No but he had his share of incandescent customers !

My claim was probably one of the smallest (1300Euros) 'cos I found the problem, isolated all my circuits, then rang EDF emergencies.
My French is good enough to explain what I mean but I worry in case replies contain words that are not in my vocabulary.
This time I understood " how do you know that"?
He also understood "I am an engineer & I used a meter"
He agreed to act !

I considered adding that I was trained in HV isolation & could quickly show the local Fire Brigade (Pompiers) how to take out a transformer with a hunting rifle. Luckily I suddenly found that my French was inadequate.

I set off to tell the other dozen victims. They were not all in, including a senior member of EDF staff.

In rural France not all days are boring !!

Did I diverge from the main topic? Sorry.

David

Graham,
The "electrician" was not working on the final or consumer transformer.

I have 3 phases to the house & all my sockets were 291+-1v I didn't check my 3 phase sockets, just hit the main house isolator button. (By the way, I didn't think that 3 phases to a house was legal in UK !)

There are at least 3 voltages within a km, HV, one or two intermediate & the consumers 220/380. he had isolated an intermediate transformer, I think to repair a line to another consumer transformer.
In one house fed from a different consumer transformer I did a test & it was also 290 v.

I just assumed that there was a redundant tapping on some intermediate tranformer, that was not meant to be used.

I got compensation & no explanation. Which would you have rather have received?

The local retailers were happy.
Our neighbours became even more friendly.

David

Hi David. 3 phase supply to a house is legal but only used for the largest properties. You know the ones indoor swimming pools electrically heated and so on. (I'm Jealous ) There are rules about socket outlets in the same room not being on different phases though

Our modest semi-detached plus extension has it but then we live in the country with no gas and heat with storage heaters. We were told that 60A per phase was all we could have without paying a fortune for an industrial supply so I worked around that laying out the heating. When I saw the installer fitting 3 x 100A fuses I asked whether it was OK to pull that per phase. As the answer was yes I had rather wasted my time balancing the heating loads

It's the thin bits of string they call conductors on light line 11Kv that's the problem

Hi Caz42

You inspired me to dig out the instructions for my Panasonic microwave. Guess what it says the same thing

Thank goodness it wasn't a Toshiba, or Humax could have asserted it was either "Sharp Practice" or a "Load of Tosh" !!

David.

Youv'e started me off now, Miele Washing Machine, gives instructions in the manual where it is necessary to change plugs --- (instructions as to colours etc).

Likewise my Panasonic TV

Sony Bravia

Notice To Uk Customers

When an alternative type of plug is used it should be protected by a 10A fuse otherwise the circuit should be protected by a 10A fuse at the distribution board.

Humax look to be more and more out on a limb on this one. Presumably Mr Goodwin sells Panasonic and Sony TV's - Any comment ?

And Pioneer

IMPORTANT: THE MOULDED PLUG
This appliance is supplied with a moulded three pin mains plug for your safety and convenience. A 10 amp fuse is fitted in this plug. Should the
fuse need to be replaced, please ensure that the replacement fuse has a rating of 10 amps and that it is approved by ASTA or BSI to BS1362.
Check for the ASTA mark or the BSI mark on the body of the fuse.
If the plug contains a removable fuse cover, you must ensure that it is refitted when the fuse is replaced. If you lose the fuse cover the plug
must not be used until a replacement cover is obtained. A replacement fuse cover can be obtained from your local dealer.
If the fitted moulded plug is unsuitable for your socket outlet, then the fuse shall be removed and the plug cut off and disposed of
safely. There is a danger of severe electrical shock if the cut off plug is inserted into any 13 amp socket.
If a new plug is to be fitted, please observe the wiring code as shown below. If in any doubt, please consult a qualified electrician.IMPORTANT: The wires in this mains lead are coloured in accordance with the following code:
Blue : Neutral Brown : Live
As the colours of the wires in the mains lead of this appliance may not correspond with the coloured markings identifying the terminals in
your plug, proceed as follows ;
The wire which is coloured BLUE must be connected to the terminal which is marked with the
letter N or coloured BLACK.
The wire which is coloured BROWN must be connected to the terminal which is marked with the
letter L or coloured RED.
How to replace the fuse: Open the fuse compartment with a screwdriver and replace the fuse.

BDP-LX70A Blue Ray Player
Last edited by grahamlthompson : 23-04-2009 at 11:02

I'm not convinced that Humax do actually void the warranty if the plug is changed.

