you'll have a couple of boards which have all their components sealed onto the board - a bit like a PC motherboard. Whereas 20 or 30 years ago, each component could easily be removed and replaced.
The other reason is that relatively speaking TVs are far cheaper than they've ever been before - so people don't expect a £200 TV to last many years. Whereas 20 years ago you'd have been looking at £ 400 to buy a 21" branded set (Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic et al) and £300 to buy an unbranded one.
I think the other factor which means people don't mind cheaper products failing sooner is that the technology is now moving on so quickly, they're pretty much guaranteed they'll buy something new which is far better. This is a recent phenomenon though - look at the development of TV from the 1950s:
In 1955 you'd have bought a B&W CRT set with VHF.
By 1965 you'd have bought a B&W CRT set - probably dual-standard, but in most people's eyes nothing that significant.
By 1975 you might have bought a colour CRT set - a bit more of a development.
By 1985 you'd probably have bought a colour CRT set - likely to have a remote control, possible Teletext.
But overall nothing that significant from 1975-85.
By 1995 you'd probably be buying a colour CRT set with remote, teletext and possibly a NICAM set - though it depended on your budget. So again, nothing that different. The only change which was starting to come about then was the first widescreen sets, but they were alot more expensive.
Move forward to 2005 and things have started to change:
CRT or LCD?
Widescreen or 4:3
On board digital or analogue?
And by now in 2010, all of the above, plus HD (full or HD ready?) Freeview HD or Freesat HD on board? LED backlighting and, last but not least, the first 3D TVs.
I admit, I'm keeping this really simple, but the point is for almost 40 years the TV in the corner of your room didn't really change much. In the last 10 years the TV in the corner of your room has changed beyond recognition. And consumers have noticed that new technology is coming to the market more quickly and cheaply than before and hence I think are less concerned if their TV doesn't last 10 years.
Maybe I`m abnormal, quite at the back, but to me TV hasn`t changed that much since colour.
All I`m bothered about is looking at a picture and listening to the sound of an interesting, or funny, programme.
I don`t care about NICAM, or surround sound or widescreen come to that. As for 3D, you`re having a laugh aren`t you ?
TEXT is worth having I suppose, but is that really TV ? PVRs are a big advance in some ways, but in other they`re a pain in the a**e.
In some ways things have actually regressed in that (most) TV is crap these days, and "repeats" are now an art form in themselves.
Comments
From this website it looks like Tatung joined the likes of Panasonic on the manufacturing exodus to the Czech Republic. However, as the most recent news item is two years old it could be the company no longer exists.
www.tatung.eu/index_en.php
There is no UK address suggesting that if it still exists, TVs are not being imported to the UK.
On the Sony front, it recently sold a large European LCD TV factory to a Taiwanese company so nothing is what it seems, though I assume that Sony will still do the R&D.
www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE62U08020100331
On a more positive UK note, UK-based digibox manufacturers seem to be doing well, though the manufacturing is outsourced.
Pace and Sky-owned Amstrad lead the way and there are a host of smaller ones including TVOnics, 3View plus Digital Vision (who do the Grundig USB PVR).
And, British TV assembly has made a comeback courtesy of Cello in NE England.
www.celloelectronics.com/about-cello
The Bush name has been used for cheap Chinese-built products for (I would guess) at least 20 years- it was owned by Alba (*) until they sold it to Argos. Shows that this isn't a new trick, though it's definitely more prevalent nowadays.
I remember my brother buying a cheap "Bush" TV in the early-90s and my Mum mentioning something them having a good reputation in the 1960s or whatever, not realising it had sod all to do with the modern Bush.
Speaking of brands, this phenomenon goes beyond the consumer electronics market.
Did you know that the modern "Atari" games distributor is really just the formerly-named Infogrames, and has nothing to do with the original- and defunct- Atari beyond having bought the name and some rights a few years back?
(*) In fact, the Alba we all know and "love" is itself just a distributor that bought out the name of an older brand. And it's not even called "Alba" any more, since they sold that brand to Argos too. :rolleyes:
That was more than two years ago, Tatung folded completely a fair while back now.
