In the VT before she actually came on the first time in her semi, I thought it weird when Simon was saying something like.."That's if she can do it tonight". They weren't the exact words, but something like that, almost as if they knew she wouldn't.
Hollie...knowing look?
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I dont believe that it was set up or anybody gave anybody else the nod or that Simon Cowell is psychic. It just happened how it happened but if people have to keep analysing it to basically discredit a 10 year old girl then so be it.
I don't think they'd try and make a 10-year-old pull a fast one like that, in case she acted really fake. And 10-year-olds blab as well.
AND most importantly, BGT don't want the publicity of making small children cry. No way would they ARRANGE for it to happen.
No, I think it was just a child desperate, pressured and distressed.
AND most importantly, BGT don't want the publicity of making small children cry. No way would they ARRANGE for it to happen.
No, I think it was just a child desperate, pressured and distressed.
Originally Posted by abercrombie:
“Hi all,
Sorry to keep this subject going, but it has been bugging me.
In the semi when HS loses the words and asks for a second chance, does anyone else think that she gives someone off to the right a knowing look for a microsecond?
Without the benefit of youtube, a lot of these discussions would have to fizzle away to nothing, but now we can analyze and reanalyze to our heart's content.
Sorry if this is being discussed already somewhere else.”
“Hi all,
Sorry to keep this subject going, but it has been bugging me.
In the semi when HS loses the words and asks for a second chance, does anyone else think that she gives someone off to the right a knowing look for a microsecond?
Without the benefit of youtube, a lot of these discussions would have to fizzle away to nothing, but now we can analyze and reanalyze to our heart's content.
Sorry if this is being discussed already somewhere else.”
This subject is bugging me. The whole conspiracy idea is a non-starter. At least the OP had the temerity to apoligize for opening the same, boring, unwarrented debate.
Originally Posted by CARA2000:
“This subject is bugging me. The whole conspiracy idea is a non-starter. At least the OP had the temerity to apoligize for opening the same, boring, unwarrented debate.”
“This subject is bugging me. The whole conspiracy idea is a non-starter. At least the OP had the temerity to apoligize for opening the same, boring, unwarrented debate.
”
I agree, the conspiracy idea doesn't hold up. If Hollie's mother put her up to staging a breakdown then that would have been a huge gamble. The producers could have just said "no, sorry love, that's the end of your act" and bundled her off the stage never to be seen again.
As for the idea that the show's makers somehow staged the breakdown, I think a lot of people would have had to be in on it or would have got to hear of it on the night, and one of them wouldn't be able to resist blabbing to the press. It would be the end of the show, and too big a risk for the producers.
Originally Posted by CARA2000:
“At least the OP had the temerity to apoligize for opening the same, boring, unwarrented debate.”
“At least the OP had the temerity to apoligize for opening the same, boring, unwarrented debate.
”
Except they then came back to give us the "scoop" on a video that had been kicking around for days....
It doesn't seem to occur that the press will aready have analyzed every nanosecond of footage, probably magnified and enhanced by NASA along with a spectrogram of her breath
What is just as strange is the crowd start to cheep when she breaks down. When she starts to lose her way listen to the crowd cheering. LOL
It's around the 52 - 53 seconds mark.
"Hey, look, she's lost the plot and crying, let's cheer!"
If she did fake it BGT must have been in on the deception because there was no guarantee she would get another go. I think it was a genuine case of nerves but you never know!
It's around the 52 - 53 seconds mark.
"Hey, look, she's lost the plot and crying, let's cheer!"
If she did fake it BGT must have been in on the deception because there was no guarantee she would get another go. I think it was a genuine case of nerves but you never know!
I think it was absolutely genuine. There is no way that as a show they would risk a 10 year old could perform a set up properly.
Originally Posted by EEfan24:
“I think it was absolutely genuine. There is no way that as a show they would risk a 10 year old could perform a set up properly.”
“I think it was absolutely genuine. There is no way that as a show they would risk a 10 year old could perform a set up properly.”
