United Colours of Benetton.... I saw it pretty much as marketing, if a little controversial. But hey, it all worked out in the end.
Yasmina's Racist Comment "Controversy"
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i dont think it was racist to say it at all debra made something out of nothing to try and look good
When you are advertising something you want to appeal to as many people as possible. It follows that a mix of ages, sexes and ethnicity is the best option.
Originally Posted by HeidiB:
“When you are advertising something you want to appeal to as many people as possible. It follows that a mix of ages, sexes and ethnicity is the best option.”
“When you are advertising something you want to appeal to as many people as possible. It follows that a mix of ages, sexes and ethnicity is the best option.”
Exactly, Yasmina was in no way being racist, it was a basic principal of marketing and advertising, appeal to the widest audience possible
Originally Posted by Agent Krycek:
“Exactly, Yasmina was in no way being racist, it was a basic principal of marketing and advertising, appeal to the widest audience possible”
“Exactly, Yasmina was in no way being racist, it was a basic principal of marketing and advertising, appeal to the widest audience possible”
I agree with this. She simply didn't phrase her concern eloquently whatsoever and maybe over the phone - as some things do - it sounded much more blunt and offensive than Yasmina might have meant it to.
She was just making a sensible marketing point. After all, how many times have people sat around and said "I really think we should have a Black/Asian/Chinese.... in the photo or we look like we're only advertising for the White population and it looks a bit racist (and we'll have all the minority whinge groups up in arms)"?
Yet, when Yasmina says the same, but in reverse )suggesting they should have a White person in the mix, someone goes off at the deep end about it accusations of racism are still bandied about.
Talk about double standards! Heads - idiocy wins, tails - common sense and logic loses
Yet, when Yasmina says the same, but in reverse )suggesting they should have a White person in the mix, someone goes off at the deep end about it accusations of racism are still bandied about.
Talk about double standards! Heads - idiocy wins, tails - common sense and logic loses
Debra is in that white bleeding heart mould, most recently displayed by Jo Brand. They feel the need to be upset "on behalf of " whatever group - as one of the panel on You're fired said: What was her motive?
Originally Posted by Aleksis:
“I agree with this. She simply didn't phrase her concern eloquently whatsoever and maybe over the phone - as some things do - it sounded much more blunt and offensive than Yasima might have meant it to.”
“I agree with this. She simply didn't phrase her concern eloquently whatsoever and maybe over the phone - as some things do - it sounded much more blunt and offensive than Yasima might have meant it to.”
I honestly don't think there was any way that anyone who looks even remotely White could have suggested there were enough Black and Asian representatives and let's have a White one without some devisive idiot somewhere shouting "racism".
How very telling that the moment someone suggests a White person should be included there is a cry of outrage and the proposer's only recourse to validate her point is to deny being White. LOL!
Well, it just goes to show who the oppressed majority is nowadays, doesn't it
I agree with Trevor Nelson and Co on the spin off show. There was nothing in the comment really when seen in its context. Don't agree with her Iranian comment but I can't see how this was dubbed a 'controversial race row''.
Originally Posted by Davemba:
“Debra is in that white bleeding heart mould, most recently displayed by Jo Brand. They feel the need to be upset "on behalf of " whatever group - as one of the panel on You're fired said: What was her motive?”
“Debra is in that white bleeding heart mould, most recently displayed by Jo Brand. They feel the need to be upset "on behalf of " whatever group - as one of the panel on You're fired said: What was her motive?”
I agree, they make me sick, the lot of them.
Originally Posted by SomebodytoLove:
“Imho there was only one person who came out of that spat looking like a clown and that was Debra.”
“Imho there was only one person who came out of that spat looking like a clown and that was Debra.”
Yep, that was my take on it too. It was a reasonable marketing point, but she just flew off the handle making a scene for the camera "oh, look at me. I'm so non-racist I am"
Mona saying she was fine with it says all we need to know really.
But what I didn't agree with as Yasmina saying "of course I can say that, I'm Iranian" as though racism doesn't apply to non-Brits.
