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Old 09-04-2009, 14:17
secessionman
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Would like some advice on the following please?

Late 2008 I made a claim for JSA and Housing Benefit, both of which were approved.

I had been out of work for a few months prior to that but hadn't claimed due to the fact that my girlfriend had a Visa application pending and I knew that if successful she would not be eligible for public funds, and thought that the same applied to myself.

I applied to have my JSA and Housing Benefit backdated to the point I lost my job - the JSA was rejected but the Housing Benefit approved.

I have appealed the JSA decision and this was rejected. I now have a tribunal scheduled for next week.

The problem is that they haven't supplied me with a reason for my claim being rejected, and I can't find any guidelines on the internet anywhere.

I can prove (or already have proved) that...
1) I was eligible for JSA from the date of my backdate request.
2) I had a genuine belief that I had good reason for not claiming.
3) I was actively seeking work during the period referred to.

What I don't want to do is go the tribunal and find that there is a technicality on which they can dismiss my claim.

Surely there are cases where JSA can be backdated, and if I don't meet the criteria then it would be helpful to know why.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-04-2009, 14:41
Magic8Ball
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Surely there are cases where JSA can be backdated, and if I don't meet the criteria then it would be helpful to know why.
I was under the impression, although it has been well over a decade since I last signed on, that JSA was only paid from the day you first contacted them. They arrange an interview and all that for you, but the payments were only backdated from the day of first contact.

I was unemployed for something like 6 months (living off savings) before I contacted them, and I wasn't allowed to backdate the claim for those 6 months.
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Old 09-04-2009, 15:05
sharkeybabe
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I was under the impression, although it has been well over a decade since I last signed on, that JSA was only paid from the day you first contacted them. They arrange an interview and all that for you, but the payments were only backdated from the day of first contact.

I was unemployed for something like 6 months (living off savings) before I contacted them, and I wasn't allowed to backdate the claim for those 6 months.
This is what happened to me. I was made redundant and got a package and my OH also worked so at the time (about 2 years ago) I didnt really need to claim. When I did I was told on the phone when I was answering all the questions they ask you and they said that the date of my JSA claim was the day that I contacted them to start claiming.

Try out http://direct.gov.uk

hope this helps.
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Old 09-04-2009, 15:17
secessionman
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The very fact that they....

1) Allow you to apply to have the claim backdated.
2) Allow you appeal this decision, and
3) Provide you with the opportunity to have an independant Tribunal....

makes me certain there must be certain circumstances in which they will allow a backdated claim.

The only thing is that no-one seems to be able to tell me what those circumstances are, which is making preparing for the tribunal very difficult.
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Old 09-04-2009, 15:39
liquidJP
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The very fact that they....

1) Allow you to apply to have the claim backdated.
2) Allow you appeal this decision, and
3) Provide you with the opportunity to have an independant Tribunal....

makes me certain there must be certain circumstances in which they will allow a backdated claim.

The only thing is that no-one seems to be able to tell me what those circumstances are, which is making preparing for the tribunal very difficult.

Because if they told people what those circumstances were everyone would ensure they applied to them!

All you can do is prepare your case and wait for the tribunals decision. Thou I am sure the questions they will ask is having been aproved:
- Why did you not claim?
- If you were unsure if you were eligable why did you not ask rather than assume someone else's situation applied to you?

If you were aproved and didn't claim i think the answer will be tough luck! You obviously didn't need the money to live (ie you are still alive!) so why should you get a big backpayment at the taxpayers expence?
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Old 09-04-2009, 16:19
Deb11
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There are certain circumstances when benfit claims can be backdated - the rules are complex and change for regularly for different benefits.

You really need to get some information from a benefits specialist such as CAB or other advice agency
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Old 10-04-2009, 15:45
secessionman
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If you were aproved and didn't claim i think the answer will be tough luck! You obviously didn't need the money to live (ie you are still alive!) so why should you get a big backpayment at the taxpayers expence?
It's when I see comments like this that I realise some people live in their own little bubble, never believing anything untoward can happen to them, whilst being completely oblivious to all that is going on around them. Have you read the news lately?

After 20 years in the same career (15 at management level) I found myself made redundant, and the serious personal issue documented in #1 compounded the problem. I have paid enough in taxes over the years not to feel guilty about getting a little back in return in my hour of need.

To insinuate that I am a scrounger, and looking for a windfall at taxpayers expense couldn't be further from the truth.

Am I seeking to obtain what I was legally entitled to all along? Too bloody right I am, and if you ever found yourself in the same situation I don't doubt that you'd feel the same.
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Old 10-04-2009, 16:50
jimmya12345
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I applied for JSA after i left my work, and they refused it, and I applied a few months later and this time they approved it, and I claimed a backdated sum based on the fact that they should have approved it the first time round, and they agreed and I got a lump sum for that dated from the first time I applied.
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Old 26-05-2009, 18:03
RonnieG
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It's when I see comments like this that I realise some people live in their own little bubble, never believing anything untoward can happen to them, whilst being completely oblivious to all that is going on around them. Have you read the news lately?

