Yes AA Rac etc are quite a worry, we had to leave ours in the campervan when it was recovered they were very high off the ground and we couldn't see them to know what was happening, quite a worrying trip. And before anyone says - yes we were unhappy but could not see a choice in the matter as leaving them at the roadside was also not a good idea (motorway) so we just got home as quick as we could.

Sue it is just me, I have a neurological disorder and sometimes dont engage my brain properly. I was agreeing with you as you were being sensible I mean you have to stop for the loo and leaving the dogs for a few minutes wont do them any harm.

It is the idiots who leave the dogs in the cars whilst they go to tescos for over an hour in the summer that make me mad so mad that one day I broke the window of a car and rescued a dog who was dying.

I apologies I meant no offence.

I think one of the worst things I saw was a family piling out of a car at Alton Towers...having let the dog out for a quick wee in the car park and then shutting him in the car for the day...it was the middle of summer and boiling hot

Of course we reported it as did several other people who were worried

We had put our dog into kennels for the day, so we could take my daughter...not ideal, but at least he was cool and safe ..and given several long walks throughout the day

Hi purrfect_catlov - sorry for jumping down your throat - I can see we are on the same wavelength


now that IS senseless and cruel

I think we would all agree that is wrong the problem is when legislating against idiots all the people who do take care get caught up in it too.

My friend had a similar experience she was going to a GT with some other doggie friends and had three in the car with her when she broke down. Firstly she had no option but to leave them in the car on the hard-shoulder - taking three young Labs onto the banks of the motorway if you are on your own has the potential to cause accidents of catastrophic proportions

Desite her being considered a 'priority' - from calling in to getting home was around 10 hours - and then they dumped her at a local garage a few miles from home complete with dogs - despite having PASSED her house en-route to the garage

we sometimes leave our dogs in the car (not during hot weather) but it is always after we have taken them for a long walk in the woods or on the beach etc and we're stopping off on the way home to get a drink grab a sandwich etc - we always leave them water and 9 times out of time they'll be fast asleep anyway - we've tried taking them some places with us and out staffie is just too friendly and wants to lick everyone - she's calmer if she stays in the car for a short while

What I've always found interesting how causing cruelty to animals is illegal but killing them because they taste nice is just fine.

How many dog lovers can love so much for an animal and then be fine putting some other animal down their mouth? Does no-one see the double standard there?

Must say having been a veggie for over 30 years now I can see the logic in what you say but I still feed my dogs meat and fish

I get when you mean as well..I'm another veggie, I can't imagine eating meat myself and yet I still give it to my pets.

Its a funny old world we live in

By that logic keen rose growers and florists shouldn't eat vegetables

Not quite the same unless they are eating roses and flowers

Yes it is because the dog lovers posting here are unlikely to be eating dogs, more likely to be eating sheep, cattle and pigs, if we stick to mammals commonly eaten in UK so the logic parallel stands:
Love dogs, eat sheep, cattle, pigs V love roses and other flowers, eat vegatables

Logic ? No logic to this argument at all, it isn't logical to use so many resources to produce meat for human consumption when we could easily feed the entire world on a good vegetarian diet using far less resources.
No logic to eating flesh when it has been proven to cause more problems than it cures.
No logic at all.

Yes, but many people don't consider killing to be an example of cruelty! These same people also tend to use the word "humane" rather a lot, in an attempt to convince those who object (and maybe themselves) that killing the animals is somehow showing them mercy, kindness and compassion!!! You couldn't make it up! Unfortunately, even so-called animal "welfare" () organisations such as the RSPCA don't object to killing "food" animals, in fact they make money from it... they even had recipes using animal body parts on their website last time I looked! (Couldn't find one for labrador pup pie or kitten stew though, strangely... )



Absolutely spot on

The problem is how many cows do you see being left in a car cooking? Now that would be cruelty.

You have to look at the difference:

Cruelty:

Cruelty (also called truculence) can be described as indifference to suffering, and even positive pleasure in inflicting it. Sadism can also be related to this form of action or concept.

