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Well Philip's done himself no favours this week.....


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Old 23-04-2009, 12:41
Karis
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How, exactly, has Phil stayed in?

I know they're keeping in the fiery ones for viewing figures, but really. He's arrogant, antagonistic, and clearly doesn't have an original (good) idea in his head.

I guess I answered my own question, really. 'cos Ben's still there (mind you, he has had a few good ideas)...
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Old 23-04-2009, 13:34
welsh ex pat
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Totally agree with the OP - Philip may have got away with it this week, possibly because he's done OK in some previous tasks and obviously always works hard to contribute something (often very misguided like Pantsman mind, but better than the shadow lurkers) - but his card's well and truly marked now with Nick in particular highlighting Philip's bullyboy attitude.


The one consistent feature I think you can identify in all previous winners is the ability to be team players, and that's something Philip totally lacks
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Old 23-04-2009, 14:00
mr.bojangles
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It wasn't his finest hour, and he does need to be less temperamental. I think the problem is that he's working alongside irritants like Lorraine, and people not contributing anything to the tasks or being just generally, um, pants (Noorul, possibly also Mona here), and unfortunately he does not have the ability to put up with this and so sulks and argues. I would like to see him working with some more capable candidates to see whether he would change.

But unless he really calms down, he could blow it, which is a shame as I think he has some ability. And even then, SAS I think is now unlikely to hire him. Claire, Jadine, even Saira to an extent calmed themselves down but were ultimately pipped to it by people less forthright.
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Old 23-04-2009, 15:18
ianbeany1989
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I think he needs to either be team leader or have a good team leader to show what he can do, but I still think he's one of the most capable candidates in there.
Lee had a similar attitude last year at times, but he excelled as TL and went on to win, and I think Phil can go far as well.
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Old 23-04-2009, 15:33
FlaviaCacake
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Without Phillips idea what other ideas did Ignite come up with? Exactly. The idea was 'pants' - Sorry couldnt help myself - but what else did anyone suggest? Phillip is extremely overbearing but without him Ignite would have come up with nothing.
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Old 23-04-2009, 16:00
GratingCheese
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Without Phillips idea what other ideas did Ignite come up with? Exactly. The idea was 'pants' - Sorry couldnt help myself - but what else did anyone suggest? Phillip is extremely overbearing but without him Ignite would have come up with nothing.
No, the team came up with nothing else for the very reason of Phillip being overbearing. He stifled the creativity.
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Old 23-04-2009, 16:09
FlaviaCacake
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No, the team came up with nothing else for the very reason of Phillip being overbearing. He stifled the creativity.
Yes. True. But what else was on the table? Philip showed he was overbearing but do you honestly think that any of the other ideas were viable? Also, Who else in that team has any thing like the conviction needed to actually present a good idea to the team? Philip may be flawed but there is no way you can blame him for the failure of the team. At least he contributed something. These people are supposed to be the best and brightest business brains in Britain. I dont much evidence of that in team Ignite.
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Old 23-04-2009, 16:13
Metal Mickey
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I couldn't make head or tail of what he was on about from the beginning...something about being naked with pants. That doesn't make sense. What on earth did he think that meant? Is there an explanation? Is he so inarticulate that he couldn't express the idea, whatever it was? Or is it that he is just plain daft, with a completely daft idea?
Nick got it right in the boardroom, when he said (something like) "They had an idea and tortured every bit of logic out of it." It was a stupid idea, but it came from the twin notions of a) if you wake up sleepy you might just put your pants on outside your trousers, and b) superheroes are famous for wearing pants outside their trousers.

That's a typical brainstorm idea that should have been jotted down and forgotten about, but because Phillip just wouldn't shut up about it, they stuck with it and had to pursue it to its ridiculous conclusion - "Garbage in, garbage out" as they say (even if the execution of the ad was actually quite competent.)

It was right that Kimberley went as she should have stopped it going that far, but Phillip's idea was never going to be anything but a loser...
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Old 23-04-2009, 16:14
Willie Wontie
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No, the team came up with nothing else for the very reason of Phillip being overbearing. He stifled the creativity.
Do you know that? Or are you just saying it because you don't like him?

