...was it really such a bad idea?

Fair enough, the market for prams is bigger but there was more people selling them, cheaper and therefore more competition.

The BP however, yeah only 2 percent of people there would have been looking for one but they looked like they were the only sellers there so they would have had the market to themselves.

I think James made a good choice. Oh and it gave him the opportunity to say, 'it's like lifting the lid and the baby jumps out!'.

I thought the birthing pool was a good idea, it sold quite well and they had a good discount on it. I think if they had put more effort into that as their main product, it would have been more successful.

I wasn't clear how you were supposed to empty it.
Now that's not likely to be a pleasant job, is it?

I agree ... I put this on another thread somewhere -

The target market actually consists of all the women/couples who have home births (as they will be thinking about the option of water births) plus a considerable amount of those who end up having hospitable births (as they will be thinking about the option of home births).

With a little bit of research, a decent selling technique and some James-like enthusiasm the birth pools could be sold to people who have never even previously thought about a home birth.

The true target market therefore is more than 700,000 - as it will also include many women who are still at the planning stage but won't be giving birth during the next 12 months.

I thought they actually did quite well with sales considering Ben and others kept insisting it was only 2% of the market, they made like over £700..

I thought the birthing pool was fab, and a great price. I would have bought one, if only to labour in, if not actually give birth. I always thought these things cost an absolute fortune, not under £100.

I thought it was good if you're into that, but the majority of people prefer the safeway and thats in a hospital

What's a hospitable birth? Is that when you invite all your mates round to watch?? (sorry, couldn't resist!! LOL)


Supermarkets in hospitals, what a good idea!! (Sorry again!!)

I thought it was a great idea and under praised by SA. The thing with birthing pools is that they are not as easily avaliable in high street baby shops as something like a pram, they are more specialist. Most people looking for a birthing pool will research and buy on the internet, however on the net you can't see, touch, examine or ask questions about the product. It's likely therefore that a number of people would go diliberatly to a show like this where they could examine a pool and if they liked it would probably buy it as it's not something you can just nip out and get the next day. Plus at a show you tend to feel like you are buying from experts. So I think it was a great choice, and if they'd concerntrated on it more they could have won.

Behave yourself!

hmmmm, dave i am assuming you are a man.

the safe way in a hospital? not necessarily

women gave birth at home with the help of female partners and friends for hundreds of years, its not necessarily unsafe all the time

hospital can often mean unnecessary Cesarean, forceps and tears just to make sure you are out on time oh and ward rounds of about 10 people dropping on on you to watch you writhing around in pain. ofcourse some people have the perfect experience but its often because they have the perfect labour, and would probably have done just fine at home without all the internal exams.

whether a woman chooses home or hospital her choice should be respected.

I was going to point out to davedub that statistically speaking, homebirth is safer. Maternal and neonatal deaths occur significantly more in hospital births. I had my baby son in hospital but the birth was very hands-off and homelike. He was out after 12 minutes of pushing, all 9lb 8.5ozs of him! Am up the stick again and I would have loved to give birth at home this time round but can't - twins.

Re: the product, I don't think it was a bad choice either. You wouldn't have to give birth in the pool, many women find it helps to labour in the water before they transfer to hospital. Would've been a complete waste of money for me - there was under 2 hours between the first contraction and my son being born so no time for fannying about in water, but such a quick labour is very unusual. Had I been at the baby show during the pregnancy I could very easily have been railroaded into forking out 80 quid for that pool, particularly by an enthusiastic salesperson. Bit of an encouragement and gynaecological mumbo jumbo and Bob's your uncle.

You're very right Lolita, women have been giving birth out of hospitals longer than they have in 'em.

But crikey, during the birth of your little 'un you wouldn't even have had enough time to pump it up never mind fill it with water!

Let's face it, the birthing pool wasn't the problem. If, as a previous poster said, they had put their sales efforts into it as their main product then it would probably have done well.

The big problem was the rocking horses and they were putting so much effort into trying to sell just one of them that they didn't make as much of an effort as they should have about the birthing pool.

