Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners

Phil S · 03-06-2009, 16:40

I understand that there are just two 32" TVs on the market at present with built in Freesat: the Panasonic TX-L32G10 (£680ish) or the LG 32LF7700 (£550ish).

Can someone tell me whether they also have a built in DVB-T tuner (ie, Freeview)?

Got any views on which is the better set? The LG is significantly cheaper?

cordunkni · 03-06-2009, 16:50

The Panasonic TX-L37G10 has a freeview tuner, so I'd expect the '32 does too. You can find manuals on the Panasonic site.

LGs website suggests that it does too (DVB-T tuner is the magic phrase):
http://uk.lge.com/products/model/det...2lf7700.jhtml#

soulboy77 · 03-06-2009, 17:26

As a general statement yes, all the make/models currently on the UK market do but always check the spec. before buying.

RichardLister · 04-06-2009, 21:53

I've got the 37" Panasonic and yes it does have freeview as I'm watching it now awaiting to get a freesat dish. The TV is fantastic and I haven't even thrown any HD (freesat or Blue Ray) at it yet.
I have a thomson TUTV box (don't use TUTV - just the recording onto Hard drive) the freeview picture on this is better than the Pany freeview. Even recordings - no loss of quality whatsoever.
R

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil S

I understand that there are just two 32" TVs on the market at present with built in Freesat: the Panasonic TX-L32G10 (£680ish) or the LG 32LF7700 (£550ish).

Can someone tell me whether they also have a built in DVB-T tuner (ie, Freeview)?

Both "FREESAT" and "FREEVIEW" receivers!

Perhaps those previous posters may wish to examine their answers again. But I would doubt it. It's not impossible, but there would be a great deal of channel duplication.

Freesat receivers are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. Freesat have recently turned down the first batch of "Alba" products (which cover 3 different badged makes) because they failed their technical tests (after arriving en-masse in British ports). So the Freesat "qualification" has caused a little bother.

I don't know why they bothered with "Freesat" is just an EPG for a relatively small number of the "Free to Air" satellite services. At least Sky's EPG gives you access to "encrypted" premium channels.

So I can't get too excited about Freesat anyway, nothing is encyrpted and everything on it (including and in particular ITV HD) is available to watch anyway.

I haven't found a channel that doesn't include a schedule in the stream, anyway - so the Freesat EPG is somewhat superflous in my view, although it may offer some sort of extended schedule.

Nigel Goodwin · 05-06-2009, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Both "FREESAT" and "FREEVIEW" receivers!

Perhaps those previous posters may wish to examine their answers again. But I would doubt it. It's not impossible, but there would be a great deal of channel duplication.

Sorry, but you obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about - of course all Freesat TV's have Freeview tuners as well, they would be pretty useless if they didn't, and I don't think you're even allowed to sell TV's without Freeview tuners?.

Quote:

Freesat receivers are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. Freesat have recently turned down the first batch of "Alba" products (which cover 3 different badged makes) because they failed their technical tests (after arriving en-masse in British ports). So the Freesat "qualification" has caused a little bother.

Have you been stuck in a timewarp somewhere?, Alba Freesat boxes have been out for over a year now - your post is completely wrong on every point.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Sorry, but you obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about

Have you been stuck in a timewarp somewhere?

I too am a little surprised at Rob's reply. My first thought was that he'd posted it in the middle of the night (after a couple of drinks or more) because it was just full of the most basic errors.

Yes, he can be a little pedantic on his descriptions of different audio encoding methods, but he's normally pretty clued-up on AV subjects. And to then post the previous thread - it just isn't like him at all. Almost makes you think somebody has used his PC to log on to DS, which automatically remembers his username and password, but isn't really Rob at all.

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 10:12

Sorry to pop your bubble guys, but I think I'm a lot more clued up then you give me credit for. I quote

Quote:

it's not impossible

Oh, and being both disabled and a diabetic I cannot afford to drink either financially, or medically. So I would appreciate it if you kept the personal comments to yourself.

This article [click] is dated May 28th on the independent "JOIN FREESAT" site.

All Freesat channels are unencrypted, and therefore Free to Air, and therefore do not require "FREESAT" membership.

