I've had Chihuahuas all my life. One had to be pts last june and I have one left aged 13. I went to look at a Chi puppy, he was the only one left. He's 18 weeks and the breeder still has him because of a death in the family (this is true I saw the cards and flowers dead outside) She brought the puppy out to me and even in her arms his face had terror written all over it. I took him gently and hugged him and he just burried his face in my hair and I had to pull him away to get a good look at him as he just wanted to hide.

I placed him on the floor to see him walking and running around like puppies do but he just stood their with his tail between his legs frozen in fear. I know I can give him a good home and a lot of love but I'm worried about how a timid dog would turn out especially since I have Cookie to think about. I'm worried that he'll be fearful and snappy in the future.

Has anyone had any experience of this or seen puppies like this. What do you advise?

In situations like that my heart always rules my head so no help to you at all I'm afraid.

Yeah me too. He's been on my mind all night. The place was dirty and dingy and stank and he was very thin. I felt for the little guy but I've got to think of my older dog Cookie as well. I'm desperately looking for advice.

marieukxx ~ what a difficult decision. I think I'd struggle to leave this poor puppy where he is too! But I totally appreciate your apprehension in taking him on & you are right to give priority to your own dog.

Nobody can make this decision for you but I can give you the following thoughts from what I know.

Did you see the puppy's parents? If so, what was their behaviour like, especially the mum? If the mother seems ok, well looked after & friendly to people & other dogs, then the puppy will have a better chance of turning out normal & this could be a temporary blip in behaviour.

At 18 weeks, the puppy is at the stage where the previously dampened down fear response to anything new, is starting to kick in again so the abject fear you saw could be heightened response to new smells, people etc ~ I'm trying to be optomistic here!

Otherwise this puppy seems to have developed a huge fear response for some reason ~ possibly no socialisation, ill-treatment from the current owners, total neglect at the critical socialisation time? Or, if the mother is not around, a complete lack of any secure attachment figure if it was weaned & removed from the mother too early.

The chances of this puppy developing behaviour problems later in life are obviously higher if this has happened. But it is still so young & with lots of TLC, a kind & consistent owner & a lot of patience, the puppy could grow up to be perfectly happy & normal.

If I were you, I think I would try to find out more about the current owners, what has happened in the first 18 weeks of the puppy's life, where did they get it from if they didn't breed it etc. Then I would probably say "I'll have it!" & do my best to give it a happy home.

If it didn't work out with my other dog, then I'd probably try to have a "reserve home" just in case, rather that leave it where it is. Remember, if there is any evidence of cruelty, you can always ask the RSPCA or another charity to intervene.

Good luck with your decision ~ let us know what you decide to do.

The person bred the puppy. All the others have sold and he's the only one left. I saw both parents. The mum was scared looking to me as well but the owner said she was very laid back. She allowed me to stroke her and she seemed ok. She was ok with my dog too. The father let me stroke him and everything but I was warned not to let my dog near him.

The breeder would also only bring the dogs out one at a time. I could hear other dogs in the other room. She went and got the puppy then put him back and brought the mum out so I wasn't given the chance to see him interacting with the dogs he's used to. I asked and she said he runs around with the others fine but I don't totally trust her. When I stroked the mum and dad their hair was matted behind the ears and the dad had poo on his face. The whole place was very dark and dirty and it stank.

She even admitted to me the RSPCA had been round that day because another person who saw the puppy was concerned. I'm torn. I want to take him to give him a decent home but then I don't want to have a traumatised unhealty dog on my hands when I've got old cookie to look after too.

It all sounds very dodgy to me. No wonder someone else called the RSPCA. Did the breeder tell you what the outcome of the RSPCA visit was? The fact that the dogs are still there suggests there was no overt cruelty, perhaps just neglect & ignorance?

You could try reporting the conditions to the RSPCA too. If more than one person complains perhaps they would take it more seriously. Or try reporting the conditions to another welfare organisation?

I'd love to be able to say go for it & get this puppy out of these miserable conditions but perhaps that would only encourage this breeder to rear more unhappy puppies & put the older dogs through more cruelty.

