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New Microsoft Zune
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jbeavon
30-05-2009
Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“It's called the iPod Classic for a reason (see Mac Classic). And Touch sales far exceed it. It's only purpose is to satisfy the people who cannot live on 32GB.

Apps are now crucial IMO.

That said, as a pure PMP the Zune HD is a nice device. It's just that the market has moved on from pure PMPs. People are now coming to the idea that these devices (as well as their mobiles) are fully fledged computers.”

It may be called the iPod classic for a reason. But it's not just aimed at those who cannot live on 32GB. It's aimed at those who just want a device that can playback music and Video without any faff. The user interface on it is far nicer than the iPod Touch and is much more suited to the playback of music and video without any hassle.

The problem is, people are far too easily brainwashed into believing what marketing departments tell them to believe. They're told that having a PMP which is actually a mini computer is cool, therefore they believe they should have one. Whereas actually, for most people, they are totally unnecessary.
kobashi100
31-05-2009
I like the look of this but will it support drag & drop?

If not than no matter how good it is I am not buying it.
Cooleo
31-05-2009
Any idea if this will be available before August? I wanna pick one up on holiday.
_SpeedRacer_
31-05-2009
I currently own a Zune 2 (80GB)...

- Disk size is very disappointing. Why should I have to downgrade from 80GB to 32GB?
- Anyone know if they have improved the radio antenna? Because the one on the Zune 2 kinda sucks tbh. It's worse than my 10 year old Casio walkman.
- Not sure why I should care about HD video. The disk size is far too small to carry many HD files and music.
TheBigM
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by _SpeedRacer_:
“I currently own a Zune 2 (80GB)...

- Disk size is very disappointing. Why should I have to downgrade from 80GB to 32GB?
- Anyone know if they have improved the radio antenna? Because the one on the Zune 2 kinda sucks tbh. It's worse than my 10 year old Casio walkman.
- Not sure why I should care about HD video. The disk size is far too small to carry many HD files and music.”

So just don't buy one then.
_SpeedRacer_
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by TheBigM:
“So just don't buy one then.”

Ummm... ya. I was just expressing my opinion on why I think it will be a failure. I don't feel obliged to buy anything.
edgexedge
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by aaronon:
“It's not an iPod though. . .it's more akin to an iPod touch. It'll have the same memory and screen, and price so you can't just compare it to a standard MP3 playing iPod.”

Originally Posted by jammers:
“Windows CE is possibly the worst piece of software MS have ever written trying to do everything for everyone and not excelling at anything. If the Zune team have spent little time working out Windows CE for it then it will fail horribly - a Windows Phone without the phone or apps.

You miss the point that this is designed to compete with the iPod Touch yet it misses most of the features.”

Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“It's called the iPod Classic for a reason (see Mac Classic). And Touch sales far exceed it. It's only purpose is to satisfy the people who cannot live on 32GB.

Apps are now crucial IMO.

That said, as a pure PMP the Zune HD is a nice device. It's just that the market has moved on from pure PMPs. People are now coming to the idea that these devices (as well as their mobiles) are fully fledged computers.”



but is the iPod Touch marketed as a portable media player?
is it even built as one?

strangely enough, it dosnt say on the Apple site, seems even they might not know what it is.
wikipedia however:
'The iPod Touch is a portable media player, personal digital assistant'
'The iPod Touch and the iPhone, a smartphone by Apple, share the same hardware platform and are controlled by the same iPhone OS operating system'
'Steve Jobs once referred to the iPod Touch as "training wheels for the iPhone".'

whereas for the Zune:
'Zune is the product-line brand name for the Zune portable media players, Zune software, and Zune Marketplace services sold by Microsoft, which provide online music, video, and podcast downloads'


conclusion:
iPod Touch is 2 items merged into one, a media player & a pda
Zune is a media player, ie 1 item

so the Zune should be compared with other media players, like the ones made by Sansa, Creative etc



Windows CE - trying to do everything for everyone
er, its an operating system, thats what its meant to do.
its an embedded os, used on all sorts of different systems, & developers use it so that they dont have to keep writing code to handle basic functions like memory management.

Windows Mobile, windows phone, is not Windows CE, it runs on top of Windows CE.
the Zune is not designed to be a windows phone.

how can something be designed to compete with another product, when theyre in 2 different markets?
thats like saying a car is designed to compete with a van.