The only information we have from Humax is what Bob_Cat has said in addition to what's in the manual and warranty documents. Mr. Goodwin does not represent Humax.

As far as Bob_Cat's comments are concerned, although they give the impression that the warranty would be voided, he never actually says that it would be. He gives a number of reasons why Humax don't like the plug being removed, and these could be taken as reasons for voiding the warranty, but he may have been careful not to make a definative statement on the matter. Perhaps its the lack of a statement that the warranty isn't voided that adds to the assumption that it is. If Humax do not void the warranty due to a plug being changed, Bob_Cat could put this thread to bed by making a clear statement to that effect.

As far as the manual and warranty documentation are concerned, I reported in Post 24 that all I could find was,

"Do not modify or process the power cord or plug arbitrarily." [Page 5 of manual]

That's strange wording, but changing the plug so that the power cord can be threaded through an available hole in the furniture the HDR is installed in could hardly be described as arbitrary. I think you could make a fair claim that by doing so you would be using the HDR in accordance with the instructions in the manual.

Given the reported facts that other manufacturers specifically allow removal of the plug and Humax specifically do not forbid it outright I suspect the information that removing the plug voids the warranty is entirely spurious.

I think if you were refused a warranty repair and did take it to the small claims, the fact that you could take these manuals from other manufacturers would certainly go in your favour I think.

So funny to think of us all raking through the house to find old manuals. If nothing else, at least my drawers will get a good clean out

Edit: My kitchen drawers that is.......not my personal.......erm.....
Last edited by Caz42 : 23-04-2009 at 12:43

In fact as Trading Standards pointed out Humax or any other manufacturer don't have to give you a warranty under UK law. Your claim under the sale of goods act is with the retailer who sold you the goods.
In this case one retailer has declared that as far as the company he represents that they will refuse to honour their responsiblity under the Sale Of Goods act if the original supplied plug has been replaced quouting some pretty ridicolous safety certificate. It's pretty clear that this statement is entirely undefensible. All I can say if you want to buy a hdr buy it from somewhere that has a more sensible customer service, or if you are refused service under the warranty simply because you have changed the plug, take whoever it is to court - it's hard to imagine how you could lose.
Last edited by grahamlthompson : 23-04-2009 at 12:47

There is a practical consideration to be taken into account. Although the purchaser's legal recourse is with the retailer, the retailer's recourse is with the manufacturer (either directly or indirectly back through the supply route). If the manufacturer has a policy of not accepting equipment that has had the plug changed, the retailer will have little option but to pass that policy on to their customer. His alternatives are to take a huge loss or not sell equipment from the manufacturer concerned.

I don't recall Mr. Goodwin explicitly stating that Humax refuse to accept returns from his retail outlet which have had the plug changed. If that is the case, he should say so. If it is not the case, his retail outlet is way out of line if it refuses to accept such equipment from its customers. Incidentally, does anyone know which retail outlet Mr. Goodwin represents?

We have collectively found it difficult to suggest any rewiring mode that would damage the HDR.

If there was a bad way to rewire a plug then someone, leaving the moulded plug intact, could, do it to the extension lead, that they threaded through instead.

I personally prefer to leave moulded plugs intact, where I can.
If there is any malfunction it leaves one less thing to check.
Using an extension bar with a switch allows simple simultaneous isolation of associated kit.

I have in the past found warm plugs. This usually comes down to a terminal that has gradually become a bit loose.
It may be a bit extreme but such a terminal could eventually cause arcing. I imagine that this might harm electronics.

Does anyone know why, originally tight, terminals loosen?

Would we be better off with the terminals that clenched with leaf springs?

David

If a retailer cannot fulfill his or her obligations under consumer protection legislation because of a manufacturer's policy then s/he should most certainly not be selling anything so affected from that manufacturer.

A retailer would be laughed out of court if they tried to use a manufacturer's policy as a defence because it would make absolute nonsense of consumer protection legislation.

He did say (or imply) they apply the same policy to washing machines and by implication to all other goods. ( AFAIK Humax don't make washing machines ). We are getting off topic again. The OP wished to replace his plug with a correctly wired and fused BS1362 13A plug and was advised by a retailer that this would invalidate his (or her)warranty. PUTTING IT SIMPLY THIS IS ABSOLUTE RUBBISH, and the statement should be unconditionally withdrawn. If the retailer has to pay for the repairs out of hiw own pocket because of the vagaries of the sale conditions of his suppliers that's up them to sort out, it's not a valid excuse to break consumer law.