I don't know if there's anything more I can add really ~ the decision is up to you. You are clearly aware of the potential pitfalls both for yourself & your other dog & the puppy so you must do what you think is for the best.

Sounds very, very dodgy

Personally, I'd steer clear and ring the RSPCA.

You might think you are rescuing the pup, but it sounds like a typical BYB. Every penny you give her is a penny to help her breed more.

She didn't show you the pup with its mum and I presume they aren't KC registered - how do you know she even bred this pup and isn't just a broker or bought it, found some problem and wants to offload it? If it is the one from preloved you were asking about, it is awfull cheap for a Chi.

Chi's get PRA don't they? Has she even bothered to have the parents CERF'd?

You could end up with a huge vet bill, an undersocialised dog that requires a lot of effort and won't get on with your other dog.

I'd stear clear. Get your name down with Chi rescue (presuming there is one), join Dog pages (www.dogpages.co.uk) and post in 'homes offered' and/or save some more money, contact the breed club and get a pup from a reputable breeder.

Scum BYB'er only thrive because people buy from them. Be part of the solution, not the problem and buy from a reputable breeder or go to a reputable rescue.

I would best avoid the poor little mite. They don't make good pets as they shake and urinate a lot.

Poor little soul..I can totally understand your dilema, it must have been really hard to live the poor little thing there, and so tempting to just take it and give it a nice life, but on the other hand, nobody wants to encourage these awful breeders and you have a repsonsibility to your own little dog

Whatever you decide to do about the pup, please go ahead and report these people to the RSPCA or another dog welfare group, so hopefully something can be done

Me too and I would take it if I were you especially if you know you have the patience and understanding for a timid dog and you may well soon make him happy and give him confidence!

I haven't read the rest of the replies so you may well have him by now! I'm a big softy and if I saw a shy, timid dog like that (if it was my favourite Basset Hound breed) I would have to have him because I'd only worry that the wrong person might have him and not take care of him!

I understand where you are coming from - I'm not totally heartless - but what about the next littler? And the next?

Supporting scum like this by buying their little money makers is why we have such a huge problem with BYB'er.

that's what my OH would & did do with our Scottie - he came from a lovely breeder but he was very shy when we first got him although you wouldn't know it now

I totally understand the theory but leaving him there I would worry he could be brought by someone who doesn't understand his needs so he would still be coming home with me.

I totally understand. I would still worry about the poor little mite, but I just wouldn't be able to hand over a penny to BYB'er scum.

Hopefully people reading threads like this will be able to avoid putting themselves in a heartbreaking situation like this by going to a reputable breeder or rescue.

According to her they are KC registered. The pup was from the mum I could tell as they looked the spitting image of eachother.

I know it's cheap for a Chi I am a Chi owner. I have one 13 years old and I had another who had to be pts aged 10. I didn't go there because of the price it was because my sis saw the picture and he looks very similar to the dog I had pts and I decided to go look.

marie, it is up to you. I have offered my opinion and the reasons why. KC or no KC, this is a BYB who is breeding Chi's for money not the betterment of the breed. I would urge you to walk away and go to a responsible breeder who health test and has a real love of Chi's like you do.

But I've also said I can understand anyone who, in a situation like this, would buy.

Rock and a hard place

Ahh this is a shocking story and i def think that you should call the rspca.

I have a chi who i had from 16 months old...when i got her she stunk of wee, matted fur and tail permanently with tail between legs and soo submissive.

2 months later she was like a different dog but still very submissive.

What about taking your dog to meet the chi to see how they get on?

that comment is aload of rubbish, they do make good pets and they don't all shake and urinate alot . They might be small dogs but ,not all of them are treated as lap dogs.

That's rubbish.

marieuk,

I feel for you. It's a horrible dilemma to be in. I wish you luck in whatever you decide.

I'd buy it, then report the breeder to the RSPCA.

i would run a mile! sounds very dodgy, you don't really know whats going on with the poor thing and you could be buying into a whole lot of trouble. Buying pups from less than reputable breeders only encourages the trade.