I don't use a Freesat receiver, and I can get ITV HD on it's own channel number without any of this "Red Button" nonsense that Freesat and (probably) Sky customers are subjected to. Making it near impossible for them to set timeshifted recordings on ITV HD.

Also, perhaps someone would like to explain to me WHY a TV with a Freesat receiver would need a Freeview receiver?

Freesat is DVB-S - Freeview is DVB-T. There's no (legal or otherwise) reason I can imagine why one would necessarily require the other.

Perhaps you're still a bit dozy from your overnight slumbers and haven't had your morning coffee yet.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

All Freesat channels are unencrypted, and therefore Free to Air, and therefore do not require "FREESAT" membership.

So what?

The OP asked whether Freesat TVs also contained digital tuners, allowing him to pick up Freeview as well. The answer to his question is yes. Whether FTA satellite channels come under the Freesat umbrella or not is of no importance.

The term "Freesat TV" is used for a television which has a satellite input connection, and provides the Freesat EPG. That's it. None of this purchasing external satellite decoder boxes malarkey which then need connecting to the TV (via HDMI or component if high definition is required). The TV has the tuner built in, and allows the user to watch FTA satellite channels including the high def ones.

But all this is irrelevent. The user wasn't asking about Freesat - or Free To Air satellite channels. He was asking whether he will also get Freeview channels on a Freesat TV. The answer is yes.

What you feel about Freesat matters not one jot. Why bother buying an extra box if the TV has a satellite tuner (and the EPG) built in? And as long as it can receive digital terrestrial channels also (which the OP has been informed they all can) means the OP is now happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Also, perhaps someone would like to explain to me WHY a TV with a Freesat receiver would need a Freeview receiver?

Because there are lots of channels available for free on Freeview that aren't available FTA on satellite. And there are lots of channels available for free on satellite that aren't available at all on Freeview.

Because channels which are available on both are often broadcast at a higher bitrate - and therefore provide a better picture - via terrestrial digital television (i.e. ITV SD).

Because not everybody has both a TV aerial and a satellite dish.

Because bad weather can affect satellite reception but allow terrestrial reception - and vice versa.

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 10:43

So what? You don't have to have a Freeview receiver in a Freesat TV. Just because the two illustrated do, doesn't make it a prerequisite.

I acknowledge that you can buy a TV that suits your needs.

The OPs original question is, as the thread is entitled, "Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners" (sic).

Blimey, we were in a lot of trouble during the days of terrestrial only broadcasts.

No one every got to watch anything.

You've obviously missunderstood my question - perhaps I wasn't clear enough, and should have made a statement of it. None of your answers actually give me the fundamental answer to the reasoning behind the question.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

So what? You don't have to have a Freeview receiver in a Freesat TV. Just because the two illustrated do, doesn't make it a prerequisite.

The OPs original question is, as the thread is entitled, "Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners" (sic).

Okay. Just to draw a line on this - the answer to the OP's question is:

"Yes, every Freesat TV currently available to buy in the UK at the present also contains a Freeview tuner. It is possible that one produced in the future will not have a Freeview tuner built into it, but it will probably prove financial suicide for a manufacturer to release such a product. Inclusion of a digital tuner will possibly add a couple of quid to the manufacturing costs of that television, and in an effort to save costs the manufacturer may decide to do away with such a component. But, as that will almost certainly limit the selling potential of the product, for somebody to do that would mean they were mentally unstable."

Okay?

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Wontie

Okay. Just to draw a line on this - the answer to the OP's question is:

"Yes, every Freesat TV currently available to buy in the UK at the present also contains a Freeview tuner. It is possible that one produced in the future will not have a Freeview tuner built into it, but it will probably prove financial suicide for a manufacturer to release such a product. Inclusion of a digital tuner will possibly add a couple of quid to the manufacturing costs of that television, and in an effort to save costs the manufacturer may decide to do away with such a component. But, as that will almost certainly limit the selling potential of the product, for somebody to do that would mean they were mentally unstable."

Okay?

Why? Save a penny save a pound, my mum always said. Any marketing professional will tell you to aim your product at a specific target market. Rather than try to sell matchsticks to those with lighters.