After 20 years in the same career (15 at management level) I found myself made redundant, and the serious personal issue documented in #1 compounded the problem. I have paid enough in taxes over the years not to feel guilty about getting a little back in return in my hour of need.

To insinuate that I am a scrounger, and looking for a windfall at taxpayers expense couldn't be further from the truth.

Am I seeking to obtain what I was legally entitled to all along? Too bloody right I am, and if you ever found yourself in the same situation I don't doubt that you'd feel the same.
Hi Secession man
I am wondering how you got on as I really understand what you are going through. I am appealing because I was made redundant and had a package and savings and wrongly assumed I would be able to temp as a PA/Sec with no problems...... I didn't even think about signing on etc for 3 months so asked for backdating and was given the form by the JCP and told everyone is entitled to it but you won't get it! (So why give me a form??????!) I got a rejection letter and have found out from CAB there are 4 grounds for appeal, briefly 1) illness/disability 2) misdirection or wrong advice by JCP/union official/DWP 3) problems communicating and 4) and here it is verbatim as this is what I believe I will have to use "the client or her partner may have been given written information about her income or capital by her employer or former employer or by a bank or building society. If the information led her to believe that her claim for benefit would be unsuccessful she will be able to backdate her claim".

CAB read this out from something they had and then added that "ignorance" is not a reason.

I was not given a reason for rejection apart from "you did not have a good reason for the delay".

I have emailed my local MP for assistance - one David Cameron! I am hoping that with the expenses 'scandal' his office will be able to intervene!!!

Let me know how you have got on. My employer gave me no HR advice, my employment agencies didn't even know about 'contributions' JSA nor the employer. So it just goes to show that 'ignorance is not so bliss' on this occasion.

Hope this helps.
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Old 26-05-2009, 20:24
Scaramouche
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There are two parts to a backdating decision for JSA:

The Labour Market decision, which is made by the Adviser in your local office. This requires you to demonstrate that you were actively seeking and available for work during the period for which you are applying. You need to show that you took the minimum weekly steps as outlined in your Jobseekers' Agreement.

The Good Cause decision, made by the benefits processors. This involves looking at the reason for not having applied at an earlier date. Not knowing that you could is not normally acceptable as it's seen as your responsibility to ask.

The most commonly accepted reason is that you were misinformed by a Jobcentre officer, although I have seen misinformation from other advice agencies (such as the CAB) accepted where it's in writing.

I'd guess (my opinion only) that if you satisfied the labour market conditions your claim was rejected because you said you didn't know you could apply. To the decision maker, this is your fault for not having asked.

Hope this helps and good luck.

edit: just noticed this is an old bumped thread. Oh well, hope someone finds it useful.
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Old 26-05-2009, 21:54
Flaxseed
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I work for the Dept. for Work and Pensions, in the benefits delivery centre, but ive only just started there so i cant offer any advice cos i dont really know anything yet! lol.
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Old 31-05-2009, 16:54
RonnieG
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Hi and thanks! I may as well go through the appeal process as I have nothing to lose apart from nearly 700! I'm thankfully working til end June for the MOD (so far dreadful but it's money!). I just find it disappointing that I have done all the right things job search etc but yes, ignorance is not acceptable by them! Interestingly i got into a conversation with someone on Friday whose wife's backdated claim was accepted and her reason was the same as mine! Oh well.....
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Old 31-05-2009, 16:55
RonnieG
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If you do find out anything that may help I would appreciate it! It would be nice to think that someone might be on my side for a chance!
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Old 31-05-2009, 19:16
Michelle12
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They only accept backdated claims in exceptional cases. It's too late now but you should have just said it was because of a bereavement in the family because they tend to loosen up where death is concerned. I know someone who did this and their backdated claim was successful, they went back a few months, and they didn't ask her for proof.

Saying 'you didn't know' isn't going to convince them but good luck anyway, hope it goes well.
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Old 31-05-2009, 19:47
scousetechie
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When I was made redundant last year I had spent well over 12 months trying to resurrect a company that was obviously going down the tubes. It was like death by a thousand cuts!

Anyway I had 2 weeks off after I finished just because I really needed it. When I told the JCP about it they said that they couldn't backdate my claim money-wise but they did agree to pay my stamp for the 2 weeks that I had taken off.

I was happy with that.
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Old 15-06-2010, 13:36
Babarella
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Hello

i have also had avery hard time finding out what the grounds for backdating a JSA claim are.

After some serious web hunting i found this on a gov site.

i hope this helps someone.