But what I didn't agree with as Yasmina saying "of course I can say that, I'm Iranian" as though racism doesn't apply to non-Brits.
Originally Posted by SamW25:
“Mona saying she was fine with it says all we need to know really.
But what I didn't agree with as Yasmina saying "of course I can say that, I'm Iranian" as though racism doesn't apply to non-Brits.”
“Mona saying she was fine with it says all we need to know really.
But what I didn't agree with as Yasmina saying "of course I can say that, I'm Iranian" as though racism doesn't apply to non-Brits.”
Why? She doesn't speak for an entire ethnic minority.
Originally Posted by SamW25:
“Mona saying she was fine with it says all we need to know really.
But what I didn't agree with as Yasmina saying "of course I can say that, I'm Iranian" as though racism doesn't apply to non-Brits.”
“Mona saying she was fine with it says all we need to know really.
But what I didn't agree with as Yasmina saying "of course I can say that, I'm Iranian" as though racism doesn't apply to non-Brits.”
Eh?
Is this not abit contradictory. If you disagree with Yasmina's comment on being Iranian what relevance above anyone else does the fact that Mona had no problem with it have?
Seems to me as though they didn't want the ugly guy advertising, rather than there be any issue with race.
Yep, it was pretty obvious they just wanted Philip in the add instead of Noorul because he's better looking and was more involved in creating the product, they listed a couple of reasons and Debra just jumped on the race one to make herself look good (would take a lot to do that.)
This was all about Debra wanting to look PC. Yasmina diidn't want to say Nooral was not a good looking as Philip so just said about having a white person. Although as others have said as a marketing philosophy it was the correct decision as it would look to be aimed at a wider section of society.
Debra should be ashamed.
Debra should be ashamed.
Originally Posted by Aleksis:
“Why? She doesn't speak for an entire ethnic minority.”
“Why? She doesn't speak for an entire ethnic minority.”
No, but if someone there at the time of the event, to see it fully in context and to get the point across, wasn't offended and the only person to kick up a fuss was Debra, despite being in the car with an Asian man, then I think thats enough to suggest it isn't offensive.
Originally Posted by JonSkinnups:
“Eh?
Is this not abit contradictory. If you disagree with Yasmina's comment on being Iranian what relevance above anyone else does the fact that Mona had no problem with it have?”
“Eh?
Is this not abit contradictory. If you disagree with Yasmina's comment on being Iranian what relevance above anyone else does the fact that Mona had no problem with it have?”
No- I don't think her saying what she did about getting him off the poster was that bad, I just don't agree with her saying in response to "you can't say that", "yes I can, I'm Iranian".
That comes across as though she realised what Debra was getting at and suggested she could say stuff that causes offence because shes Iranian. But thats not to say what she said was even offensive in the first place.
I'm terrible at getting stuff like this across but hopefully you can see what I'm trying to say
I think Debra saw Yasmina as competition. The general perception of Debra is that she wants to be alpha female...
She tried to set the fall on Lorraine on her pitch and jumped on the "racism" issue with Yasmina. She clearly misread what Yas was saying to say make it sound completly out of context. Even, Nick picked up on Debra trying to control Yasmina on the photography.
She tried to set the fall on Lorraine on her pitch and jumped on the "racism" issue with Yasmina. She clearly misread what Yas was saying to say make it sound completly out of context. Even, Nick picked up on Debra trying to control Yasmina on the photography.
This post might seem a bit long, but please read it as it is a totally fair assessment and to get to the bottom of this issue may take a couple of minutes.
The whole argument shows how THICK Yasmina is and I will demonstrate how she has caused this whole ruckus due to her brainlessness. Just for the record, I have Pakistani parents and consider myself part-Pakistani and part-English, but not wholly one or the other.
