They were already too late when Philip finally pushed his idea. I don't think it was philip's fault that they didn't come up with any thing useful for 4-5 hours. He was against Laorraine's idea which doesn't even meet the brief as SAS pointed out in the boardroom. It is not enough to go against a bad idea. She should have offered a good alternative within the given time constraints.

You can do something with Philip's ideas. He sometimes gives winning ideas as he demonstrated in the fitness task. Nothing useful can come out of Lorraine. As I pointed out she could have lost them the fittness task had Debra listened to her.

To me Lorraine is just a moaner.

That doesn't alter the fact that if he hadn't come up with the idea they would have had to come up with something else no matter how late they were.

And if Philip hadn't been so intent on shouting Lorraine down there is no reason why her idea could not have been adopted. e.g. Name the ingredients and make a superhero character as their leader. (I kept expecting someone to suggest this but everytime the basic idea came up it was dismissed out of hand.)

Accoding to Kimberly, they adopted a good idea earlier in the day but they were told by the production team that they can't use it. They had to come up with another one in 5 min!!! I don't agree that Lorraine was shouted down by Philip. We saw Lorraine mention the same idea at least 3 times. Lorraine's idea was undeveloped, needed a lot of graphics and didn't meet the brief. She kept going on about the same idea even after they lost the task!!! I think going with Philip's idea was the only choice at the time.

I don't like Philip but I prefer him to Lorraine and I do believe that he is a stronger candidate. Moreover, I don't believe he was the reason for the failure of the task. SAS was right to fire Kimberly and Lorraine would have been my second choice to be on the firing line.

Yes, she mentioned the same idea and quite rightly because it would have worked if she'd been allowed to get a couple of sentences out and anyone had given it a moment's thought and simply added a superhero lead character.

As usual, Sugar had made his mind up before he even heard the candidates so he did exactly the same thing himself. Asked her a question and then brushed her aside before she'd even had a chance to answer.

If the team had deveoped the named ingredients idea and adapted it to the brief it would have been a million times better than Philip's idea that would never have won in a million vears.

Tbh I think Lorraine has a pattern of going against ideas and wasting valuable project time. I think SAS knew about Lorraine's idea from Nick and that is why he was quick to dismiss it. I don't think adding a superhero lead character would not have solved the problem. From what I understood the idea was very expensive in terms of time since a lot of time would have been needed to develop the graphics for the characters as Philip rightly pointed out.

Well, I'm glad you are being honest about it.


Exactly! Everyone made the same mistake. Dismiss an idea that could have been adapted to work and run with one that had about as much chance of success as 'soiled nappy man'.


I think that is exactly right.


Philip's objection was nonsensical and it's a pity everyone seems to be running with it.

All it needs is five diferently shaped differently coloured blobs with eyes and stick legs. Even I could do it in 5 mins with a packet of wax crayons! It's the idea they are pitching, not a finished product.

They had plenty of opportunity to come up with other ideas. Philip himself had 2 other ideas that didn't get used. During the afternoon session, we see Lorraine and Philip pitching semi-formally. It's clear Philip has had time to develop his idea and work on the lyrics to a song. When he was doing that he must have been quiet and other people could have spoken. They had hours.


He didn't stifle creativity. By the time he's doing his final pitching, it's already too late. There wasn't time to put new ideas on the table. The other team had picked their theme long before lunch.


Adding a superhero character would have meant 5 characters rather than 4, thus going even further outside of the client brief. It would have meant more work. And it left the core problem unsolved: now they have to invent a superhero character. Which is pretty much what they started with: having to invent a character. All you've added is the word "superhero", and it's you who added it, not Lorraine.

Fair point. Although he was the man on the spot and interiors are what the client wanted cleaning.


The £60 figure came from the other half of the team. Philip had been against it from the start, but pitched it because he was instructed to. He didn't lose 75% of the profit because it was never real profit. Nor did he promise the client a toga party, set dressing etc That's stuff Rocky came up with on his own, and the first Philip knew about it was when he returned home that evening. As Philip then pointed out, they were having the togas because Rocky had paid for them before finding out what they actually needed.

He nailed Rocky there. That's part of why I like him. Whether or not he is in a position to contribute to the win, he makes sensible comments.


This is a good example of how he polarises opinion. He got frustrated with Nooral's inability to make timely choices. We saw that earlier when Nooral couldn't decide how much honey Philip needed to collect. Philip needed a product number for the labels else the product couldn't be sold, and Nooral didn't have one. Philip got annoyed. OK, he didn't conduct himself perfectly, but the point is, he was right. And the girl's pussy-footing around wasn't helping.


No, he didn't. Two of his ideas got rejected. The third was accepted because it was the only idea on the table. He wasn't in a position to force anything, and both Lorraine and Kimberly were quite capable of slapping him down, as we see them do several times.


Her idea deserved to be shot down because it was worse than his, and outside the client brief. In any case, it was at worst, six of one and half a dozen of the other. She is just as negative about his ideas. She argues as much as he. Indeed, she never stops arguing, even in front of the outsider they are briefing.


Or maybe he genuinely thought she had done a reasonable job. After all, she did eventually accept his idea, and she did her best to manage the brainstorming session, and produced a great advert. Lorraine was the time-waster, not Kimberly.


Confidence is a virtue in the boardroom. And again, everything he said was right. Lorraine was a big part of why they lost. Kimberly should have brought Nooral or Mona into the boardroom. If Kimberly had brought Nooral instead of Lorraine, she'd have kept Philip's respect and Nooral would almost certainly have been fired.