" Your JSA claim can only be backdated for a maximum of 3 months even if you meet the above conditions.
However, you may also receive backdated JSA for a maximum of 1 month if you can show that you had "good cause" for delaying your claim for one of the following reasons (SS (C&P) Regs, reg 19(6)&(7)):
the ES office where you "would be expected to make a claim was closed and alternative arrangements were not available"
you could not attend "the appropriate office due to difficulties with [your] normal mode of transport and there was no reasonable alternative available"
there "were adverse postal conditions"
you were in receipt of another benefit before claiming JSA and the "notification of expiry of entitlement to that benefit was not sent to [you] before the date that [your] entitlement expired"
you had claimed JSA in your own right within a month of separating from your partner
a close relative (i.e. partner, parent, son, daughter, brother or sister) died in the month before your claim was made.
"
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Old 15-06-2010, 13:38
Babarella
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apologies for submitting the wrong block of text above, here is the criteria for backdating for three months.


"In order for your backdated claim to be successful you will have to show in the JSA5 form that you "could not reasonably have expected to make the claim earlier" and that you also had "good cause" for delaying your claim for one of the following reasons (SS (C&P) Regs, reg 19(4)&(5)):
You have communication difficulties (i.e. learning, language or literacy difficulties, deaf, or blind), you are a carer for someone who is ill or disabled, or you were dealing with a domestic emergency and it was not reasonable for you to get help from another person to make your claim.
You were mistakenly led to believe that a claim for benefit would not succeed on the basis of:
information given to you by ES or BA staff
"written advice by a solicitor or other professional adviser, a medical practitioner, a local authority, or a person working in a Citizens Advice Bureau or a similar advice agency"
"written information about [your] income or capital by [your] employer or former employer, or by a bank or building society".
You were unable to attend the Jobcentre due to adverse weather conditions.
Your JSA claim can only be backdated for a maximum of 3 months even if you meet the above conditions. "
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Old 15-06-2010, 14:07
Arsenic_candy
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It's when I see comments like this that I realise some people live in their own little bubble, never believing anything untoward can happen to them, whilst being completely oblivious to all that is going on around them. Have you read the news lately?

After 20 years in the same career (15 at management level) I found myself made redundant, and the serious personal issue documented in #1 compounded the problem. I have paid enough in taxes over the years not to feel guilty about getting a little back in return in my hour of need.

To insinuate that I am a scrounger, and looking for a windfall at taxpayers expense couldn't be further from the truth.

Am I seeking to obtain what I was legally entitled to all along? Too bloody right I am, and if you ever found yourself in the same situation I don't doubt that you'd feel the same.
So you were able to live off savings then I presume. As you are still alive you were able to survive by whatever means.

Regardless of what you put in and your 'entitlement'.

Get off your soap box.
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Old 15-06-2010, 16:53
FakeFlower
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Dont know any in depth info, but just wanted to say that i got JSA backdated due to a death in the family.

Although I would never ever contemplate it again.... it was not worth having to explain to the woman at job centre in tears then be phoned up on 3 seperate occasions to explain the situation to different people. You'd have thought someone would just make a note of the file. I was pretty angry at their insensitivity.
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Old 16-06-2010, 16:10
Fred Splunge
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I'm having fun and games (not!) with JobCentrePlus over a backdated claim too.

I made my original claim online on a Sunday (I was made redundant on the Friday prior). At the end of the process I got an email telling me that my claim had been submitted, and I was given the option to save a copy of the claim to my PC, which I did.

I didn't hear anything from the JobCentre, so phoned them on I think it was the Thursday. They denied knowledge of my claim, so had to do it all over the phone. I asked them to put a note on my file to the effect that I had submitted an online claim which hadn't registered with them, and that I'd be requesting it was backdated accordingly.

Got the letter that everyone else seems to have had saying that I'd not shown good cause for the delay in claiming, blah blah blah. I phoned and was told that the first step was to write to them requesting that they reconsider in light of the key facts that I consider they overlooked.

Did that, the very next day, recorded delivery.

Two weeks later, no response (I had one month from the letter to make my request), so phoned them. They have no trace of my letter! Went to JobCentre today and they have faxed my letter, and a copy of the recorded delivery receipt to the appropriate centre and they've promised it will be looked at ASAP, but I'm not holding my breath.

Next step will be to formally appeal, but I'm hoping it won't get that far, I'm so stressed it's unbelievable.

Personally, I think it's policy to automatically decline a backdated claim request, and probably to automatically decline the reconsideration request. They probably only even give it a passing glance if you go to the trouble of appealing. I imagine most people have given up before then.
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Old 22-06-2010, 16:00
Fred Splunge
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So .... some sort of miracle appears to have taken place.

After much to'ing and fro'ing, including letters and faxes which I've struggled to get JCP to acknowledge receipt of; they have, after reconsideration, backdated my JSA claim!

It feels very good, and proves that it can be done.
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