The only reason people are still talking about it is because she coincidentally broke down at the same moment that von Trapp broke down when singing it in the original film, which is surely coincidental. She can't have seen it... she'd just be taught the song.
As you say, no way she could do it properly, she forgot her lines and cracked, sometimes I wonder about conspiracy theories...
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“i think people are still going to forensically examine this for some time to come.
are we, as a society, so jaded that we can't just accept that a little girl tried to sing a song on tv, forgot the words and got upset ?
do we have to look for a conspiracy ?”
“i think people are still going to forensically examine this for some time to come.
are we, as a society, so jaded that we can't just accept that a little girl tried to sing a song on tv, forgot the words and got upset ?
do we have to look for a conspiracy ?”
I don't know, in my experience, little girls never cry. Especially when under pressure! Come on, it MUST have been a fix
Originally Posted by leaby:
“I don't know, in my experience, little girls never cry. Especially when under pressure! Come on, it MUST have been a fix”
“I don't know, in my experience, little girls never cry. Especially when under pressure! Come on, it MUST have been a fix
”
Yep, and little boys of 12 never cry if they're really tired out either.
Some people (sigh).
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“She was looking at her mother who was sitting on the stage in front of her and slightly to Hollie's left.
I didn't like her, and don't think she should have got her second attempt, but this is clutching at straws....”
“She was looking at her mother who was sitting on the stage in front of her and slightly to Hollie's left.
I didn't like her, and don't think she should have got her second attempt, but this is clutching at straws....”
I agree. I think we should forget about it all now. She came bottom in the final so the public had the last word. It's not right to analyse everything about this very young child.
Originally Posted by pickledgherkin:
“I agree. I think we should forget about it all now. She came bottom in the final so the public had the last word. It's not right to analyse everything about this very young child.”
“I agree. I think we should forget about it all now. She came bottom in the final so the public had the last word. It's not right to analyse everything about this very young child.”
No she didn't...
Originally Posted by ForestChav:
“she coincidentally broke down at the same moment that von Trapp broke down when singing it in the original film, .”
“she coincidentally broke down at the same moment that von Trapp broke down when singing it in the original film, .”
Just maybe someone was supposed to come out and help her a al Christopher Plummer in the movie? Now that would be a theory
Sorry I think this is all so daft - but it does show that we cannot believe anything we see with this show and the PR around it is now getting really sickening as we all know everything we read is set up
Originally Posted by abercrombie:
“Hi all,
Sorry to keep this subject going, but it has been bugging me.
In the semi when HS loses the words and asks for a second chance, does anyone else think that she gives someone off to the right a knowing look for a microsecond?
Without the benefit of youtube, a lot of these discussions would have to fizzle away to nothing, but now we can analyze and reanalyze to our heart's content.
Sorry if this is being discussed already somewhere else.”
“Hi all,
Sorry to keep this subject going, but it has been bugging me.
In the semi when HS loses the words and asks for a second chance, does anyone else think that she gives someone off to the right a knowing look for a microsecond?
Without the benefit of youtube, a lot of these discussions would have to fizzle away to nothing, but now we can analyze and reanalyze to our heart's content.
Sorry if this is being discussed already somewhere else.”
Maye she did, maybe she didn't. Either way, she didn't win.
I am not particularly a Hollie fan but I don't for one minute think this was staged and I think people are definitely overanalysing.
The OP said that she appeared to look at someone in the audience.
Well the other day our local news had an interview with Hollie and her Mum (North West news). She was asked about the semis and her explanation was something along the lines of...
"I swallowed at the wrong moment. Then I am such a perfectionist I thought 'Oh no I have gone wrong'. Then I swallowed again. Then I saw someones face in the audience go <here she just made a sort of shocked, open-mouthed expression> and then I got upset"
So if she did appear to be looking at someone in the audience maybe this was her clocking the face that put her off.
Anyway. Moving on....
The OP said that she appeared to look at someone in the audience.