Apps are now crucial for what though?

the top 10 free apps on the app store:
8 of them are games/entertainment
theres then a Sky News feed reader, & a theory test app that isnt even the full thing
on the paid side, its 9 of them that are games/entertainment
only 3 of them are > £1


if people are coming to the idea that pmp's & phones are 'fully fledged computers'
how come netbooks have sold so well, as well as laptops selling so well in the past few years?





the Zune is a media player
it may do more over time, but as at the moment,it is only a media player.
it happens to have a better screen & decent memory compared to those available at the moment, but its not even out yet.
jammers
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by edgexedge:
“but is the iPod Touch marketed as a portable media player?
is it even built as one?

strangely enough, it dosnt say on the Apple site, seems even they might not know what it is.
wikipedia however:
'The iPod Touch is a portable media player, personal digital assistant'
'The iPod Touch and the iPhone, a smartphone by Apple, share the same hardware platform and are controlled by the same iPhone OS operating system'
'Steve Jobs once referred to the iPod Touch as "training wheels for the iPhone".'

whereas for the Zune:
'Zune is the product-line brand name for the Zune portable media players, Zune software, and Zune Marketplace services sold by Microsoft, which provide online music, video, and podcast downloads'


conclusion:
iPod Touch is 2 items merged into one, a media player & a pda
Zune is a media player, ie 1 item

so the Zune should be compared with other media players, like the ones made by Sansa, Creative etc



Windows CE - trying to do everything for everyone
er, its an operating system, thats what its meant to do.
its an embedded os, used on all sorts of different systems, & developers use it so that they dont have to keep writing code to handle basic functions like memory management.

Windows Mobile, windows phone, is not Windows CE, it runs on top of Windows CE.
the Zune is not designed to be a windows phone.

how can something be designed to compete with another product, when theyre in 2 different markets?
thats like saying a car is designed to compete with a van.



Apps are now crucial for what though?

the top 10 free apps on the app store:
8 of them are games/entertainment
theres then a Sky News feed reader, & a theory test app that isnt even the full thing
on the paid side, its 9 of them that are games/entertainment
only 3 of them are > £1


if people are coming to the idea that pmp's & phones are 'fully fledged computers'
how come netbooks have sold so well, as well as laptops selling so well in the past few years?





the Zune is a media player
it may do more over time, but as at the moment,it is only a media player.
it happens to have a better screen & decent memory compared to those available at the moment, but its not even out yet.”

Windows Mobile is Windows CE - toilet.

You can go on about it being a different product for a different market but it is going after the iPod Touch. Assuming it will be the same price, and I can't see MS getting it cheaper as they do not have the buying power of Apple in the flash memory stakes, it will do much less than the Touch and have a poorer content store.
Fromez
31-05-2009
I own an iPod touch and a Zune 80, and these are my thoughts:

I prefer Zune for music and video.

I like the touch because of its internet and email capabilities. Of the apps, Google Maps, Facebook and Weather are ones I use frequently, otherwise most are unused. I don't use it for games very often... games like Bejeweled, Super Monkey Ball and Peggle work ok, others that try and emulate consoles aren't great (shooters, racing, football).

So for me, the touch succeeds as a internet device, does well as a media player and only ok where apps are concerned. Some are useful, the majority I'd pass on.

I'm looking forward to the Zune HD because it'll be a great media player. I'm excited they're adding internet to it, because I'm sure Microsoft will add useful apps like email, Word and Messenger.

High Definition will work well imo...I fit plenty standard def videos on my touch and it's an 8gb. 16gb or 32gb should be fine for fitting some HD videos you have on the move. The wmv HD codec is decent at compression.

On top of this, they're going to be adding Xbox connectivity and most probably Xbox arcade games. Not so probably, but they could take the games capability beyond the iPod touch's, which looks pretty dodgy when you start adding more polygons.

In conclusion, I think the Zune HD will be better than the touch for a touch based media experience, as good as internet experience, probably less apps but some useful ones tied to Microsoft's licenses, and a superior gaming device.
Matt-08
31-05-2009
Sadly, it won't be seen as cool as the iPod, and therefore won't be as popular.

Might give Apple a few ideas for September though.
aaronon
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by Matt-08:
“Sadly, it won't be seen as cool as the iPod, and therefore won't be as popular.

Might give Apple a few ideas for September though.”

I don't think it will give Apple any ideas at all.
Matt-08
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by aaronon:
“I don't think it will give Apple any ideas at all.”

