How did Eleven know there would be Twelve?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1
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If I recall correctly Matt Smith's Doctor was convinced his death would be his ultimate demise right until the very last minute that a flock of Gallifreyan time lords giftwrapped a box of brand new regeneration energy no? The possibility of a Twelfth was completely dubious to his mind and yet we have him calling Clara to tell her to embrace his future self.

Nonetheless an incredibly moving scene and such a beautiful concept. Just reminds me of the kind of story about the Alzheimer's patient who leaves a letter for his wife for instance to remind her that the man she loved is still inside him even if he does not appear it - despite the scifi element it's a very poignantly human conception and very easy for us to identify with.

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 50
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    When he phoned Clara he knew there would be a Twelfth Doctor, as he'd already been given his new set of regenerations by the Time Lords (big crack in the sky.) The Phone call was after he destroyed all the Dalek ships with the regeneration energy.
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,606
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    I know they would have wanted Matt looking like his usual self and not in old man makeup for the final scene but the whole Idea of his current body being reset before the regeneration actually happens is a silly one.


    It was the same when they had the 10th Doctor's body heal completely (apart from the radiation poisoning) hours/days before he actually regenerated.


    The whole point of regeneration is that the the current body is beyond repair and a new one is required.


    The last two regenerations have had the Doctor's current body being repaired and then once it's fully repaired destroying it and replacing it with the new body.
  • doctor blue boxdoctor blue box Posts: 7,337
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    Corwin wrote: »
    I know they would have wanted Matt looking like his usual self and not in old man makeup for the final scene but the whole Idea of his current body being reset before the regeneration actually happens is a silly one.


    It was the same when they had the 10th Doctor's body heal completely (apart from the radiation poisoning) hours/days before he actually regenerated.


    The whole point of regeneration is that the the current body is beyond repair and a new one is required.


    The last two regenerations have had the Doctor's current body being repaired and then once it's fully repaired destroying it and replacing it with the new body.

    The comment about Matt's doctor I completely agree with. The whole reset really was silly. Why they thought the audience couldn't handle seeing him regenerate as an old man i'll never know. Felt like they stripped the doctor of everything he went through that episode just to seemingly not anger the kind of people who like to make youtube regeneration compilations. Also, the regeneration sequence which actually occured on the clock tower and caused the 'reset' was so epic it would have been a much better send off.

    As for your comment about David Tennant's doctor though, that was a completely different scenario. He went in the chamber and caused his death, then as his scar's healed he clearly said "it's started", and that was the point, the regeneration had started already, so regeneration energy was starting to seep through (enough to heal the scars off his current body) but he really 'didnt want to go' and especially not before he'd had chance to attempt his little goodbye tour so all that time from the time those scars were shown to heal he was actually in the process of regenerating already, could do nothing to stop it, but could hold it off as long as possible as he was. That was likely a contributing factor to why it was so violent when it was finally allowed to fully go through.
  • TheSilentFezTheSilentFez Posts: 11,103
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    He phoned Clara just after the big violent "regeneration" had killed all the Daleks. When he phoned her, he was already regenerating.
  • jpljpl Posts: 286
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    ...could do nothing to stop it, but could hold it off as long as possible as he was. That was likely a contributing factor to why it was so violent when it was finally allowed to fully go through.

    yeah that's how I saw that, like holding in the toilet until you really really can't anymore...
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,606
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    As for your comment about David Tennant's doctor though, that was a completely different scenario. He went in the chamber and caused his death, then as his scar's healed he clearly said "it's started", and that was the point, the regeneration had started already, so regeneration energy was starting to seep through (enough to heal the scars off his current body) but he really 'didnt want to go' and especially not before he'd had chance to attempt his little goodbye tour so all that time from the time those scars were shown to heal he was actually in the process of regenerating already, could do nothing to stop it, but could hold it off as long as possible as he was. That was likely a contributing factor to why it was so violent when it was finally allowed to fully go through.

    Oh I know what they were going for I just don't believe it would work that way.

    If 10 is holding back the regeneration then either nothing should happen (and he still has all his cuts) or if some part of the energy starts seeping in then his body should start changing not healing.