Well the other day our local news had an interview with Hollie and her Mum (North West news). She was asked about the semis and her explanation was something along the lines of...
"I swallowed at the wrong moment. Then I am such a perfectionist I thought 'Oh no I have gone wrong'. Then I swallowed again. Then I saw someones face in the audience go <here she just made a sort of shocked, open-mouthed expression> and then I got upset"
So if she did appear to be looking at someone in the audience maybe this was her clocking the face that put her off.
Anyway. Moving on....
Originally Posted by ~*~Jess~*~:
“I must admit, I said the same thing to my friend the other day. Not about the look, but the fact that the crying noise was really odd and then she carried on singing and then again did the strange crying noise. If that was Greg Pritchard would he have been given another chance to perform if he had 'forgotton' his words?”
“I must admit, I said the same thing to my friend the other day. Not about the look, but the fact that the crying noise was really odd and then she carried on singing and then again did the strange crying noise. If that was Greg Pritchard would he have been given another chance to perform if he had 'forgotton' his words?”
I've not really been drawn into this, but it was noticeable with both Natalie and Aiden that it was the tears that came first - their little faces just crumpled (even I was upset!).
Holly's crying sounded to me like the sort of crying you'd do if you were acting it - a bit OTT, so that people got the message, and rather like the little girl who plays Dottie in EastEnders. I've no idea if I'm over-analysing this, maybe some kids do actually "boo hoo" in this way, but it did seem strange.
Originally Posted by susie-4964:
“I've not really been drawn into this, but it was noticeable with both Natalie and Aiden that it was the tears that came first - their little faces just crumpled (even I was upset!).”
“I've not really been drawn into this, but it was noticeable with both Natalie and Aiden that it was the tears that came first - their little faces just crumpled (even I was upset!).
”
Yeah, Aidan looked like he was about to break down and was holding something in after he'd finished, before he was being interviewed and before simon's comments, I just think he was shattered after having to dance the night before and come back in the day after with little sleep and rehearse 3 times a new routine after they had told him he couldn't do his audition again - like most of the singers did. Dancing like that is tiring anyway, even for a boy of 12 who is physically fit because he does martial arts.
Isn't Aidan tiny though? I mean, look at his face and you can tell he's about 11/12 but he looks about 9 size-wise.
Originally Posted by pickledgherkin:
“I agree. I think we should forget about it all now. She came bottom in the final so the public had the last word. It's not right to analyse everything about this very young child.”
“I agree. I think we should forget about it all now. She came bottom in the final so the public had the last word. It's not right to analyse everything about this very young child.”
Actually she came a very credible 6th. Beating both Shaheen and Flawless in the process. She came a comfortable second in the voting in her semi-final as well.
As for the conspiracy theory? Well such things are nice in theory, when you come and analyse them in the cold light of day, in retrospect, they can make you look rather silly. Just ask Mr al-Fayed
Originally Posted by Cult of Z-List:
“Actually she came a very credible 6th. Beating both Shaheen and Flawless in the process. She came a comfortable second in the voting in her semi-final as well. ”
“Actually she came a very credible 6th. Beating both Shaheen and Flawless in the process. She came a comfortable second in the voting in her semi-final as well. ”
I think that Hollie's "bravery" in the semi finals probably got her a lot more votes in the final as well - probably ahead of Shaz (regardless of performance) in those wanting to vote for a kid singer. Same kind of thing with Flawless and Diversity.
In fact, I can think of a few different "battlegrounds" where Shaz would be put up against other contestants, so he wasn't ever going to get as many votes in FPTP, despite the fact he delivered (IMO) one of the best final performances and probably one of the best vocal performances I have ever heard from a 12 year old boy - he is *that* good.
Sadly, I think he was also discredited by BGT who weren't especially honest over his past and tried to be somewhat economical over what he actually is, as well as his song choices.
Maybe it might be better to vote by asking if each contestant is talented enough or something and get a yes/no then who gets the most yesses rather than a single vote for one candidate, I guess that too has its own flaws.