Here's hoping the ARM didn't hear you say that...

Too late...

Sorryyy. You always swear you won't do the red-rag-to-bull stuff and guff on about birth-related shite in lecturey middle-aged hippy mode. And then you do. And you freggin' hate yourself for it.

The birthing Pool made zero sense if they had given it any thought.

The number of birth each year in the UK is about 700,000 of which only 2% are home births of that 2% ie 14,000 only 1% are home water births. ie a 140.

How many of those 140 are likely to turn up at the show?

The other problem is you are only going to sell the Birthing pool to pregnant woman at the show. It's hardly an implse buy "Hey I will buy one of this for the next time I get pregnant"

The market was going to be so small it was totaaly daft.

A pram you could market to almost anyone attending the show

As mentioned above - an increasing (and already significant) number of women use them to labour in, before giving birth on "dry land" so to speak, be it at home or, as in most cases, in hospital. It's not a case of 140 people with their minds made up happening (or not) to show up to the show. It hinges entirely on the marketing and they certainly managed to shift them on the day.

James' angle re: not choosing the prams was logical. Nowdays, the vast majority do a substantial amount of research before they buy a pram/pushchair and traipse around shop after shop boring their arses off comparing brands and models. Most heavily pregnant women will have one anyway and those that don't are highly unlikely to fork out well over a hundred quid for some gimmicky pram being flogged by a bunch of suits. Not only that, but as James pointed out - the brand in question is essentially untested and very obscure. On that basis it's reasonable to suggest that not many people would choose to purchase it. The birthing pool wasn't an unfeasible impulse buy - as I say, it wouldn't be difficult to railroad folks into buying it with the comfort / anatomical waffle. Whereas a pram, not many people would just choose to buy that on a whim and I reckon it was pure luck they managed to sell the units that they did. If the birthing pool turns out to be lacking in some shape or form, it's not the end of the world. You only use it for a few hours and that's that. If the pushchair turns out to be shit, you have to go through the rigmarole of researching a replacement and subsequently shelling out for it.

Edit to add that bel is right re: travel systems, that hadn't even occurred to me! There's no point in flogging pushchairs only suitable from 9 months or so and over to pregnant women, when they can buy a travel system suitable from birth for only a fraction more. So that's a significant chunk of the target demographic cut out.

But the problem with the pram was that it was quite a limited product too. Firstly prams / pushchairs etc require a lot of research and the market is dominated by a few major brands. Most people coming to the show would have seen the model they liked in the shops and would be hoping to get it more cheaply at the show. This brand was lesser known and wouldn't have been so popular, it was also more expensive than some other similar models.

It also seemed to be only a pushchair rather than a travel system. Most pregnant customers would have been looking for a travel system encompassing car seat, pram section etc ... this fold up pushchair seemed to be for a more niche market who travelled on the bus / trains more or who might want it for holidays. At the end of the day there are cheaper buggys which fold up just as easily and are probably lighter, just don't fold up in the same shape.

I think they did well to get the sales they did but this wasn't going to be a product that appealed to as many people as they thought. Plus as they found out they were up against big leading well known independents with huge ranges of well known brand prams and pushchairs for better prices.

I still think that the birthing pool as a more unique and more difficult to get hold of product would have more appeal at a baby show and if marketed in the right way could have done well.

I don't actually think either of the above are 'impulse buys'. If you come to the show looking for a pram then you'd prob have a good idea of the brand you want and the functions you want and only a very small percentage of people are going to be swayed towards the fold up chair. But if you are pregnant and considering a home birth, you def might go to a baby show with a view to looking at a birthing pool and if you find the right one you'd be more lightly to buy it.

EDIT ... oops Lolita you've just echoed my thoughts!!! Great minds!