The sets which came from Eastern Europe (I didn't think it was the Czech Republic?, I thought it was Lithuania?) weren't really much cop.
Post 2001 Indesit (Merloni), (not Antonio Merloni...Servis) started to introduce their electronics to the Hotpoint designs and then the tubs etc. The downfall of the brand started then with reliability problems rife..nice for me. They have now shifted all washing machine, dryer and cookers to Poland and expect an even worse product. I would choose Vestel over them anyday and at least they are relatively cheap to repair.
I've just got myself a 15 yr old Hotpoint to recon for myself:D
Update.. some Bush machines are Haier, Chinese Junk and not the type that floats 'cos they lasted years.
It's interesting to see that the old Audiorama speakers appear to be still made by somebody at least.
http://www.grundig.de/nc/produkte/hifi/stereo-kugelboxen/audiorama-9000.html
This was a design I remember from the 80s and I always fancied a pair. They would be awesome as part of a Home Cinema set up today.
They were more of a gimmick than anything else - if you wanted some you should have bought some from us way back then
As a result we were selling the stuff off at incredible prices, something like 20% of the original cost - we had quite a large number of those speakers. They didn't sound too bad, but none of the staff here bought any - and we got the stuff even cheaper.
I think we sold them at £69? - they are certainly not worth 600 Euros, they are only average sort of quality.
I've not seen Lithuania mentioned, both Wikipedia and the Tatung websites say Czech Republic.
It appears that Tatung are still going in some form, global financials are up to date and there are recent investor presentations. Yet other news stops in 2007.
www.tatung.com/en/investors.asp
Telford and Czech Republic are named as European sites.
www.tatung.com/en/europe.asp
UK Companies House still has a live UK company registered and filing accounts but in February this year its registered office moved to Birmingham, I think to an accountants. Its turnover is less than a £1m, a contrast to 1999 when it turned over £114m.
When I needed a new WMC in the top flat (which has severe access problems for a WMC....) I did a bit of research.
I needed a WMC which could be fixed in situ, not just written off and a new one bought. I was advised to buy the last of the real Hotpoints, so I bought a "reconditioned" WMC52.
WMC engineers tell me anyone can mend one of those, and you don`t need a bleedin` laptop to do so.....
Since then it did actually develop a slight leak, but I got it fixed ( a new pump or something) for £30 including parts !
It`s like TVs I suppose, older TVs are FAR easier to repair than newer ones......
Hope yours lasts for as long as mine will Justin.
PS we have gone a bit off topic;)
I bleedin` hope so, because getting a WMC up those narrow and steep stairs was not something I want to have to do a gain in a hurry.........
I very much doubt a 60s Bush TV would compare favourably with a Bush-badged Vestel or similar set of today.
TVs in the 60s and 70s were notoriously unreliable, particularly the domestic / European brands. Things started to change in the late 60s when Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi and Panasonic started to arrive on the UK market and their products were vastly more reliable.
This is what caused the decline of the domestic brands, many of which you list above, with the result that where they are used, it is as a badge on unbranded products.
Having said that, nobody is offering the budget products and pretending they are as good as a Panasonic/Samsung/Sony - but then again they're usually 30% cheaper than the big brands.
Not a problem at all, as "Imation" is a 3M (Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing) brand. 3M were the makers of "Scotch" blank VHS videocassettes - the best sold!
I've also always found "Imation" blank CD-Rs satisfactory.
Regards
Since we don`t mend LCDs/Plasmas we don`t really repair TVs any more, but when we did I`d far rather work on (say) a Vestel 11AK12 than any Sony/Panasonic/Toshiba !
You can tell which sets engineers prefer to work on because they`re the first ones taken of the "to do" pile, and in our workshop it was always the Vestels and similar type products which went first. Conversely, the Panasonic Euros were always left till they absolutely had to be repaired `cos they`ve been in for days...... The same applied to many of the other established make TVs.
Strictly first come first served, unless a customer phoned.
"Where's my bloody unit?"
We kept everyone happy in the end.