What about HD?
jammers
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by Matt-08:
“What about HD?”

IMO pointless in this sort of device as HD content is large and can only be played back using the Zune dock (sold separately at all good retailers). People who already own HD TVs are already likely to have something that can already play HD content on their TV like Sky HD, an Xbox, Apple TV etc. I don't see the point.
RED_
31-05-2009
Originally Posted by Matt-08:
“What about HD?”

Hardly like Microsoft invented HD. It must be on the books for loads of companies as that is the way forward. Supposedly Apple are going to have an OLED screen on their new iphone that comes out in june/july.
Dark 1
01-06-2009
I can see this being a big hit with the 'Anything but Apple' brigade in particular. To date, they've perhaps secretly enviously eyed Apple's flagship iPod, but out of principle, could only choose from poor imitations. Assuming Microsoft don't mess it up in some way, this looks like it could be the first worthy imitation.

Although, perhaps best wait and see what the imminently pending gen 3 Touch and OS 3.0 has to offer before we start drawing any definitive conclusions.
aaronon
01-06-2009
HD video on the movie is pointless and useless. It's nice to dock it to your TV and view it on the big screen though - that's a plus.

the negative is that unless they create an AMAZING codec that dramatically reduces file size of HD clips it will be a failure. Like most Zunes.
_SpeedRacer_
01-06-2009
Originally Posted by Fromez:
“High Definition will work well imo...I fit plenty standard def videos on my touch and it's an 8gb. 16gb or 32gb should be fine for fitting some HD videos you have on the move. The wmv HD codec is decent at compression.”

Standard videos are usually about 1/3 the size of a HD video.

So on the 16GB model, you could get 15 videos, assuming you had no music on there!

And I hope they support the common type, Matroska. If you have to convert to M2TS that's a bit more space gone per video.
RED_
01-06-2009
It'll defo be a hit with apple haters. Tbh i plan on getting this and the iphone because of the internet capabilities and apps. For a media player the Zune looks top notch.
RileyM
01-06-2009
I'm planning on getting one of these. I anyway need an PMP
Scrolllock
04-06-2009
Originally Posted by _SpeedRacer_:
“Standard videos are usually about 1/3 the size of a HD video.

So on the 16GB model, you could get 15 videos, assuming you had no music on there!

And I hope they support the common type, Matroska. If you have to convert to M2TS that's a bit more space gone per video.”

HD is 5-6 (depending on SD res. of location) more information than SD.

Including HD output on a device of that size is a waste to the extent that I would call it more of a demo or even a gimmick.
jbeavon
04-06-2009
Originally Posted by Scrolllock:
“HD is 5-6 (depending on SD res. of location) more information than SD.

Including HD output on a device of that size is a waste to the extent that I would call it more of a demo or even a gimmick.”

It all depends on the codec in use as well though to be fair. 720p encoded using H264 will come in about the same size as Freeview bitrate MPEG-2 SD video but with fewer artifacts and higher resolution too. Probably looking at just over 1GB per hour for reasonable quality 720p.

I'm not convinced that it is a gimmick though. Whilst the benefits of HD aren't going to be visible on the screen built into the device, it does provide the capablity to have a portable device that is ready to playback HD on larger devices. As it is now technically feasable to make such a device, I don't see any reason to not do so, seeing as a lot of technically minded people are now moving to HD based TV & Movie collections.
edgexedge
04-06-2009
it also has HD Radio
TheBigM
04-06-2009
Can it upscale SD video using the HD output?
_SpeedRacer_
05-06-2009
Originally Posted by jbeavon:
“It all depends on the codec in use as well though to be fair. 720p encoded using H264 will come in about the same size as Freeview bitrate MPEG-2 SD video but with fewer artifacts and higher resolution too. Probably looking at just over 1GB per hour for reasonable quality 720p.

I'm not convinced that it is a gimmick though. Whilst the benefits of HD aren't going to be visible on the screen built into the device, it does provide the capablity to have a portable device that is ready to playback HD on larger devices. As it is now technically feasable to make such a device, I don't see any reason to not do so, seeing as a lot of technically minded people are now moving to HD based TV & Movie collections.”

When "acquiring" certain TV shows at 720p, a 40 min program comes out at just over 1 GB using H264 Matroska and a third of that in xVid SD.

I cannot for the life of me work out why they've decided to reduce the size of the disk by over 50%.
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