........as Siralan prefers Bens ( allegedly )

Yup, there's a way of disagreeing with someone in a superior position to you, which Nick effectively is in The Apprentice, and Debra messed up big time. I find starting sentences with 'With the greatest respect....' helps

I think its safe to say Nick knows more about business then the posters on this thread, if he says the important thing is who closes the deal, then its all about who closes the deal.

With Ben in the boardroom the only chance anyone else gets to speak is by interruption. Once started he doesn't draw breath and I've got to the point where I want to throw something at the tv every time he utters those words "Let me finish." But he never does.

I wonder if he's as ineffective at finishing in the bedroom as he is in the boardroom.

But Sugar had already said this task was all about valuing the objects correctly, and not about selling.

And Nick is clearly wrong even if the task was about selling. Anyone can close a deal at a price way below fair value. The skill is closing a deal at above fair value.

You can talk about the price of something as long as you like but until someone decides to hand over money its not a deal. That was Nick's point, which I think is fair enough.

[quote=coocoocachew;32195711]You can talk about the price of something as long as you like but until someone decides to hand over money its not a deal. That was Nick's point, which I think is fair enough.[/QUOTE

This is an interesting point. IMO closing the deal is intended outcome of any business negotiation however this was also a team task so the input of all individuals is just as important as getting the final deal. Their input should help to close the deal. I think it was fair for Debra to stand her ground and respond to Nick's criticism but her way and manner was awful, passionate yes, but in business you just do not behave like that. It certainly won't win you any clients.
I really think this kind of behaviour in business, i.e aggressive, dog eat dog mentality, is so old hat. It's like watching a pantomime.

It may well be a fair point but it was not applicable in this particular instance.

If you have a group of people doing a negotiation any one of them can suddenly jump in and 'close' the deal by accepting a silly price.

Ben did close the deal but that - the way he did it - was his fault, not his triumph.

Nick has had it in for Noorul from day one - although he was quite nice about him on YF.

I totally agree with you susie. You are spot on with the 'being honest' culture we now have spawned from Big Brother. Just an excuse to be rude and self-indulgent.

While I hate to make assumptions, I can only guess that those on the thread who think Debra was correct to sneer at Nick in the manner she did, are not employed in the business world, if they think that she was conducting herself in a business-like manner in an interview-type situation. If they employed the same tactics themselves, I doubt they would go far in business.

Absolutely. One of my favourite phrases! Followed by 'I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you because of (whatever reason)' - enough to make your point without being rude. And know when to quit before you get behind!

You don't need to be in the business world to know that you do not argue with the people interviewing you for a job!

Those of you saying Nick has no business giving his views - well why? He's there for that exact reason, as a trusted aide of Sir Alans. Plus how do we know Nick and Margarent haven't always made comments in the boardroom, and it's just they've previously been edited out?

Nick's fully entitled to express his view of the tasks - he's with the team all day watching what they do, so although the edit may not entirely support his view who are we to say he's wrong?

I'm sure that what we're hearing this series from Nick and Margaret is no different to what Sir Alan has heard himself from them since Series 1 - maybe it will help give us a little more insight into some of Sir Alan's more baffling firings.

Debra was OTT, you have to reign yourself in when in a business situation, you can't just go off on one and expect to retain any respect for yourself as a potential employee from those thinking of hiring you.

Its especially applicable in this case because as you say they all contribute to the negotiations so its the individual who gets the person to part with money is the one who finishes the deal. Yes Ben is at fault if he accepts a price too low but at least he has made an effort.

Sorry disagree. Starting a sentence in that way comes across as patronising.

OTOH starting it "With due respect..." is a thinly veiled insult, suggesting no respect.

What is more important is the tone and a gentle "I'm sorry Nick, but I have to disagree wih you there".

This is how I would have expressed it too.

With the greatest respect or with all due respect is usually followed by a complete lack of respect in my experience.

By your logic if the co-pilot of an aircraft pulled back on the control column too soon on landing and crashed the plane he's still get credit because 'at least he has made an effort'.

Do you not understand?

Ben screwed up the sale by wading in and accepting too low a price before there was any need to do so. His incompetance was barely believable. It was only because Noorul was marked to go that he got away with it.

Of course, I agree. I'm not in the business world any more myself and I aim to treat everyone I meet through my job and personal life with respect and manners. The only reason I narrowed it down to this is because Debra is trying to get on in the business world. Also, there may be some jobs where speaking to your superiors like they are idiots is accepted - not that I can think of any!

I don't understand how your analogy has anything to do with sales. My point is that because you are talking about a sale it does not mean a sale has been made. You have to close.
This was what Nick was saying to Debra and what she disagreed with and that was why Noorul was at fault also.

this was so annoying last night,debrah had every right to have a go at nick,what rule is this that you cant question nick?????????

and she wasnt shouting

Nick was far too keen to give all credit to Ben for everything based on rather flawed and blinkered reasoning.

I think Debra was incredibly restrained. I believe I would have rolled my eyes profusely, given Nick and wedgie and resigned on the spot.

Because it shows that when you jump in half-cocked disaster follows.


Yes, but not at any price.

Ben jumped in and closed the sale when there was obviously still a chance of getting a better price. The instant he did that no fault could be laid at Noorul's door.


She was merely trying to point out that had she not done the research he probably would have been trying to sell it to the wrong person at the wrong price.

That was bizarre, wasn't it.

Someone on another thread mentioned (in jest, I'm sure) Nick havin a crush on Ben. Watching last night's boardroom you could almost believe it.

Almost believe it ? It's painful to watch.

I've no idea (nor do I really want to know) what Nick's sexual leanings are, but Nick does seem to have a bit of "a thing" for Ben.

He seemed determined to make sure that Ben didn't get fired last night.

As for Debra, I say good for her. Yes, she should have measured her tone a little, but I Nick seems to think he is God's right-hand man and can never be challenged.

I hate all the fawning and crawling around "Sir Alan", Margaret and Nick.

I know it's the whole premise of the programme but I hate the way that Nick, Margaret and Alan act superior the whole time and treat the contestants as complete morons. After a while you realise, it's just rude.

Respect is a two way street and they need to start showing some to the contestants rather than treating every person younger than them as an imbecile. I'd really like to see a special where Nick and Margaret were team leaders. I wouldn't be surprised if they were as hopeless as some of the contestants. The tasks are designed for failure.

Whilst I wouldn't have expressed myself quite as Debra did, I would certainly have challenged Nick. If Nick thinks that closing the deal is all that's important, he's demonstrating the same logic as Ben and Phillip which is to sell as many items as possible no matter if they make profit. Anyone can close a deal by underselling an item by £100. What Debra did was actually more important in finding the right buyer for the product. Nick also always talks down to the contestants as second class citizens so I'm glad someone finally replied to him in the same manner.

Nick strikes me as someone who has a real issue with women. He was equally horrendous to Jennifer Maguire last year for no reason. In the fitness task, he was really harsh on Debra's management style for no reason and he's been difficult to Yasmina too. I'm not saying these women are perfect, but he always seems to have a problem with stronger women.

Well, to be honest, they really aren't that bright, are they? The task was to VALUE the goods and sell them at the right price - emphasis on the word "value". If they'd done it correctly and sold even two items at the right price, they'd probably at least have broken even. If they'd been any good at sales, they might even have made a small profit. On this occasion, Lorraine was the only one with half a clue about what the task was about and Durham Boy (whose misogeny gives every man north of the Watford Gap a bad name) shouted her down as usual, because he thought he knew better.

The candidates are chosen for their entertainment value this series. Virtually all of them, except perhaps for Kate, would be a total nightmare in any workplace.