Again, very perceptive. Both Tim and Jade were completely set up by the production team. Tim was an upper-class plonker and Jade was generally too stupid to realise how she was exploited. They probably took one look at the audition tapes and realised "box office gold".

time for me to step in

1. she knew what she was getting into and at no time seemed to consider not going in the house.
2. She bored them all from the minute they met her.
3. Her boringness was overwhelming and non-stop
4. people dont want to be around boring people no matter how much they try
5. She was always moaning about them in the DR but never said anything to them
6. They were nice to her face so she wasnt bullied like Sophie(but they overdone it behind her back)
7. She said her "killing someone with 2 fingers (?) was a joke when she was outside, but it didnt seem that way on the show
8. The nose-job was probably her no1 priority out of the show (and it looks nice from the side)
9. She causes her own problems but always blames others.
10. She was a lot older than most of them and therefore should have been more mature (memories of the gold bikini come to mind)
11. etc etc etc



But she didnt deserve to be booed like a baddie. She was harmless.

I am going to try to replay to these one by one without writing war and peace so bare with me

1. I think its fair to say that yes they had all seen the way the public had treated some members of BB3 and how some HM were bullied - however I think all of them at the back of their minds think well we're decent people and we won't suffer from that. They all forget about the editing and she was edited very harshly at a time when BB chiefs were desperate to come up with some plotline of interest

2,3,4 - I think you can say a lot of things about lisa but never that she was boring - her stories in fact sometimes were so extreme that they could be perhaps read as incredulous but never boring. She was never short of opinions and was feisty - if you want boring you had it in the shape of Gos and Scott but no one bullied them

5. They were all moaning about each other in the diary room - it was an especially important place for lisa because there was no one else to confide in - also we only see the edited highlights - there is no doubt that BB prompts certain comments from housemates for the evening edition of C4 programme. In addition, a lot of housemates have talked of being in the diary room for hours at a time because many of the bb voices act almost as a counsellor or as a friend - lisa was in particular need of this

6. They weren't nice to her face - they used to walk away from her all the time and exclude her and they used to stop talking when she approached so she knew that they had been talking about her - also you can sense an atmosphere and if people don't like you or laugh at your behind your back

7. She has said that the killing people with two fingers was a joke and i believe her - she is quite deadpan in her manner and i think the housemates just didn't 'get' her

8. She had got to the age of 35 without thinking there was anything wrong with her nose otherwise she would have had it fixed in her twenties when people are more insecure about their appearance - she credited it to the abuse she received on the outside - i don't see any reason why this shouldn't be believed

9. She didn't cause her bullying

10. She's the same age as kylie minogue and ulrika johnson and i don't see anyone telling them to dress more maturely

If you had a "thing" about how you looked, maybe your nose (in this case) would you volunteer to show it to millions of people on TV 24/7, in BB, where you will have been warned about this sort of thing, repeatedly, by psychologists etc?
Ok, no one should be subjected to mental torture but this "very intelligent" (her words) person didn't see BB1 2 and 3 then? Wasn't warned about the media, etc?
She knew exactly the type on environment she was heading for - how unpleasant it could get - how Endemall can show you just how they want to show you. That's the LAST place you'd want to be if you don't want your whole self judged and ripped apart!

Given all that, basically told "You go in there (please sign) and you will essentially be thrown to the wolves. Still want to sign?"
"I'll sign"

Now, does she not share some of the culpability, blame, whatever? No one said it was going to be a holiday/fairground ride, can't cite naivity!

But this is what I find so cold, Maisy,

I've heard some people (not just on this thread),...more or less say, that the contestants know what they are getting into,..so it's their hard luck.


I have the feeling that this is just an excuse to brush off any feelings of a conscience, and empathy,..because those feelings get in the way of our voyeuristic pleasure.

So we can just sit back and enjoy without a care in the world. If somebody is extremely distressed due to their participation on a TV show,..it's okay,..our enjoyment of the show is more important, and we can justify our enjoyment by conveniently sweeping our conscience under the carpet for a while, and shift the blame onto someone else.

It's our fault for letting ourselves feed the reality TV obsession.
It's easy to excuse anything that happens on BB, and blame the individual.
But if you enjoy BB,..you may as well put your hands up and admit that we are simply voyeuristic animals who sometimes enjoy someone else's distress as entertainment.