    The Process of Regeneration is Destroy then Replace. Not Heal - Destroy - Replace.


    And yes I don't like the idea of the Doctor healing River's wrist with regeneration energy either (even if we ignore the fact he's on his last Incarnation).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,334
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    I took it that it was just a goodbye message to Clara but he heard the other voice and recognized it as himself. I may have to re watch the scene though.
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    From a storytelling/programme-making perspective, it's about saying goodbye to the Doctor we came to know, not the modified version we've only just seen. It's a blaze of glory, not a whimper.

    If you want an in-universe explanation, then Matt's 'renewal' is not really any different from David's 'healing' - if the cells are regenerating internally already, any cellular damage caused by the aging process will also tend to revert. It may be a mechanism to stabilise the body and prevent any further degradation, until the second wave comes in and rewrites it all.
  • be more pacificbe more pacific Posts: 19,061
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    From a storytelling/programme-making perspective, it's about saying goodbye to the Doctor we came to know, not the modified version we've only just seen. It's a blaze of glory, not a whimper.

    If you want an in-universe explanation, then Matt's 'renewal' is not really any different from David's 'healing' - if the cells are regenerating internally already, any cellular damage caused by the aging process will also tend to revert. It may be a mechanism to stabilise the body and prevent any further degradation, until the second wave comes in and rewrites it all.
    A bit like rebooting your computer in "safe mode" before you can repair it.

    Of course, it's a bit strange that 11 should object to being "old" after living for centuries as an old man. Maybe he was so pleased to be rejuvenated by the reset that he wasn't ready to be old again?
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Of course, it's a bit strange that 11 should object to being "old" after living for centuries as an old man. Maybe he was so pleased to be rejuvenated by the reset that he wasn't ready to be old again?

    Yeah, but he didn't 'choose' to be old that time round. If Eleven truly did subconsciously pick a young face in order to fit in, then it stands to reason that persona wouldn't want to be old.
  • CoalHillJanitorCoalHillJanitor Posts: 15,634
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    There's always the War Doctor's hypothesis, that Doctors 10 and 11 were young because the Doctor was afraid of being grown-up after the events of the Time War. Now that he's corrected his mistake, he can relax and be old again.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 500
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    SDJ1709 wrote: »
    If I recall correctly Matt Smith's Doctor was convinced his death would be his ultimate demise right until the very last minute that a flock of Gallifreyan time lords giftwrapped a box of brand new regeneration energy no? The possibility of a Twelfth was completely dubious to his mind and yet we have him calling Clara to tell her to embrace his future self.

    Nonetheless an incredibly moving scene and such a beautiful concept. Just reminds me of the kind of story about the Alzheimer's patient who leaves a letter for his wife for instance to remind her that the man she loved is still inside him even if he does not appear it - despite the scifi element it's a very poignantly human conception and very easy for us to identify with.

    He knew because he was regenerating. Remember the regeneration started on the rooftop, and ended in the TARDIS.
  • vampirekvampirek Posts: 4,022
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    It was also explained that Matt's Doctor regeneration was taking longer due to it being a new cycle, his body reset awaiting the cycle to kick in. Its safe to assume that on the rooftop he 'regenerated' but because it was taking longer than normal left him in the state when he first regenerated in that body. Would also explain the quickness of him changing into his 13th version.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    Corwin wrote: »
    I know they would have wanted Matt looking like his usual self and not in old man makeup for the final scene but the whole Idea of his current body being reset before the regeneration actually happens is a silly one.


    It was the same when they had the 10th Doctor's body heal completely (apart from the radiation poisoning) hours/days before he actually regenerated.


    The whole point of regeneration is that the the current body is beyond repair and a new one is required.


    The last two regenerations have had the Doctor's current body being repaired and then once it's fully repaired destroying it and replacing it with the new body.


    Think of it as a "foundation" - the basic structire of the body is being repaired to provide a solid basis for the new "cosmetic" change.

    If that doesn't work for you - think of it as "doing-up" the house before selling it - knowing full well that any new owner is going to redecorate as a matter of course.
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