Originally Posted by xmsradx:
“I don't think they'd try and make a 10-year-old pull a fast one like that, in case she acted really fake. And 10-year-olds blab as well.
AND most importantly, BGT don't want the publicity of making small children cry. No way would they ARRANGE for it to happen.
No, I think it was just a child desperate, pressured and distressed.”
“I don't think they'd try and make a 10-year-old pull a fast one like that, in case she acted really fake. And 10-year-olds blab as well.
AND most importantly, BGT don't want the publicity of making small children cry. No way would they ARRANGE for it to happen.
No, I think it was just a child desperate, pressured and distressed.”
I'm surprised at this thread
. Your applying logic and common sense. Do you know nothing of the DS tradition of inventing wild theories which take on a life of their own, become accepted as fact, micro analysed, and judged upon, regardless of wether there is a scrap of actual evidence to support them or not. It's like the Chinese Whispers of the internet age(I WAS being ironic .......)
Originally Posted by ForestChav:
“I think that Hollie's "bravery" in the semi finals probably got her a lot more votes in the final as well - probably ahead of Shaz (regardless of performance) in those wanting to vote for a kid singer. Same kind of thing with Flawless and Diversity.
In fact, I can think of a few different "battlegrounds" where Shaz would be put up against other contestants, so he wasn't ever going to get as many votes in FPTP, despite the fact he delivered (IMO) one of the best final performances and probably one of the best vocal performances I have ever heard from a 12 year old boy - he is *that* good.
Sadly, I think he was also discredited by BGT who weren't especially honest over his past and tried to be somewhat economical over what he actually is, as well as his song choices.
Maybe it might be better to vote by asking if each contestant is talented enough or something and get a yes/no then who gets the most yesses rather than a single vote for one candidate, I guess that too has its own flaws.”
“I think that Hollie's "bravery" in the semi finals probably got her a lot more votes in the final as well - probably ahead of Shaz (regardless of performance) in those wanting to vote for a kid singer. Same kind of thing with Flawless and Diversity.
In fact, I can think of a few different "battlegrounds" where Shaz would be put up against other contestants, so he wasn't ever going to get as many votes in FPTP, despite the fact he delivered (IMO) one of the best final performances and probably one of the best vocal performances I have ever heard from a 12 year old boy - he is *that* good.
Sadly, I think he was also discredited by BGT who weren't especially honest over his past and tried to be somewhat economical over what he actually is, as well as his song choices.
Maybe it might be better to vote by asking if each contestant is talented enough or something and get a yes/no then who gets the most yesses rather than a single vote for one candidate, I guess that too has its own flaws.”
I'm not having a pop at Shaheen. I liked him. And I actually voted for Flawless. I'm just pointing out what the actual placings were
Incidently, just as many people on this forum thought Hollie had a strop and acted like a spoiled madam, so the whole incident could just as easily lost her votes as gained her votes. I guess this is just something we will never know for sure.
Originally Posted by Cult of Z-List:
“I'm not having a pop at Shaheen. I liked him. And I actually voted for Flawless. I'm just pointing out what the actual placings were
Incidently, just as many people on this forum thought Hollie had a strop and acted like a spoiled madam, so the whole incident could just as easily lost her votes as gained her votes. I guess this is just something we will never know for sure.”
“I'm not having a pop at Shaheen. I liked him. And I actually voted for Flawless. I'm just pointing out what the actual placings were
Incidently, just as many people on this forum thought Hollie had a strop and acted like a spoiled madam, so the whole incident could just as easily lost her votes as gained her votes. I guess this is just something we will never know for sure.”
I never said you didn't and I was just adding points into the mix, in any case, Shaheen is a brilliant kid, he's intelligent, normal, popular and has an excellent singing voice - he'll go far.
As for Hollie, the fact she got through to the final (if she was going to have a backlash for breaking down, it would have been then, not the final) indicates that it wasn't as likely to be a vote winner, but I guess we'll never know why people voted.
Looking at possible divisions is always interesting though.
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