Yasmina originally stated that she'd prefer Philip over Noorul as he was more attractive and said as much to Mona and Paula who agreed. At this point, no-one can accuse anyone of being racist. Okay, Noorul may be a bit gutted but hey, there's always someone better looking, whoever you are. It was nothing to do with race at all. When Yasmina tells her thoughts to the rest of the team, she is told that her argument is invalid as Noorul is good-looking enough to be in the poster.
But then...
All of a sudden, Yasmina brings race into the equation to strengthen her case by saying, "We've got to have a white person in there as well."
Now, this IS racism. She is saying that because Noorul is Asian, he can't be in the poster with Mona as she is black. This is your classic quota system. No-one would care if BOTH people in the poster were white nor call it racist, but if the person in charge was to say, "Well, we have to have two white people in it", then this is nothing but racism.
There is no reason why there has to be limits on a particular skin colour, unless the poster is for something which can only be truly portrayed by having only white people, or only black people, only oriental people, etc. (for example, you would want people of South-Asian descent to advertise something like "authentic Indian food" as the public would wonder why "authentic Indian food" is being cooked by people who aren't (or don't look) Indian. And by the same token, I, being part-Pakistani would not expect to get the role of someone called David Chang, as that simply would not suit. In these cases, anyone who cries 'Racism' is ridiculously out of touch with reality and deserves a beating).
Back to Yasmina - by saying, "We've got to have a white person in there as well", she has suggested that race is paramount. It would have been equally racist if she had said, "we've got to have a black person in there as well" or "we've got to have an Asian person in there as well" because there was no other reason for having a particular race other than race itself. If there was a business reason, as the panel on You're Fired claimed, then why didn't she say so over the phone (and even then you'd handle it in a sensitive manner - not saying, "they might think we're advertising for the ethnic minority sportswear club", which I genuinely feel is something Nick Griffin would say).
She exacerbates the problem by saying, "Well, I'm Iranian, so I can say it." Okay, so by being Iranian, she's not a "standard" racist (ie, one colour against another), but now reverse discriminating, which is still racism. And on top of this, Mona comes to Yasmina's 'rescue' by being "okay with it" as if it is fine for a person to be dropped due to the colour of their skin, as long as an 'ethinic minority' approves. The only reason Mona was fine with it was because of the real reason her and Yasmina wanted Philip (i.e. they thought he was better looking than Noorul) - which is absolutely okay and not racist. But I doubt Mona would be singing the same song if she was in the car with Debra and all she heard was "they might think we're advertising for the ethnic minority sportswear club". What I found amusing was that Mona's approval was all that anyone needed to comfort themselves. Anyone can be a victim or a culprit of racism regardless of race.
Debra was absolutely right to pull them up on this and unlike the panel on You're Fired, was not out to "prove something". Trevor Nelson claimed that they made a business decision - what business decision? What business decision was Debra told of? That "they might think we're advertising for the ethnic minority sportswear club"?
If that is what any sane person heard over the phone, they would have reacted in the same way.
In conclusion -
Yasmina - had a reasonably fair point about Philip maybe being a better option over Noorul due to Philip's perceived better looks. But when that point was dismissed (by Philip himself) she could only turn to race to push her agenda. While I'll give Yasmina the benefit of the doubt and say that I don't think she is racist, she was pretty ignorant and bringing race into the issue was incredibly thick of her. Her being Iranian makes no difference. That would be like spitting at every Chinese person just for being Chinese and then saying "I'm Chinese, so I can spit at them". Well if the only reason for spitting at them was just because of their race, this, by definition, makes you a racist.
Mona - did not do anyone any favours by condoning what was said.
Debra - was absolutely right, but unfortunately if people of Trevor Nelson are to be believed, then we are living in a sad world.
The whole argument shows how THICK Yasmina is and I will demonstrate how she has caused this whole ruckus due to her brainlessness. Just for the record, I have Pakistani parents and consider myself part-Pakistani and part-English, but not wholly one or the other.
Yasmina originally stated that she'd prefer Philip over Noorul as he was more attractive and said as much to Mona and Paula who agreed. At this point, no-one can accuse anyone of being racist. Okay, Noorul may be a bit gutted but hey, there's always someone better looking, whoever you are. It was nothing to do with race at all. When Yasmina tells her thoughts to the rest of the team, she is told that her argument is invalid as Noorul is good-looking enough to be in the poster.