We're more to blame than Lisa,..we keep the whole circus on air.
We're probably getting more voyeuristic and sick as people, the more we buy into trash television.

Sure, Lisa had a rough idea of what *could* happen,...but that doesn't mean that I think all the blame lies squarely on her own shoulders.
The trash that she had to live with,...the TV production crew,..and more importantly us,..we are all more to blame than Lisa.

It's easy to demonize a person if you can find an excuse to absolve yourself of responsibilty...But what happens when we stop looking at ourselves?

(Someone got drunk and died in the BB swimming pool,.oh it's okay,..he got what he deserved because he knew what he was getting into,...just enjoy)

No, I totally agree with you Alrightmate.
That it should come to this pitch is beyond entertainment.
I feel the level of animosity directed at Lisa might mark a cut off point as to where it should cease.
No, I could not agree more.

Lisa was attractive enough. She actually looked quite good in the bikini but she didnt need to constantly go on about it.

heres more list

1. Lisa doesnt have conversations, she has monologues. People can put up with this for a short time but soon they will talk about it with each other to have a reality check and will laugh about it and the bore will find themselves the thing that bonds the others together.
2. there are many ways of being rude. One is by boring people silly. Its rude to bore them with monologues. Eventually the others will turn against the bore.
3. I watched a lot of BB and she was incredibly boring.
4. She is a walter mitty character and these people are always impossible.
5. She wasnt bullied. They were as nice to her as they could muster. But they didnt want to be in her company cos she was very boring.
6. When I say Lisa was moaning, I mean she was saying how she was going to kick up hell etc. But out the DR she never did. assertive people speak about it when they are sober to the others.
7. Lisa just doesnt consider the downside in publicity type things. She thinks everyone will see her the way she sees herself. Its been a major wake up call for her.

but like a lot of these Walter mittys, she is a good natured person and actually very likeable. Thats one of the things that are impossible about these people. You want to like them but the constant monologues are agonising and its impossible to have a dialogue with them.

but I would never want her to be known as the Welsh dragon

quote from Sunday Mail ...

We consulted top psychotherapist Gill Coleby - an avid fan of Big Brother - to analyse the real forces at work here.

Who is the maddest of them all? You decide.


.....

THE WELSH DRAGON

DELUSIONS of grandeur appear to plague Lisa Jeynes, whose grasp of fact and fantasy is a little hazy to say the least.

Aware that her late entry into the house would make it difficult to break into the inner circle of the housemates, she set about painting a picture of herself as a tough cookie.

Gill says: "Lisa presents a typical narcissistic character.

"She has a tremendous need to be understood, but unfortunately presents a grandiose and false personality, full of fantasy about how great, successful and powerful she is. This only repels people from her, rather than getting her the understanding she really needs."

Lisa, 35, is another person who, in Gill's opinion, would benefit from a few sessions on the therapist's couch.

The hairdresser told stunned Ray shortly after arriving in the BB house: "Cross me and you'll be sorry. I could kill someone with these two fingers.

"I'm very intelligent, I'm amazingly strong. I've done things most of you won't do for another 10 years."

But when Davina broke the news of her eviction, Lisa burst into tears. And Gill believes she deserves our sympathy.

She said: "There are many reasons she could be the way she is.

"One of the most common explanations is she grew up being a person everyone expected her to be. She wasn't allowed to be herself."

Branded a "total fantasist" by her own big brother Adrian, Lisa made wild claims she'd slept with Man United star Ryan Giggs and that she had psychic powers.

Proclaiming herself a medium, she said she saw "orbs" floating through the room.

She said: "A psychic told me I've got psychic powers. I've seen dead people.

"When Sixth Sense came out I thought, `I could have made that'."

Lisa also claimed she was scarred from a shark attack. But her brother revealed: "She got that doing gym at school."

Gill believes Lisa's string of relationships - it's been claimed she was engaged 10 times - are a symptom of her need for constant love and attention.

She said: "Lisa can't handle being ordinary and relating to people in a real way. She has to be special and different."

Lisa alienated herself from housemates with her mystic mumbo-jumbo, serial sleepwalking and talking, and constant whingeing.