AND someone said (I'm not going to read back to find out who) I was wrong on absolutely every point, and accused me of drunkeness. That is blatently untrue. I would demand an apology, but I'm not that petty.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Why? Save a penny save a pound, my mum always said.

Because you are immediately making the product unattractive to somebody who wants to watch digital terrestrial TV channels which aren't available for free on satellite. No Dave, no Virgin1, no Sky Sports News. Those are the three available for free on Freeview but not FTA on satellite at the moment. There may be more - both now and in the future.

You are also producing a product which is far less stable than one which also contains a DVB-T tuner in it. More people have problems with satellite reception than they do with terrestrial reception. A satellite dish must be positioned with a clear line of sight to the satellite clusters - i.e. almost always on an outside wall.

A TV aerial can be mounted indoors and still pick up crystal clear reception. So, when there are rain or snow storms going on, a lot of people lose satellite reception. If their TV didn't also provide terrestrial reception, they can't watch live TV.

Why would any manufacturer provide a product with such an obvious shortfall?

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Wontie

Because you are immediately making the product unattractive to somebody who wants to watch digital terrestrial TV channels which aren't available for free on satellite. No Dave, no Virgin1, no Sky Sports News. Those are the three available for free on Freeview but not FTA on satellite at the moment. There may be more - both now and in the future.

You are also producing a product which is far less stable than one which also contains a DVB-T tuner in it. More people have problems with satellite reception than they do with terrestrial reception. A satellite dish must be positioned with a clear line of sight to the satellite clusters - i.e. almost always on an outside wall.

A TV aerial can be mounted indoors and still pick up crystal clear reception. So, when there are rain or snow storms going on, a lot of people lose satellite reception. If their TV didn't also provide terrestrial reception, they can't watch live TV.

Why would any manufacturer provide a product with such an obvious shortfall?

Because it still manages to offer a wider range of channel viewing options than Freeview? Well, if we get rid of the ridiculous "Freesat" limitation, that is. Satellite FTA has much more to offer then either Freesat or Freeview. Yet FTA still has all the Freesat channels anyway.

Using your approach, every TV would have a cable DVB-C(?) receiver in it too.

Nigel Goodwin · 05-06-2009, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Why? Save a penny save a pound, my mum always said. Any marketing professional will tell you to aim your product at a specific target market. Rather than try to sell matchsticks to those with lighters.

It would be commercial suicide to produce a Freesat TV without a Freeview tuner - they all have them - I doubt you can buy a TV without a Freeview tuner, certainly not of any decent make, and not for a number of years.

Quote:

AND someone said (I'm not going to read back to find out who) I was wrong on absolutely every point, and accused me of drunkeness. That is blatently untrue. I would demand an apology, but I'm not that petty.

Presumably it referred to your assertion about Alba Freesat boxes?, which didn't bear even the faintest resemblance to the truth.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Because it still manages to offer a wider range of channel viewing options than Freeview? Well, if we get rid of the ridiculous "Freesat" limitation, that is. Satellite FTA has much more to offer then either Freesat or Freeview. Yet FTA still has all the Freesat channels anyway.

I'm not arguing with you about that. I'm well aware that there are a lot more channels available via satellite than there are via TV aerial. In fact, I already mentioned that earlier in the thread. But it still doesn't disguise the fact that these channels which are free via TV aerial have to be paid for to watch on satellite - and also doesn't disguise the fact that satellite reception is often not as good as terrestrial reception. So whether more channels are available or not doesn't really help, if you want to watch Sky Sports News or if there is a blizzard going on outside your house. Cos you can't watch it via FTA satellite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Using your approach, every TV would have a cable DVB-C(?) receiver in it too.

Why? Does any cable provider offer free channels as long as your TV is connected to their cable, regardless of whether you pay them anything or not? And does it cost peanuts to provide a cable connection and a cable tuner in a TV set - like it does for a terrestrial tuner?

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Wontie

Why? Does any cable provider offer free channels as long as your TV is connected to their cable, regardless of whether you pay them anything or not? And does it cost peanuts to provide a cable connection and a cable tuner in a TV set - like it does for a terrestrial tuner?