But then...
All of a sudden, Yasmina brings race into the equation to strengthen her case by saying, "We've got to have a white person in there as well."
Now, this IS racism. She is saying that because Noorul is Asian, he can't be in the poster with Mona as she is black. This is your classic quota system. No-one would care if BOTH people in the poster were white nor call it racist, but if the person in charge was to say, "Well, we have to have two white people in it", then this is nothing but racism.
There is no reason why there has to be limits on a particular skin colour, unless the poster is for something which can only be truly portrayed by having only white people, or only black people, only oriental people, etc. (for example, you would want people of South-Asian descent to advertise something like "authentic Indian food" as the public would wonder why "authentic Indian food" is being cooked by people who aren't (or don't look) Indian. And by the same token, I, being part-Pakistani would not expect to get the role of someone called David Chang, as that simply would not suit. In these cases, anyone who cries 'Racism' is ridiculously out of touch with reality and deserves a beating).
Back to Yasmina - by saying, "We've got to have a white person in there as well", she has suggested that race is paramount. It would have been equally racist if she had said, "we've got to have a black person in there as well" or "we've got to have an Asian person in there as well" because there was no other reason for having a particular race other than race itself. If there was a business reason, as the panel on You're Fired claimed, then why didn't she say so over the phone (and even then you'd handle it in a sensitive manner - not saying, "they might think we're advertising for the ethnic minority sportswear club", which I genuinely feel is something Nick Griffin would say).
She exacerbates the problem by saying, "Well, I'm Iranian, so I can say it." Okay, so by being Iranian, she's not a "standard" racist (ie, one colour against another), but now reverse discriminating, which is still racism. And on top of this, Mona comes to Yasmina's 'rescue' by being "okay with it" as if it is fine for a person to be dropped due to the colour of their skin, as long as an 'ethinic minority' approves. The only reason Mona was fine with it was because of the real reason her and Yasmina wanted Philip (i.e. they thought he was better looking than Noorul) - which is absolutely okay and not racist. But I doubt Mona would be singing the same song if she was in the car with Debra and all she heard was "they might think we're advertising for the ethnic minority sportswear club". What I found amusing was that Mona's approval was all that anyone needed to comfort themselves. Anyone can be a victim or a culprit of racism regardless of race.
Debra was absolutely right to pull them up on this and unlike the panel on You're Fired, was not out to "prove something". Trevor Nelson claimed that they made a business decision - what business decision? What business decision was Debra told of? That "they might think we're advertising for the ethnic minority sportswear club"?
If that is what any sane person heard over the phone, they would have reacted in the same way.
In conclusion -
Yasmina - had a reasonably fair point about Philip maybe being a better option over Noorul due to Philip's perceived better looks. But when that point was dismissed (by Philip himself) she could only turn to race to push her agenda. While I'll give Yasmina the benefit of the doubt and say that I don't think she is racist, she was pretty ignorant and bringing race into the issue was incredibly thick of her. Her being Iranian makes no difference. That would be like spitting at every Chinese person just for being Chinese and then saying "I'm Chinese, so I can spit at them". Well if the only reason for spitting at them was just because of their race, this, by definition, makes you a racist.
Mona - did not do anyone any favours by condoning what was said.
Debra - was absolutely right, but unfortunately if people of Trevor Nelson are to be believed, then we are living in a sad world.
Originally Posted by SamW25:
“No, but if someone there at the time of the event, to see it fully in context and to get the point across, wasn't offended and the only person to kick up a fuss was Debra, despite being in the car with an Asian man, then I think thats enough to suggest it isn't offensive.
No- I don't think her saying what she did about getting him off the poster was that bad, I just don't agree with her saying in response to "you can't say that", "yes I can, I'm Iranian".