Cruel ways of inflicting suffering may involve violence, but violence is not necessary for an act to be cruel. For example, if another person is drowning and begging for help, and another person is able to help, but merely watches with disinterest or perhaps mischievous amusement, that person is being cruel — rather than violent.

Cruelty usually carries connotations of supremacy over a submissive or weaker force.

Slaughtering for food. Take dogs. If they were wild they would KILL their prey and eat it tearing it limb from limb to survive.

Although I feel sad for animals being used for food, I dont necessarily equate it with cruelty in the worse sense of the word.

I always try to eat free range eggs and chickens.

The trouble is if we all stopped eating animals then they would have to be slaughtered anyway, no longer exist as it wouldnt be cost effective to keep them.

I admire vegetarians and try to limit my meat consumption, but i dont feel guilty about feeding myself I do feel sad for the animal but then we all die in the end.

I don't like animals being killed for food but for me the greater cruelty is how they are kept prior to death, and the people involved in that do by and large watch with disinterest therefore production of meat is cruel IMO and by your definition.

I agree with a lot of what has been said on the subject of cruelty & inhumane treatment of animals. Whilst I have full respect for people that do not eat meat on moral or ethical grounds, the same should apply to dairy products if you feel that way. Dairy cattle are bred & kept in awful conditions for the whole of their productive lives. At least with beef cattle they have some semblance of a normal life in usually tolerable conditions before they are slaughtered.

It's the same with egg production, although I'm sure vegetarians would not having anything to do eggs from battery hens, including eating ready-prepared vegetarian food using eggs from battery hens.

My reference to logic in this specific instance, related to comparing like with like.
Whether someone chooses to be a vegetarian or not, and their reasons for making that choice, and how far they choose to take that decision (e.g vegetarian with dairy or vegan) is a separate issue.

My best friend is a vegan and i used to get really annoyed with her, as she would wear leather shoes and had quite a few leather handbags.

Her argument was that the leather was a bi-product so there fore would be wasted so she could wear it without feeling bad. I couldn't quite see that argument somehow.

Mind you she cooked some great food I liked.

I could live without meat, but not fish.

I suppose if an animal is already dead, then by the same logic, you could argue that its flesh is a by-product too.

I also think that there are some great vegan recipes as several of my friends are vegan. I'm used to cooking vegetarian & vegan food for my friends & I mostly enjoy it too. I love veggies, pasta, rice etc but I struggle with the vegetarian substitutes for meat, like veggie sausages, bacon, burgers etc. Mind you I don't eat the meat varieties of these either!

I don't eat meat and I would never eat battery eggs, I buy my eggs from a person I know and I always check to ensure ready meals contain only free range eggs

I also buy organic milk, I know that dairy cows don't have the nicest of lives..so its the best option available..I also use soya and rice milk to help cut down the amount of milk I buy

I don't own any leather shoes or bags

Its an extremely personal choice though, I think we all have to act according to our own conscience and do what feels comfortable to each of us individually

My big issue is with the medication I take..I have a huge dilemma in that ethically I can't condone animal experimentation, but without it, I probably wouldn't be alive..its something I struggle to come to terms with every day

I only use cruelty free cosmetics and household cleaners ..but there are no cruelty free versions of the medication I need

I think this is a very balanced post. I understand completely where you are coming from with regards to medication as well. Thanks a good post.

Actually Freedom Food - the welfare scheme run by the RSPCA is a non-profit scheme for the charity. The farmers benefit from better prices in return for keeping their animals to welfare standards much higher than the legal requirements. The RSPCA makes no profit out of it at all.

Anyway, where do you stop. Are pet owners hypocritical because they use things tested on animals? If that were the case, that rules out the eating of Quorn, etc, because it's been tested on animals! Same goes for washing powder, toothpaste, sun cream, weapons, airbags, fireworks, etc, well much of what we rely on to make life easy and safe!

so she left the car running then ? cause air conditioning only works when engine is running.....