Cable TV is free to Virgin Media Cable landline telephone subscribers. It would great for VM if they didn't have to provide a cable STB to subscribers who don't pay for the service. It would put them on a financial par (subscriber wise) as terrestrial or satellite providers.

Delivery is a cost borne by the service provider - so the actual connection itself is irrelevant within your argument. I can't think of any reason why a DVB-C digital tuner would be any cheaper or more expensive than any other digital tuner.

Phil S · 05-06-2009, 11:13

I'm the OP.

Thanks for the answers, didn't want to start WW3.

I'm happy now that these TVs contain both tuners.

Where I am, Mux 2 (ITV etc) on Freeview is unreliable to say the least even with a proper high gain grouped aerial, so I thought a dish and Freesat TV would be the answer (I need a new TV anyway). However I don't want to lose the Freeview ability because I do watch SSN and Dave quite a lot. Thus my question about both tuners in these sets.

Thanks again.

Nigel Goodwin · 05-06-2009, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Cable TV is free to Virgin Media Cable landline telephone subscribers. It would great for VM if they didn't have to provide a cable STB to subscribers who don't pay for the service. It would put them on a financial par (subscriber wise) as terrestrial or satellite providers.

Cable TV is NEVER free - you even pay for the PSB channels.

It may be included in the basic phone package - but cancel your phone package and you lose your TV, including the PSB's.

VM certainly don't want TV's with built-in cable tuners, just as Sky don't built-in Sky tuners - it's not a good idea for subscription TV, and in VM's case they don't even let you buy or own a box.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Cable TV is free to Virgin Media Cable landline telephone subscribers. It would great for VM if they didn't have to provide a cable STB to subscribers who don't pay for the service. It would put them on a financial par (subscriber wise) as terrestrial or satellite providers.

Then maybe Virgin ought to get in touch with one of the TV manufacturers and offer to do a deal with them. Build cable receivers into all your new tellies and Virgin fund half the development and production costs. It will save them having to provide cable boxes to anybody who does want to use Virgin's cable TV system, and it might bring in new customers who have bought one of these tellies and realise that they can suddenly start receiving digital cable television without any extra expense of they take out a phone and broadband deal with Virgin. And it should make the tellies more attractive to potential customers who already do have phone or broadband through Virgin, but don't want to shell out on a box to receive digital TV through.

Rob, you may have hit on a partnership made in heaven...

Edit: Although having just read Nigel's reply above, perhaps not.

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil S

I'm the OP.

Thanks for the answers, didn't want to start WW3.

Don't worry, you didn't. It was a rather unfortunate immature statement (not by you) that caused me to go a bit ballistic.

Chris Frost · 05-06-2009, 11:21

Rob, chill out mate.

For a screen to be sold as a TV in the UK it needs to have a Freeview (DVB-T) tuner. So any current model TV on sale in the UK today is going to have a Freeview tuner built in regardless of any other additional types of tuner.

The OP's post is a little confusing. He talks about Freesat - but actually these sets have Freesat HD. This is currently the only way to get a free-to-air HD service.

So these two sets have regular Freeview tuners and are enhanced with the additional feature of Freesat HD.

[edit: Started typing this, broke off to take a phone call, finished and posted but the conv has moved on and dust seems to have settled

]

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Cable TV is NEVER free - you even pay for the PSB channels.

It may be included in the basic phone package - but cancel your phone package and you lose your TV, including the PSB's.

VM certainly don't want TV's with built-in cable tuners, just as Sky don't built-in Sky tuners - it's not a good idea for subscription TV, and in VM's case they don't even let you buy or own a box.

Are you sure? I've done a bit of looking around recently, and DVB-C cards for computers are available - if thin on the ground. Although I'm not sure whether anyone is actually using one, so cannot ascertain whether or not FTA channels are actually encrypted.

I have VM! Total cost for Cable TV STB, Telephone with Free UK national calls, discounted international and mobile calls is less than £11/mo (before my loyalty discount).

Plus, of course, broadband internet now gives even greater real time broadcast and on demand TV channels and services.

Willie Wontie · 05-06-2009, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

He talks about Freesat - but actually these sets have Freesat HD. This is currently the only way to get a free-to-air HD service.

