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Old 16-04-2009, 12:05
SkipTracer
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With the announcement from the BBC that we are now allowed to do one copy of BBC HD content from the internal Fox Sat drive to an external HDD or Blue Ray recorder, has anybody tried this yet.

I checked the HRD last night to see if this was true and sure enough the recordings I did of Doctor Who and Finding Nimo on Saturday (in FreeSat mode)did not have the usual “Enc” next to the recording. So with that in mind, today I copied over Nimo to an External drive formatted in EXT3 with no problems. So far so good but after trying to playback the recording from the external drive I get severe pixilation all over the screen.

I know the external drive I have can playback HD recording with no problem because I have done it in Non FreeSat mode and every thing is fine.

Has anyone else tried this yet and what results are you getting. If everybody else has this problem then I assume that the BBC folk have a problem with their software.
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Old 16-04-2009, 12:18
grahamlthompson
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With the announcement from the BBC that we are now allowed to do one copy of BBC HD content from the internal Fox Sat drive to an external HDD or Blue Ray recorder, has anybody tried this yet.

I checked the HRD last night to see if this was true and sure enough the recordings I did of Doctor Who and Finding Nimo on Saturday (in FreeSat mode)did not have the usual “Enc” next to the recording. So with that in mind, today I copied over Nimo to an External drive formatted in EXT3 with no problems. So far so good but after trying to playback the recording from the external drive I get severe pixilation all over the screen.

I know the external drive I have can playback HD recording with no problem because I have done it in Non FreeSat mode and every thing is fine.

Has anyone else tried this yet and what results are you getting. If everybody else has this problem then I assume that the BBC folk have a problem with their software.
Encrypted material won't replay from the usb drive, according to Bob_Cat the decryption overhead is too much for the drive. You should be able to upload it to another hdr though
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Old 16-04-2009, 12:36
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Encrypted material won't replay from the usb drive, according to Bob_Cat the decryption overhead is too much for the drive. You should be able to upload it to another hdr though
Have I got this right then? If I copy the content on the external drive back to the internal drive of the HDR it would playback with no problems.

If this is correct its great for long term archiving but with the copying back time? (It took about 45mins to copy over Nimo) it’s a pain.

I knew this was too good to be true.
Oh well, back to Non FreeSat mode we go.
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Old 16-04-2009, 13:12
carvell
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I've just done a quick 2 min test recording on BBC HD.

I still see the 'Enc' flag but it seems to transfer to USB fine (if slowly). You get disc with a cross next to it icon once it's been copied once, so you can't copy it again.
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Old 16-04-2009, 13:45
GaseousClay
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Have I got this right then? If I copy the content on the external drive back to the internal drive of the HDR it would playback with no problems.
I've just done a quick 2 min test recording on BBC HD.

I still see the 'Enc' flag but it seems to transfer to USB fine (if slowly). You get disc with a cross next to it icon once it's been copied once, so you can't copy it again.
I've just taken this a step futher. After transfering to my ext Hdd and got the same disc with cross icon the stb does however allow you to return the file to the Stb from the ext hdd so achieving back to the source drive is possible. However once this has been done the file cannot be copied futher

Additional Info: If you transfer to an ext hdd for achiving, when you come to transfer back to the stb as long as you chose to save the copy on the ext hdd you can re-transfer to the stb at a later date without restriction, though unless your transfer rate is too slow to watch directly from the ext I'm not sure whether this functionality is useful
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Old 16-04-2009, 13:51
grahamlthompson
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I've just taken this a step futher. After transfering to my ext Hdd and got the same disc with cross icon the stb does however allow you to return the file to the Stb from the ext hdd so achieving back to the source drive is possible .However once this has been done the file cannot be copied futher
Which ties in nicely with one I did earlier, If you rename all three files for a non encrypted HD recording and upload it the media list displays the original file name. Guess this must be in the sidecar files. I wonder if renaming the files and changing the filename in the sidecar file(s) would restore the one copy option.
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Old 16-04-2009, 14:19
GaseousClay
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Graham I've added some other info on my last post that you may have missed as you were responding as I was updating. As for the sidecar files I'm not sure if changing them would work or at least when this was discussed sometime back I found if I changed any of them the .ts file refused to play even if I restored the original information.
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Old 16-04-2009, 14:45
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Now I am some what confused. SkipTracer says that he managed to copy Nimo(sic) across to an external HDD and access the file.
So noticing that Carvell had got the ENC logo but still managed to copy a file across, I eagerly connected up my 60Gb HDD to the USB port and slected Nemo that I had recorded in HD and lo and behold it said straight away" cannot copy a file larger than 4GB"!