Ahh yes, but there`s theory, and then there`s practice.....
I wrote a database in the end. (Access)
Too many customers moaning we lost accessories.
We didn't, well sometimes, they lost more than we did. Big companies.
(I can't be more specific, privacy)
Database logged all units and accessories on arrival. ie Customer details+unit+charger+mains lead+whatever+serial nos.
Couple of clicks to interrogate.
Had a scare one year when our unit flooded. All the units were on the floor "in the queue".
We rescued them. All units on pallets after.
I also remember radio's like the Yacht Boy and tape recorders from the early TK range through to I think a TK121 IIRC plus the office recorders.
I've been doing TV repairs for many years, certainly sets are more reliable now (with the exceptions of the cheap suoermarket rubbish). But Bush/Murphy, Thorn Group etc. were all pretty good reliable TV's - once valves had disappeared, valve had automatic failing built-in
Certainly back then you weren't hrowing 15 month old TV's away, like the supermarket jobs over the last 7 or 8 years.
You're right- you probably didn't throw away sets at less than two years old - but that was because the way they were designed meant the components could be replaced.
I guess what's changed is the way this kind of product is now manufactured - basically you'll have a couple of boards which have all their components sealed onto the board - a bit like a PC motherboard. Whereas 20 or 30 years ago, each component could easily be removed and replaced.
The other reason is that relatively speaking TVs are far cheaper than they've ever been before - so people don't expect a £200 TV to last many years. Whereas 20 years ago you'd have been looking at £ 400 to buy a 21" branded set (Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic et al) and £300 to buy an unbranded one.
I think the other factor which means people don't mind cheaper products failing sooner is that the technology is now moving on so quickly, they're pretty much guaranteed they'll buy something new which is far better. This is a recent phenomenon though - look at the development of TV from the 1950s:
In 1955 you'd have bought a B&W CRT set with VHF.
By 1965 you'd have bought a B&W CRT set - probably dual-standard, but in most people's eyes nothing that significant.
By 1975 you might have bought a colour CRT set - a bit more of a development.
By 1985 you'd probably have bought a colour CRT set - likely to have a remote control, possible Teletext.
But overall nothing that significant from 1975-85.
By 1995 you'd probably be buying a colour CRT set with remote, teletext and possibly a NICAM set - though it depended on your budget. So again, nothing that different. The only change which was starting to come about then was the first widescreen sets, but they were alot more expensive.
Move forward to 2005 and things have started to change:
CRT or LCD?
Widescreen or 4:3
On board digital or analogue?
And by now in 2010, all of the above, plus HD (full or HD ready?) Freeview HD or Freesat HD on board? LED backlighting and, last but not least, the first 3D TVs.
I admit, I'm keeping this really simple, but the point is for almost 40 years the TV in the corner of your room didn't really change much. In the last 10 years the TV in the corner of your room has changed beyond recognition. And consumers have noticed that new technology is coming to the market more quickly and cheaply than before and hence I think are less concerned if their TV doesn't last 10 years.
You might have nailed it right on the head there. Certainly what we would now consider to be vintage electronics were much more expensive than the equivalent technology today but lasted far longer.
Logically, this would be the manufacturers specifically making it more reliable because of the price?
A mono sound, single-speed, no remote, top-loading VHS recorder of 1980 would be far more expensive when new than a new 2005-ish HiFi VCR with remote, twin (or even triple speed), wireless remote and possibly NICAM stereo, even one from a reputable manufacturer.
How the prices were the same or higher for valve versions of products that the Japanese were also making is beyond me.
Trade unions, perhaps? Or our off-putting tax rates?
All I`m bothered about is looking at a picture and listening to the sound of an interesting, or funny, programme.
I don`t care about NICAM, or surround sound or widescreen come to that. As for 3D, you`re having a laugh aren`t you ?
TEXT is worth having I suppose, but is that really TV ? PVRs are a big advance in some ways, but in other they`re a pain in the a**e.
In some ways things have actually regressed in that (most) TV is crap these days, and "repeats" are now an art form in themselves.