Or a Sky HD box without subscription. Or (as Rob uses) an external satellite receiver which allows him to tune in to (and record) ITV HD rather than accessing it via a red button, or by viewing it as an additional channel which doesn't allow recording to the Sky HD hard drive.

RobAnt · 05-06-2009, 11:33

Quote:

The OP's post is a little confusing. He talks about Freesat - but actually these sets have Freesat HD. This is currently the only way to get a free-to-air HD service.

And there we go, the same fundamental error you keep making.

Freesat HD IS NOT the only way to get HD without subscription.

03-06-2009, 16:40	#1
Phil S Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,749	Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners I understand that there are just two 32" TVs on the market at present with built in Freesat: the Panasonic TX-L32G10 (£680ish) or the LG 32LF7700 (£550ish). Can someone tell me whether they also have a built in DVB-T tuner (ie, Freeview)? Got any views on which is the better set? The LG is significantly cheaper?

03-06-2009, 16:50	#2
cordunkni Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 262	The Panasonic TX-L37G10 has a freeview tuner, so I'd expect the '32 does too. You can find manuals on the Panasonic site. LGs website suggests that it does too (DVB-T tuner is the magic phrase): http://uk.lge.com/products/model/det...2lf7700.jhtml#

03-06-2009, 17:26	#3
soulboy77 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Herts Posts: 17,005	As a general statement yes, all the make/models currently on the UK market do but always check the spec. before buying.

04-06-2009, 21:53	#4
RichardLister Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Halifax, West Yorks Posts: 224	I've got the 37" Panasonic and yes it does have freeview as I'm watching it now awaiting to get a freesat dish. The TV is fantastic and I haven't even thrown any HD (freesat or Blue Ray) at it yet. I have a thomson TUTV box (don't use TUTV - just the recording onto Hard drive) the freeview picture on this is better than the Pany freeview. Even recordings - no loss of quality whatsoever. R

05-06-2009, 07:24	#5
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Phil S I understand that there are just two 32" TVs on the market at present with built in Freesat: the Panasonic TX-L32G10 (£680ish) or the LG 32LF7700 (£550ish). Can someone tell me whether they also have a built in DVB-T tuner (ie, Freeview)? Both "FREESAT" and "FREEVIEW" receivers! Perhaps those previous posters may wish to examine their answers again. But I would doubt it. It's not impossible, but there would be a great deal of channel duplication. Freesat receivers are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. Freesat have recently turned down the first batch of "Alba" products (which cover 3 different badged makes) because they failed their technical tests (after arriving en-masse in British ports). So the Freesat "qualification" has caused a little bother. I don't know why they bothered with "Freesat" is just an EPG for a relatively small number of the "Free to Air" satellite services. At least Sky's EPG gives you access to "encrypted" premium channels. So I can't get too excited about Freesat anyway, nothing is encyrpted and everything on it (including and in particular ITV HD) is available to watch anyway. I haven't found a channel that doesn't include a schedule in the stream, anyway - so the Freesat EPG is somewhat superflous in my view, although it may offer some sort of extended schedule.

05-06-2009, 09:43	#6
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Both "FREESAT" and "FREEVIEW" receivers! Perhaps those previous posters may wish to examine their answers again. But I would doubt it. It's not impossible, but there would be a great deal of channel duplication. Sorry, but you obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about - of course all Freesat TV's have Freeview tuners as well, they would be pretty useless if they didn't, and I don't think you're even allowed to sell TV's without Freeview tuners?. Quote: Freesat receivers are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. Freesat have recently turned down the first batch of "Alba" products (which cover 3 different badged makes) because they failed their technical tests (after arriving en-masse in British ports). So the Freesat "qualification" has caused a little bother. Have you been stuck in a timewarp somewhere?, Alba Freesat boxes have been out for over a year now - your post is completely wrong on every point.

05-06-2009, 09:56	#7
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Sorry, but you obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about Have you been stuck in a timewarp somewhere? I too am a little surprised at Rob's reply. My first thought was that he'd posted it in the middle of the night (after a couple of drinks or more) because it was just full of the most basic errors. Yes, he can be a little pedantic on his descriptions of different audio encoding methods, but he's normally pretty clued-up on AV subjects. And to then post the previous thread - it just isn't like him at all. Almost makes you think somebody has used his PC to log on to DS, which automatically remembers his username and password, but isn't really Rob at all.