So question is did Skiptracer record Nimo(sic) in SD or HD and is there anyway in which we can tell if a file is larger than 4gb before we start to try and copy it over.

So it looks like I am going to have to get into SonT's version of external HDD and a Unix system to be able to archive anytrhing! Even Panasonics new Freesat Blu Ray recorder at Ł1000 will not overcome the 4gb limit!
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Old 16-04-2009, 14:49
carvell
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You're trying to copy to a FAT32 disk.

It needs to be formatted to the ext2 file format to copy files larger than 4GB.
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Old 16-04-2009, 14:58
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@Carvell

Thanks for that quick response. So I was right in thinking that I have to go to some form of unix. I have read some where that Access a UNix file system under a windows system (even with ext2 drivers loaded) can cause corruptions to the Unix disc.

Is this still the case? I had also read, though can not recall where that If you write the file to a unix disk, then the ENC flag is ignored uder the Unix system as it does not understand it.

Or am I totally barking up the wrong tree?
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Old 16-04-2009, 15:01
Hummyowner
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You're trying to copy to a FAT32 disk.

It needs to be formatted to the ext2 file format to copy files larger than 4GB.

I believe it has been reported before that ext2 does not work...has to be ext3
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Old 16-04-2009, 15:19
grahamlthompson
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@Carvell

Thanks for that quick response. So I was right in thinking that I have to go to some form of unix. I have read some where that Access a UNix file system under a windows system (even with ext2 drivers loaded) can cause corruptions to the Unix disc.

Is this still the case? I had also read, though can not recall where that If you write the file to a unix disk, then the ENC flag is ignored uder the Unix system as it does not understand it.

Or am I totally barking up the wrong tree?
Yes you can copy an enc file to a EXT3 drive (now using the Foxsat previously only by connecting the drive directly). It's not the enc flag that stops you it's the red cross. New BBC HD recordings have the enc flag but not the cross. Older recordings have both. It's still encrypted when transferred though.

On my recording list BBC HD recorded from 9/4 Wainwrights Coast To Coast is now archiveable

Last edited by grahamlthompson : 16-04-2009 at 15:30. Reason: Extra info
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Old 16-04-2009, 17:29
savvy
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............On my recording list BBC HD recorded from 9/4 Wainwrights Coast To Coast is now archiveable
Do you know how far back that this goes? I had assumed it was only 14/4, the date of Danielle's blog post, so is it retrospective with what's already on the box somehow? I can't see this, but would be great.

I have a 500GB USB HDD formatted to ext3, and the BBC series "Damages" in HD from Ep1 on my HDR HDD, as my wife doesn't want to start watching yet. It would be good to move this to USB as it is just eating space on my HDR.

Rgds.

Les.
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Old 16-04-2009, 17:33
GaseousClay
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Do you know how far back that this goes? I had assumed it was only 14/4, the date of Danielle's blog post, so is it retrospective with what's already on the box somehow?

Rgds.

Les.
Sadly not Savvy
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Old 16-04-2009, 17:38
savvy
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Bum But thanks for confirming anyway, GC.

This certainly makes a USB HDD a more useful addition/companion to the HDR, now, for those of us not ready to do the internal mod to a 1TB HDD yet

Rgds.

Les.
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Old 16-04-2009, 17:43
grahamlthompson
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Do you know how far back that this goes? I had assumed it was only 14/4, the date of Danielle's blog post, so is it retrospective with what's already on the box somehow? I can't see this, but would be great.

I have a 500GB USB HDD formatted to ext3, and the BBC series "Damages" in HD from Ep1 on my HDR HDD, as my wife doesn't want to start watching yet. It would be good to move this to USB as it is just eating space on my HDR.

Rgds.

Les.
Stick a usb drive in the foxsat goto file manager, the ones you can archive don't have the red cross. Be prepared for long transfer times though (in both directions) but apparently you can use the box while transferring.

Last edited by grahamlthompson : 16-04-2009 at 17:44. Reason: extra info
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Old 16-04-2009, 17:51
savvy
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Stick a usb drive in the foxsat goto file manager, the ones you can archive don't have the red cross. Be prepared for long transfer times though (in both directions) but apparently you can use the box while transferring.
So the "Enc" flag, and the "Copy Prohibited" flag are different?

Yes, I'd probably leave the box doing the archiving overnight when I go to bed.

I would presume that quickest transfer times (slightly) would be when leaving the box on a part-time channel, not broadcasting at that time?

Rgds.


Les.
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Old 16-04-2009, 18:05
savvy
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Hmmm...... I've just given the HD copying to USB a try.

