Was there anything in this special's desert scenes that really warranted shipping a crew and double-decker bus abroad?

I am quite sure that a combination of practical (a stage with a ton of sand, a super-bright static rear projection and careful lighting) and in-camera (judicious lense choice) effects, that those scenes could have been filmed in a warehouse.

How could the BBC justify the expense of a bus, 6 cast or so and gawd knows how many crewmembers to depict a desert, you know 'sand and sky'.

I get the feeling that if the location had required any part of the UK other than Wales, such as Stratford Upon Avon, London, Manchester Victoria toilets, then this crew would have found a way to make those shoots take place in Wales.

"Need a bit of sand? Let's go abroad and blow the budget, we'll make sure it's doubly fubarred 'cos we'll have to CGI out all those inevitable messy footprints in the sand."

I kinda agree with you to an extent on that point. Possibly could have been some cgi wizardry done however I think RTD and the outgoing team want to "leave with a bang". The location is stunning, however I can't help think that if they had made the planet different, they may have been able to afford another episode.

What's done is done, and I think it looked pretty stunning. It's moving forward and pushing the boundaries. Can't wait till November now!

I'd assume going to Dubai was cheaper then filming it in Wales then trying to make it look realistic, due to the HD factor.

Im guessing they had a full season budget for the four 'specials' so decided to blow as much as they could though there are closer deserts they could of chosen, plus cgi was probably more expensive and they rarley do a good job with it (see the bus and the two suns for example (i could've photoshopped better lol). but anyway im sure they'll get the money back with syndication rights.

Also it's reasonable to assume the UAE government gave them a tax break they wouldn't have got filming in Wales.

Unless you've seen detailed accounts for this episode and also know what it would have cost to do it in Wales, I don't think you can claim it's a horrendous waste, although of course it may have been.

The write-up in the Radio Times throws some light on it - they were filmimg in February, so a beach in Wales would have looked like a beach in Wales. And I guess they needed to bright hot sun, as well as the sand.

It would be incredibly cheap filming in Dubai compared to Wales.

When I used to live in Dubai, the local rugby club hired a Double Decker which some enterprising soul had imported. That was back in the early 80's. No reason why there are not more buses out there for one reason or another.

Shooting in Dubai would have been cheaper than faking it in a studio. There is nothing like shooting in a real location and I for one appreciate the fact they made the effort after waiting patiently fora proper off Earth story. If they have the budget for once why not?

Ok times are tough so maybe the BBC should curb its spending. However, I look at it this way, its not as if any budget saved on Doctor Who is going to be spent on creating original drama or given to charity, it will probably be absorbed up into fat cat salaries instead. Given the rest of us have to watch what we spend and need to entertain ourselves at home, why not have an expensive episode of Doctor Who to enjoy?

Yes, the OP clearly hasn't done any research at all....

I'm sure they will point to the 8 million viewers that tuned in as justification.

I thought the scenes filmed in Dubai looked excellent. To have replicated that back in a Welsh quarry supplemented by CGI would not have given the same effect. In fact last night's Dr Who actually had some of the worst CGI since the show returned.

Well personally I don't think the OP has, a lot of conjecture.

I work on locations for shoots and it is always better to do the real thing, it pays of vastly in comparison to faking it in a warehouse or studio that in some cases can be very expensive. I have learnt in the last few years it is more expensive to shoot in the UK than in other countries.

I watched the episode in HD so certainly benefitted from the huge expase of the Dubai desert.

best.

I think you're missing an important point.....

This is the BBC we're talking about here. If the money had not been spent on sending the crew to Dubai, it would have gone on replacing the wood paneling in the DG's office, Ross's salary or another car for Clarkson to pimp as a boat.

Which would you prefer ?

D

double post

To some extent I agree. Having seen how messy the dessert looked and how bad the weather was on confidential, I'm pretty sure they used a lot of CGI to make it look other worldy anyway.

The hub set is easily emptyable (as was seen in the next doctor when it became a victorian workhouse) and just filling that with sand, putting a green screen around it and using beaches or hiring a field, laying down a huge mat and covering it with sand would have probably done the job for the running shot.

I don't begrudge them doing it the way they did though, just think it would have worked just aswell and maybe allowed for some more stuff with the costs of shipping everyone abroad, paying for the cast and crew to have hotel rooms in what is meant to be a very luxury, and therefore quite expensive (I assume) city.

It was good and seemed appropriate because it was a 'special', but obviously they couldn't do it in that filmic way in a series. The exceptions I can think of maybe are the episode in ancient Rome, though that was an existing set. Or the Manhattan 2-parter, but did that have the sweeping outdoor crane shots like in POD? .. the clear shots over the dunes into the distance in POD were great.

I'd be willing to bet that, had they done it in cgi, there would have been plenty of posts bemoaning the cheap-looking effects, and how it was obviously a cgi landscape, and how unreal it looked and so on ....

You know that's what would have happened.

Seeing as the Beeb is a publically funded broadcaster , is there any where we can view the budget of DW this year. That's with an eye on them having only 4 hours of airtime to fill with these specials in 09/10 , as opposed to around 13x45mins and 1 hour in each of the last four years. That may give us an answer as to why they were able to afford to go to Dubai.
For the record I thought the desert looked stunning.

I thought it was stunning too, and while I can only guess how good it would have looked filmed on a Welsh beach with CGI, I'd be surprised if it would be that good.

I'm very sad that there are only four episodes this year, but I love that each will be that big longer and glossier. The extra effort for each episode will pay dividends. I think it will leave the public very hungry for more at a time when another normal series might have become normal.

The location filming was done in February, so filming in the UK, in winter (reduced daylight hours) and snow in many areas was not an option.

Of course if it had been filmed in a UK quarry or beach there would now be threads and posts moaning about it looking cheap or fake, etc.

Not to mention the quality of winter daylight, and the low sun (if there is any) - hardly conducive to that "hot desert feel", regardless as to the quality of any CGI work or additional lighting.


Very true!

If the BBC had filmed in Wales and used CGI to "enhance" the shots then, I'm sure, this board would have been full of messages whinging about how rubbish the effects were.

The quality of the light being very different to a typical British beach helped give the other-wordly feel. I know you can do amazing things to alter the look in post-production, but the less done, the better it looks.

Besides, if it was filmed on a UK beach, there would have been leaked photos of it long before the BBC press department were prepared for it.

Erm...you seem to be forgetting the 'time' factor?
The reason the episode's current CGI looked so bad was because production was VERY rushed. Filming started in January, and the episode has broadcast early April! Post-production didn't finish until this week (I'd put my money on it being finished a few hours before, there were a few questionable cuts and strange angles). The CGI was incredibly rushed, hence it looks so poor - if they'd had the timescale of a usual episode, it wouldn't have been a problem- we'd get 'Tooth and Claw' standard! But to add the burden of a convincing CGI environment on TOP of the CGI monsters? Impossible within the timescale.

I agree - the quality of light was something you just don't get in the UK (at least, not in my part of it!) and I think the effect was stunning - and I wasn't even watching in HD!