One other person contributed an idea - the sour-faced girl (Lorraine?) suggested five different characters, each representing one of the ingredients, and SAS in the boardroom said that she obviously hadn't listened to the task details if that's all she had come up with, because the remit said one character and one character only.

Now, if you know Howard or Kimberley or Noorul or Mona personally, and can confirm that they definitely did have other ideas for characters which they weren't allowed to suggest because Philip stopped them from speaking up, then let us in on the details. But if you are simply saying what you are saying because you don't like Philip (i.e. it is conjecture on your part) then don't post false information as if you know it to be true.

If anybody else had had any ideas at all, and Kimberley had been made aware of these ideas, she would have used that as a weapon against Philip in the boardroom when there were only the three of them sat in there. But she said nothing when he claimed that he was the only one who came up with any character ideas at all.

If any of the other three team members had had an idea, they would have mentioned it when the six of them were being given a dressing down once the other team had been sent off for their Laughing Yoga session. Not one of them opened their mouths. Noorul, Mona and Howard didn't say a dicky bird. Which suggests not that they had been bullied out of using their ideas, but more likely that they had no ideas to contribute in the first place.
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Old 23-04-2009, 16:21
FlaviaCacake
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If anybody else had had any ideas at all, and Kimberley had been made aware of these ideas, she would have used that as a weapon against Philip in the boardroom when there were only the three of them sat in there. But she said nothing when he claimed that he was the only one who came up with any character ideas at all.

If any of the other three team members had had an idea, they would have mentioned it when the six of them were being given a dressing down once the other team had been sent off for their Laughing Yoga session. Not one of them opened their mouths. Noorul, Mona and Howard didn't say a dicky bird. Which suggests not that they had been bullied out of using their ideas, but more likely that they had no ideas to contribute in the first place.
Nicely put.

Team Ignite are pretty much useless. I dread to think what kind of nonsense they're going to get up to next week. Philip is the only one in Ignite who seems want to win. The others just seem to be along for the ride.
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Old 23-04-2009, 17:06
MetalMonkey
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What's that spiel it says at the start of each show? "Britain’s brightest business prospects" or something?

So he’s one of Britain’s brightest?! And he comes up with pants man? Seriously…

Deluded wannabe more like.
Not that he then goes and sings the sound track. UGH He should have applied for BGT on Saturdays.
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Old 23-04-2009, 17:11
Tern
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Nicely put.

Team Ignite are pretty much useless. I dread to think what kind of nonsense they're going to get up to next week. Philip is the only one in Ignite who seems want to win. The others just seem to be along for the ride.
I wish people would get away from the idea that the only way to get on in business is to be a loud mouthed bully who make it clear that s/he is prepared to claw their way to the top.

Look at the top management in many companies and you will find many people who, at first sight, appear to be almost non-entities. They are polite, courteous and mindful of other people's ideas and feelings.

Look closer and you'll find that they are imaginative and diligent and their personality means they can get the best from people.

That sort of person is never going to win TA because the viewers, apart from anything else, don't have time to appreciate their strengths.
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Old 23-04-2009, 18:08
gilliedew
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Sir Alan has already employed a liar

Nothing is there to stop him hiring a bully

He lost all respect from me last series, I now wouldnt be suprised by any of his choices in new Apprentices after that debacle.
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Old 23-04-2009, 19:01
cousinfon
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Philip's idea for Pantsman, and his refusal to accept that it was a shit idea, was very similar to Ben's confidence in his black box gym equipment - which was also rubbish. Kim thought that the cereal packaging was rubbish, but didn't say that Pantsman himself was a crap character. And Philip can't take the blame for the bright green packaging or the terrible cereal box itself and its lack of design.

James thought that the gym equipment looked rubbish right from the start.

James brought Ben back after that debacle, and Kim brought Philip back after his stupid idea. So, the two episodes ran very close parallels - but, Kim is a marketing consultant and therefore should have recognised from the outset that the product and the character were rubbish whereas James isn't in marketing, so couldn't be held totally responsible for not recognising that Ben's product was also shit.