Her stories of being a top-class model proved to be pie in the sky, as she never got further than making a portfolio.

She even had both housemates and viewers questioning her sexuality by commenting on her first day: "You have to have the balls to walk in in the sixth week.

"I have two rather large testicles here. That's the other surprise."

Gill refutes Lisa's claim that she was hated because she entered the BB house in the sixth week.

She said: "Someone who was truly at ease with themselves would have been able to bond with the housemates and bring more excitement to the group.

"The real trouble with Lisa - and she is still doing it - is she's always `me, me, me'."

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/features...name_page.html

Yep, Lisa should have acted like a simpering idiot the way Nush did

See?
Getting sidetracked about the "others" laying into her is a smoke screen.
She is a bore! Face it!

A very altruistic post AM. Commendable and admirable.

...and somewhat Utopian. It's nice to think that everyone could aspire to the sentiments of your post, but sady, in reality they can't. That's probably the main reason programmes like BB exist and why they will always have a following - one man's hell is another man's paradise.

Your post presents a dichotomy - are contestants there to sate viewers, or should viewers use the programme to reflect on their own values and beliefs? I suspect a minority will do the latter, but for the majority, the former applies.

when it came to difficult situations, Nush dumped the simpering idiot act and stood up for herself (albeit, on the backfoot)

The argument with Jon re the meals.
She completed the foodlist
Made uncomfy by many of them (Ray, Cam, Steph)
Handled the journalist shouting well.
Arguing with Jon about the bellringing exercise
Realising sissy was being unfair

Nush is strong when it comes to it and when she talked in the DR it was clear she read the situations perfectly too.

i'd have done a runner

I thought Kate tripping over when she tried to put her pants on was marginally a better moment.

Really?

If I remember the wrong person here, please correct me but I'm sure it was Lisa who did the following:
It was either 3am -ish or 5-am -sh and Lisa goes into the girls bedroom and turns all the lights on to take her make up off waking Steph up in the meantime (who was very annoyed as she stated next day).
Steph was already annoyed I think as Lisa had been wearing the same colour clothes as her for ages.
As Steph said, why didn't she take her warpaint off in the loo? It's not like the BB house is short of mirrors is it?????
She was being horrid and I would have chucked her out the bedroom and made damn sure I woke her up next opportunity.

(Wasn't Tania was it? She would have had to get scaffolding and the Council in to jet-wash all that blusher!)

Two interesting posts Goodfella especially Gill Coleby's assessment

And its this assessment that i think is the crux of the matter for me

The celebrity business is riddled by what i would see as "needy" people - people who for whatever reason maybe didn't get enough love or attention or stability in their early lives. They know the downside of the fame but they are so desperate for public affirmation that they gamble even though many of them are not mentally prepared to be able to cope properly with rejection

The BB process we are led to believe weeds out anyone with "issues" - it obviously didn't in Lisa's case - the researchers would have seen, i believe, at an early stage that maybe she was somewhat scarred by her earlier life - they knew this and they knew that they were sending her in to an obviously hostile environment where she would be rejected instantly - they didn't have to be pyschologists to work out that this was lisa's worst case scenario that would tip her into more extreme behaviour and they added to the mix by asking her to "stir things up" maybe suggesting that this would ensure her survival because the public were growing bored with nice housemates (this is just me surmising obviously)

They specifically chose lisa out of all the people they had on their shortlist, i believe, because they knew she would react badly to rejection and that her behaviour would provoke the housemates into revealing something of their true natures - it would make great TV for them

And as an avid BB fan i don't feel comfortable watching someone fall apart on screen - although i accept that by watching it i am complicit in this.

I don't believe lisa is to blame because the nature of her personality didn't allow her to act any differently faced with such extreme rejection - however many of the housemates had a choice over how they reacted to her, (especially the likes of scott who seemed to be very stable and sorted in his approach to the world and cameron who was supposedly more mature) - however unpleasant her behaviour was -

i think it was ben that quoted nasty nick's behaviour and the housemates reaction to this and i think this is a really strong point

This was a man who had claimed his first wife had died in a car accident - a far worse lie than lisa came up with - yet it was dealt with maturely and at the end when he was evicted, he was supported and comforted although the housemates made it clear that in no way was his behaviour acceptable

This is the BB i would rather watch - if they are going to spiral into putting personalities on screen who are vulnerable - which i believe lisa was - then it becomes a completely different programme - one that exploits people's misery for telephone revenue --

From what I remember it was only a short time before he got evicted from the house that the rest of the HM's found out Nick was a liar and a cheat.
They didn't have a lot of time to bitch about or bully him but if he had of stayed in, human nature being what it is, they wouldn't have given him a minutes peace.