That comes across as though she realised what Debra was getting at and suggested she could say stuff that causes offence because shes Iranian. But thats not to say what she said was even offensive in the first place.
I'm terrible at getting stuff like this across but hopefully you can see what I'm trying to say”
“No, but if someone there at the time of the event, to see it fully in context and to get the point across, wasn't offended and the only person to kick up a fuss was Debra, despite being in the car with an Asian man, then I think thats enough to suggest it isn't offensive.
No- I don't think her saying what she did about getting him off the poster was that bad, I just don't agree with her saying in response to "you can't say that", "yes I can, I'm Iranian".
That comes across as though she realised what Debra was getting at and suggested she could say stuff that causes offence because shes Iranian. But thats not to say what she said was even offensive in the first place.
I'm terrible at getting stuff like this across but hopefully you can see what I'm trying to say
”
I agree with your reasons for disagreeing with Yasmina's comment. I just don't get why after saying that you think Mona having no problem with it told us everything about the situation unless Mona was the only one present with Jasmina at the time. I thought there were others there as well in which case Mona's view of the situation is just the same as everyone else who agreed with her.
Originally Posted by CXC3000:
“What ?!
So if you're Iranian, you can say what you like ?”
“What ?!
So if you're Iranian, you can say what you like ?”
Just rewatching the clip and, there was no need to even mention "ethnic minorities" as it had nothing to do do with the task. The fact that she said it says a lot about issues she has about herself, which she should tackle instead of letting fly. She might not think it's offensive, but, some people might be offended, and I agreed with what Debra said.
Originally Posted by JonSkinnups:
“I agree with your reasons for disagreeing with Yasmina's comment. I just don't get why after saying that you think Mona having no problem with it told us everything about the situation unless Mona was the only one present with Jasmina at the time. I thought there were others there as well in which case Mona's view of the situation is just the same as everyone else who agreed with her.”
“I agree with your reasons for disagreeing with Yasmina's comment. I just don't get why after saying that you think Mona having no problem with it told us everything about the situation unless Mona was the only one present with Jasmina at the time. I thought there were others there as well in which case Mona's view of the situation is just the same as everyone else who agreed with her.”
Its because I don't see why its offensive and Mona didn't find it offensive. If Yasmina said an objectively racist and offensive comment, and Mona didn't say anything, for Debra to say "you can't say that" and Yasmina to say "I can, I'm Iranian" then I think my point makes a little more sense.
Personally speaking, if the task was about an ad campaign and the photo was the main part of it then it would have been a reasonable consideration. This week it was about the product so all that nonsense didn't matter anyway.
Having said that, it wasn't racist in the slightest. It wasn't 'good business sense' on Yas' part either, mind, because she only said that because her and Mona thought Noorul was ugly (and they had a good point tbf lol).
What was apparent however, is that Yasmina isn't good with words and her bluntness can and will cause offense. I.e. saying it looked like an ethnic minority appreciation something or rather and the comment 'Im iranian I'm allowed to say it.'
Also, although I don't really like Debra at all, she's getting a lot of stick for getting offended. Is she not entitled to be offended because she's white or are only ethnic minorities allowed to be offended by what they perceive to be racist? A lot of people assume she's being PC because she's white but maybe she was offended? If she wasn't white who knows, maybe people might not be reacting so negatively towards her reaction?
Having said that, it wasn't racist in the slightest. It wasn't 'good business sense' on Yas' part either, mind, because she only said that because her and Mona thought Noorul was ugly (and they had a good point tbf lol).
What was apparent however, is that Yasmina isn't good with words and her bluntness can and will cause offense. I.e. saying it looked like an ethnic minority appreciation something or rather and the comment 'Im iranian I'm allowed to say it.'
Also, although I don't really like Debra at all, she's getting a lot of stick for getting offended. Is she not entitled to be offended because she's white or are only ethnic minorities allowed to be offended by what they perceive to be racist? A lot of people assume she's being PC because she's white but maybe she was offended? If she wasn't white who knows, maybe people might not be reacting so negatively towards her reaction?
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