He said in the Boardroom that Lorraine didn't object to his idea until two hours before the task was over and that before that she'd only given him positive feedback. That was a BLATANT lie to try to persuade Siralan on the notion he already had formed that she was an arse-coverer who was only objecting at the last minute to make herself look good.


The girls were in no way pussy-footing around. Kimberly asked clearly for the batch code, because they needed it. Just because Phillip likes to present himself as being the sole straight-shooter in the bunch doesn't make it true. He's a terrible disembler and likes to spin whatever version of the truth he comes out best him. It, along with his obvious natural creativity and charm, makes him a good candidate for getting far in the show, but he needs to hope that Siralan never twigs him, as he never did with Simon. If he praises one more atrocious Project Manager to the hilt to make himself appear loyal, he's going to be on thin ice.

Someone has said it was reported that they came up with one idea and it was vetoed by the production company thus giving them very little time to come up with a new idea.


They should have gone with Lorraine's and modifyied it. Anything would be better than pants.


Not at all. Just because they want to focus on one character does not mean there cannot be supporting characters. Even the pants pants idea had two parents and two children supporting the main character.


LOL, I didn't realise I'd added 'superhero' but it's completely irrelevant. If they don't need a hero they have even more flexibility and could add, for example, 'Mr Sleepyhead' who is woken up by all the fruity ingredients. The possibilities are endless.

If I can come up with ideas as I type I can't see why they couldn't.

I very strongly got the impession that Philip made it very clear he was going to throw a strop if they didn't go with his absurd idea.

I often wonder about Nick and Margaret's involvement in situations like these.

Of course you can't always know if they saw the disputed activity but it always surprises (and often dismays) me that Sugar never seems to want to get to the bottom of these incidents where one party is obviously deliberately lying. (sometimes, of course, you can be charitable and assume it's just different interpretations.)

Instead he just seems to accept the version that supports any feeling he already has.

In his position if I heard two conflicting versions of something so fundamental as that I would want to find out the truth.

And whoever was lying would become the prime candidate for a sacking.

Of course, if the candidates had seen him do that in previous episodes they would know it was a dangerous strategy and probably wouldn't even try it.

I think the correct version of events is probably the one Kimberly presented - Lorraine sent out mixed messages all day.

What we see of her objection to the idea isn't actually very strong (she says the idea is getting silly and that parents might be put off by the pants thing and that she's "ok with it but not overly ok with it" all of which are a bit wishy washy) and she admits to Phillip's quote of her saying the idea was hilarious.

Basically I think Lorraine either seized on the opportunity of the Boardroom to inflate how much she objected, or she genuinely did think she objected more than she did. Either way, Phillip can seize of the idea that she didn't object at all and that all the arguments were about personal issues (again it's true that a few of them were personal - about Phillip's attitude or Lorraine telling him to shut up) to make her look like an arse-coverer. And just about get it under the truth bar because he's a smooth operator.

i prefer lorraine aka olive from on the buses (people of a certain age will know what i mean).

I cannot warm to Lorraine at all, so as much I disliked Philip in the last task, I still prefer him, and think he is the stronger candidate of the two. He does really need to calm his temper though if he wants to get much further.

That sounds interesting (and plausible). Do we have any references for it, or is it pure speculation. If true, it adds weight to the claim that Philip didn't stifle creativity in others. (Unless this, too, was Philip's idea.)


The parents and children weren't "characters" of the advertising campaign in the sense meant here, any more than the child with the pirate-parrot was. They wouldn't appear in other adverts for the same product, for example. They were incidental.


They didn't need more flexibility. They needed something concrete they could do. What Lorraine said did nothing to progress them forward.


If they had gone with Lorraine's idea, and so against the client brief, and lost, he'd have been quite right to disassociate himself from that mistake in the boardroom. Beyond that, it's you're own projection.

Lorraine by miles.

It was in a thread here, stated as a fact but without any backup citation or link.

It would seem likely as it's unbelievable that 5 people couldn't come up with anything better than pants in all that time.


Yes it did. It gave them a base to work from.

The single character needed some reference poit (e.g. pants ). Her suggestion simply provided a reference point to come up with a character.


Naming the ingredients would not be against the client brief provided they came up with a main character that was the focus of the campaign.

If Philip hadn't been so bombastic they maight well have come up with something a lot better.

They could hardly have come up with anything a lot worse.

For entertainment, Philip. Otherwise I don't really care!

They could have. Lorraine's idea was a lot worse, for example.

But now we're just repeating ourselves. I don't see much scope for agreement here, or even further progress towards greater understanding, so I'm going to try to restrain myself from commenting again on the matter (unless someone makes a more novel point).

Lorraine's idea was to have a character for each ingredient, which was against the client brief.

That being said, her idea was much more relevant to the actual cereal than Philip's rubbish pants idea, but Lorraine's couldn't be taken further as it was against the brief and could be costly to have graphics made for all 5 characters for the advert and for the box.

If you use some imagination you can take it further by simply reducing the characters to names and making up a focus character.

Or maybe amalgamating them to make one character made of fruit. Or a character that likes the fruit but doesn't have time to get the ingredients then the discovers the cereal.

There are a million ideas that you could use to take Lorraine's starting point and match it to the client brief.

There's not much that you can do with an idea based on a garment that is associated with lavatory humour.

Lorraine at a push.

Philip is too cocky and over-bearing.

An interview with Kimberly

Neither of them. I'd been giving the benefit of the doubt, thinking that he might be a rough diamond, but I don't think he is. He's just a twonk. Lorraine is very negative all the time (although I think it's unfair to say that she was a large part of the reason that they lost the task).

Out of the two, I'd be surprised if Lorraine lasted longer than Philip, but I don't think either of them should win.