All the Small Things, and Damages from Tuesday night 14/4, both have the disc icon with the red X, preventing me copying to USB. An SD programme recorded today has no icons at all, and will copy. I don't have any HD from today, yet.

Were BBC just "trying this out" for others to have had success with files from 9/4?

Rgds.


Les.
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Old 16-04-2009, 18:21
grahamlthompson
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Hmmm...... I've just given the HD copying to USB a try.

All the Small Things, and Damages from Tuesday night 14/4, both have the disc icon with the red X, preventing me copying to USB. An SD programme recorded today has no icons at all, and will copy. I don't have any HD from today, yet.

Were BBC just "trying this out" for others to have had success with files from 9/4?

Rgds.


Les.
Could it be they figured out how to do it on a programme basis. I have 3 archiveable

All The Small Things 14/4
Dr Who 11/4
Wainwrights Coast To Coast 9/4
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Old 16-04-2009, 18:37
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I have been doing a bit of experimenting this afternoon and have found, as Graham has stated, you can copy HD files back from the external drive to the HDR internal drive and these files/programmes play with no problems.

I have tried and succeeded with copying (in FreeSat mode) a 2 minute clip of Half Moon Investigations from the HDR to the external drive then from the external drive back to HDR... deleted the copied clip in the HDR then copied the clip from external drive back to HDR and repeated several times as there seems to be no limit on how many times you can do that.

So with the copy of the copy still in the HDR, I deleted the copy on the external drive then when back to the HDR where I tried to copy the clip back to the external drive but the green button refused to light.

As stated by many here the pain is the transfer times. Good idea about leaving the old Fox to it while you sleep but, will it turn itself off when it completes the task??
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Old 16-04-2009, 18:47
GaseousClay
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I have tried and succeeded with copying (in FreeSat mode) a 2 minute clip of Half Moon Investigations from the HDR to the external drive then from the external drive back to HDR... deleted the copied clip in the HDR then copied the clip from external drive back to HDR and repeated several times as there seems to be no limit on how many times you can do that.
you could have saved yourself the trouble I posted this at 13:45 post #5


Additional Info: If you transfer to an ext hdd for achiving, when you come to transfer back to the stb as long as you chose to save the copy on the ext hdd you can re-transfer to the stb at a later date without restriction, though unless your transfer rate is too slow to watch directly from the ext I'm not sure whether this functionality is useful
So with the copy of the copy still in the HDR, I deleted the copy on the external drive then when back to the HDR where I tried to copy the clip back to the external drive but the green button refused to light.

As stated by many here the pain is the transfer times. Good idea about leaving the old Fox to it while you sleep but, will it turn itself off when it completes the task??
I believe the box defaults to deleting the original file if the prompt isn't responded to that may prove troublesome if you intend to keep one copy on the ext hdd

Edit the box doesn't default as I stated above so it would be a case of the box staying powered up over night I thinks

Last edited by GaseousClay : 16-04-2009 at 18:58. Reason: added info
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Old 16-04-2009, 19:29
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you could have saved yourself the trouble I posted this at 13:45 post #5
Sorry Caseous I let that one slip through.

I believe the box defaults to deleting the original file if the prompt isn't responded to that may prove troublesome if you intend to keep one copy on the ext hdd

Edit the box doesn't default as I stated above so it would be a case of the box staying powered up over night I thinks
Your right when the box finishes copying it throws up the “do you or don’t you” want to delete then goes back to the file manager screen after about 10 seconds.
Don’t know what happens if the box is left idling for hours on end, you would think it would go to sleep.
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Old 16-04-2009, 19:41
GaseousClay
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Don’t know what happens if the box is left idling for hours on end, you would think it would go to sleep.
I guess you could set the box to go off using the time menu giving it enough time to complete the transfer but I'd wary to do that whilst it's left in the file manager
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Old 16-04-2009, 22:58
savvy
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Could it be they figured out how to do it on a programme basis. I have 3 archiveable

All The Small Things 14/4
Dr Who 11/4
Wainwrights Coast To Coast 9/4
My All The Small Things 14/4 has the red X and won't copy across.

I have the Narnia Code in Hd set for tonight, so I'll see if that's OK tomorrow.

Rgds.

Les
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Old 17-04-2009, 08:39
grahamlthompson
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My All The Small Things 14/4 has the red X and won't copy across.

I have the Narnia Code in Hd set for tonight, so I'll see if that's OK tomorrow.

Rgds.

Les
I noticed that, most peculiar. May be that what ever they did to the stb happened at different times or at different times on different transmitters
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