EDIT again ... just another quick thought ... yes the pram market is bigger but the customers at the show would have been spoilt for choice and only a few would have a real need for that kind of buggy ... the birth pool market is smaller but much more concerntrated. Those people would know their stuff, they'd be looking for this kind of pool and if they found it, much more likely to buy on the day ... it's a smaller market but acutally I think a safer market to appeal too ... and the birth pool was a much more high quality product, endorsed by midwives, tested and recommended etc whereas the buggy looked to me like a gimmick that will be gone by next year ....

The birthing pool is a very speciallsed niche market and its a very small market. It runs to a few thousand a year at most.

Whilst the pram market is competative it is a huge market. The buugy type of pram is now the biggest seller. The pram the other team selected had a fairly unique feater of being able to fold & unfold it with a single hand. That gives it a big competative market.

If you take just that show. The nummber of people that migh have in a birthing pool would be in single figures

The number of people that would possibly be inteested in buy a pram could be virtually everyone that attended the exhibition and rember many may need more then one pram.

The price point of it was where people would buy one on the spot without much hesitation.

The birthing pool & Rocking hourse are such speciallised products they were never going to sell them.

Only 2% of births are home births yes ... but that doesn't mean more don't consider it. I know a few people who bought a birthing pool hoping for a home birth, but in the last few weeks complications, baby's position etc mean't they had to abandon the idea ... but they bought the pool ... so whose to say there weren't people at the show who would buy the pool but never acutally use it.

You are right that people need more than one pram and price is the key and this is exactly my point. Most people start with an expensive travel system, when they come to the point ( 9 months plus ) when baby is sitting up etc and they need a lighter model they are looking for something cheaper. You can buy perfectly good light buggys for around 30£ and upwards. They don't fold in one movement to that shape, but they fold in 2 or 3 movements in another shape and will save you 100£ ... and these are the simpliest buggies on the market but still from well known highly reputed brands. So for say 70 quid you can get an excellent buggy. I really think that while this buggy on it's own looks like a reasonably good buy and the fold up thing is a good selling point, when compared to the hundreds of other buggys at that show, it wouldn't have stood a chance.

If it was me, I'd have sold the birthing pool and the hat. The hat wasn't actually a product I liked and my daughter would have had it off in 5 seconds but it did work as an impulse buy.

Well clearly not, because they made over £700 from the birthing pools alone. The beauty of the product was in its multi-purpose element. Obviously only a very small number of women would be giving birth in water but a potentially limitless number could be persuaded of the benefits of labouring in water. As gone over exhaustively above.


But they did, didn't they? Given the revenue, they evidently sold to more than just a single-figure group of people. It was only the rocking horses that didn't shift.

The competitiveness of the pram market is precisely why that item was such a shoddy choice. It would have been fine, had the brand in question not been an obscure foreign untested one and arguably only marketable to parents with babies within a specific age range. For a travel system, 135 Betty Windsors is great. For a flimsy pram that won't even be useable until they can sit up, it's a bloody fortune!

As I said, the birthing pools hinge on the pitching. Realistically not many women give birth in water but a pregnant woman will be far more inclined to impulse spend on something that may come in handy during labour but if it doesn't then no sweat, than she would on an item that will be a massive pain in the arse and affect the child if it turns out to be a disaster. Birth pool bad - no big deal, use it or don't use it then throw it in the bin / garage. Pushchair bad - lug the kid about while you arse about looking for a new (and potentially more pricey) one.

the other team made roughly £1100 with two products and James et al made over £700 from just the birthing pool so yes IMO it was the right choice and had they picked something appart from the rocking horses they could have won


EDIT

though to be fair they probably got lucky choosing it

I can understand why James chose the birth pool:

1- The market is not as small as portrayed. The statistics given are for women who actually go through water and home birth. I have many friends who actually wanted a water birth plan but were not given the option because hospitals do not provide enough birth pools.

2- They had exclusivity for the birth pools.

3- They achieved £5000 worth of sales in the previous babyshow.

4- They had a good discount on it.

I also understand why he rejected the buggy:

1- There is a lot of competition.

2- It was not a famous make.

3- They had no exclusivity on it.

4- It was a new product: there are no previous statistics on how it did in the babyshow.