Yes, that was one of the best BB moments, where Craig was the hero and Nick was the villain. I don't remember much about the involement of other characters in the pantomime, except perhaps Darren to a certain degree.

The focal point of that memorable BB moment wasn't the maturity, fairness or adult behaviour of the rest of the HM's, it was the confrontation between Craig and Nick where we as the viewer got to hiss and boo en masse as the villain got his just desserts.

Really? Funny how when Shameron and the rest of the shabby crew went on another little bullying kick - going on at Nush about how she was 'always interrupting' she just cowtowed to their insults instead.

My point is Lisa didn't conform to the female stereotype expected of her which is why she has come in for the condemnation she has.

Nope, not boring. Far from it.

Edna, go to your room ! (as long as it doesnt have an internet connection)

can I apologise for my outburst (in case I get banned )

It was meant to be funny

Lisa was all talk but didnt walk the walk (except the Friday she was chucked out . And she handled the crowd well)

Nush may appear limp to some, but IMHO she is strong and it only surfaces when shes in a corner (cos she wants to be liked and be part of the group) and also like many people she doesnt like confrontation and will only fight her corner if theres no other way out.

Lisa is actually strong as well but she lives on another planet I was hoping BB would be a wake-up call for her. I think the public reaction to Nick and Lisa etc actually surprises them. It wouldnt surprise me if Lisa thought it would be all men at her exit drooling over her

You are quite simply wrong. It was Craig and Nichola who were up for the chop that week. Nick hadn't even received a single nomination.


Really? Got any evidence to back up that piece of blind speculation?


No, you don't remember. For some reason, Craig seemed to get most of the credit for confronting Nick, possibly because it was him whom Nick was trying to get rid of and because it was him who raised the subject of Nick's cheating at the meeting which all the others had agreed to hold and in which they all contributed. Every one of them expressed their own opinion on Nick's behaviour, and then the matter was handed over to BB.


How typical of a BB3 fan to read that moment in such simplistic terms. What was striking about that day was entirely the way in which the others all expressed their views in a mature, civilised manner - Nick was not condemned as a villain, but more a misguided twit who had broken the rules and betrayed the trust of the others - and treated him in a remarkably supportive and compassionate way. The concept of "heroes" and "villains" is only for those shallow enough to believe in it.

Do you think you could manage to post without being offensive towards those FMs that don't share your views? Your vendetta against Bystander has now become tedious and rather childish.(See quote above and other contributions on this thread, one of which I have just reported to the mods.)

What right do you have to describe those of us that disagree with your tastes as 'simplistic'?

PS - The series with the most simple, most stright forward, most tedious and transparent BB HMs was your favourite, BB1 ... Craig, Darren, Tom, Caggy, Nic, Clare, Sada, Andrew.....
Last edited by EddyBee : 06-12-2003 at 07:12

I am merely responding to Bystander who responded to my post in the first place, and yes, I do find his views simplistic.

Go away, Eejay.

You said that you would ignore my posts and since then you have constantly butted in with your :yawn: smilies and generally gone back on your word. The fact is that I was not harassing or abusing Bystander - I merely answered his response. However, I have no interest in exchanging opinions with you and I don't give a toss what you think.

It seems that by scutinising my posts for things that you can report to the moderators, it is in fact *you* who is maintaining a vendetta - and it is in fact you who comes across as childish and spiteful. I shall let this go for now, but if you respond to anything I post here or continue to attempt to stir, then I will have no choice but to report *you* to the moderators.

You have no evidence to support your claim of "bullying" other forum members, merely your interpretation and to quote you, "another forum member's writing style is none of your business, this is a discussion forum, not a creative writing competition".

Back off Eejay, and mind your own business.

P.S. Funnily enough, it was BB1 that captured the imagination of the British public and without it you wouldn't have a series.

Meanwhile, back on topic.....