Yes, Pantsman was crap. Yes, the Bingo Wings Buster (or whatever it was ultimately called) was crap. But both Ben and Philip came up with something. Nobody else on either of their teams came up with anything - which is why neither Ben nor Philip got fired for having a crap idea. A crap idea is better than no idea at all.

However, if either of them forces their idea to the front again, and there are actually other ideas coming from other team members which are just shot down by either Ben or Philip because they shout louder than anybody else, I think it may be their necks on the block next time.

Lorraine did have an alternative idea to Philip (the five different fruit characters) but as SAS said to her, that was outside the remit anyway, and nobody else came up with any other ideas except Philip. A marketing consultant should have been able to come up with some ideas, even if the remaining forces in her team (Noobrain, Howard the Duck and Moaner) have the creative output of a wet tea-towel.

If they had followed that up though, they may have come up with making one of them a main humanised/animalised character and the others just bouncing jelly bean things.
I'd have thought that would have appealed to kids more.

I thought the main objection to that was the amount it would cost to make.
Would it have been expensive?
Stanley Baxter did something like it years ago.
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Old 23-04-2009, 19:03
cousinfon
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Not that he then goes and sings the sound track. UGH He should have applied for BGT on Saturdays.
That was painful! Terrible 'song', terrible voice.
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Old 23-04-2009, 20:12
Mizzused
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I don't like Phillock at all, I hope he is gone next week.
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Old 25-04-2009, 15:37
brangdon
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If anybody else had had any ideas at all, and Kimberley had been made aware of these ideas, she would have used that as a weapon against Philip in the boardroom when there were only the three of them sat in there. But she said nothing when he claimed that he was the only one who came up with any character ideas at all.
Well said. And it's worth remembering that the idea they went with was Philip's third. The first was "cereal killer", which Kimberly slapped down immediately.

The second was "So natural you'll feel like your naked, but in your pants." Let's talk about this. First, I think it may be the worst idea in this series so far. It's even worse than Ben's exercise machine that you have to have sex with. He wanted to show an eight-year-old boy in his underwear!

Second, it's actually a different idea to the one they eventually went with. The final idea involved "Pantsman", a superhero. This idea is emphasising the natural ingredients in the products, and trying to do so in a fun way. Both are pants-related, but they are different ideas. The superhero wore clothes as well as pants. This idea is about being naked except for pants.

Thirdly, it gets rejected. It's not the case that Philip is able to steam-roller his ideas onto the others. He gets knocked back several times.

Fourth, it contains the germ of the final idea. So Philip responds to the knock-back by taking on board the criticism, going away, rethinking it, fixing some of the flaws, and coming back with something better. Still not great, but when he does the dance and the song it does get the others to laugh. To me he has the energy and drive and creativity to overcome the early rejections and improve his ideas. The same happened on the fitness task, where his final idea was much better than the earlier versions.

By contrast, Lorraine's first idea is multiple characters, and she sticks with that all the way through. Philip doesn't kill it: she first raises it in the morning session, and she's still pitching it in the 2pm session. But she doesn't take on board the criticism, she doesn't fix the problems with it. The first problem is that doing four characters instead of one actually makes the task four times harder. The second is it contradicts the client's explicit request for a single character. She never gets it. Even after the team decide on Phil's idea, she continues whinging, even in public. She's still pitching the multiple characters idea in the boardroom at the end.

And she too was the same in the fitness task, when she was still pushing the under-desk ankle exerciser after Phil had had his brilliant, winning, body-rocker idea, and they had less than an hour to sort out the details before production. Luckily Debra cut her off that time. It's a shame Kimberly didn't cut her off in this task.
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Old 25-04-2009, 16:11
Tern
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But let's not lose sight of the fact that Philip's idea was utterly abysmal. Pants, in fact.

How five people failed to come up with something even microscopically better is a matter of pure disbelief.

Anyone who can couple the idea of a garment that is fundamentally designed to keep human waste products off the rest of their clothing with a food product is two sandwiches short of a picnic.
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