05-06-2009, 10:12	#8
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Sorry to pop your bubble guys, but I think I'm a lot more clued up then you give me credit for. I quote Quote: it's not impossible Oh, and being both disabled and a diabetic I cannot afford to drink either financially, or medically. So I would appreciate it if you kept the personal comments to yourself. This article [click] is dated May 28th on the independent "JOIN FREESAT" site. All Freesat channels are unencrypted, and therefore Free to Air, and therefore do not require "FREESAT" membership. I don't use a Freesat receiver, and I can get ITV HD on it's own channel number without any of this "Red Button" nonsense that Freesat and (probably) Sky customers are subjected to. Making it near impossible for them to set timeshifted recordings on ITV HD. Also, perhaps someone would like to explain to me WHY a TV with a Freesat receiver would need a Freeview receiver? Freesat is DVB-S - Freeview is DVB-T. There's no (legal or otherwise) reason I can imagine why one would necessarily require the other. Perhaps you're still a bit dozy from your overnight slumbers and haven't had your morning coffee yet.

05-06-2009, 10:27	#9
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt All Freesat channels are unencrypted, and therefore Free to Air, and therefore do not require "FREESAT" membership. So what? The OP asked whether Freesat TVs also contained digital tuners, allowing him to pick up Freeview as well. The answer to his question is yes. Whether FTA satellite channels come under the Freesat umbrella or not is of no importance. The term "Freesat TV" is used for a television which has a satellite input connection, and provides the Freesat EPG. That's it. None of this purchasing external satellite decoder boxes malarkey which then need connecting to the TV (via HDMI or component if high definition is required). The TV has the tuner built in, and allows the user to watch FTA satellite channels including the high def ones. But all this is irrelevent. The user wasn't asking about Freesat - or Free To Air satellite channels. He was asking whether he will also get Freeview channels on a Freesat TV. The answer is yes. What you feel about Freesat matters not one jot. Why bother buying an extra box if the TV has a satellite tuner (and the EPG) built in? And as long as it can receive digital terrestrial channels also (which the OP has been informed they all can) means the OP is now happy. Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Also, perhaps someone would like to explain to me WHY a TV with a Freesat receiver would need a Freeview receiver? Because there are lots of channels available for free on Freeview that aren't available FTA on satellite. And there are lots of channels available for free on satellite that aren't available at all on Freeview. Because channels which are available on both are often broadcast at a higher bitrate - and therefore provide a better picture - via terrestrial digital television (i.e. ITV SD). Because not everybody has both a TV aerial and a satellite dish. Because bad weather can affect satellite reception but allow terrestrial reception - and vice versa.

05-06-2009, 10:43	#10
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	So what? You don't have to have a Freeview receiver in a Freesat TV. Just because the two illustrated do, doesn't make it a prerequisite. I acknowledge that you can buy a TV that suits your needs. The OPs original question is, as the thread is entitled, "Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners" (sic). Blimey, we were in a lot of trouble during the days of terrestrial only broadcasts. No one every got to watch anything. You've obviously missunderstood my question - perhaps I wasn't clear enough, and should have made a statement of it. None of your answers actually give me the fundamental answer to the reasoning behind the question.

05-06-2009, 10:48	#11
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt So what? You don't have to have a Freeview receiver in a Freesat TV. Just because the two illustrated do, doesn't make it a prerequisite. The OPs original question is, as the thread is entitled, "Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners" (sic). Okay. Just to draw a line on this - the answer to the OP's question is: "Yes, every Freesat TV currently available to buy in the UK at the present also contains a Freeview tuner. It is possible that one produced in the future will not have a Freeview tuner built into it, but it will probably prove financial suicide for a manufacturer to release such a product. Inclusion of a digital tuner will possibly add a couple of quid to the manufacturing costs of that television, and in an effort to save costs the manufacturer may decide to do away with such a component. But, as that will almost certainly limit the selling potential of the product, for somebody to do that would mean they were mentally unstable." Okay?

05-06-2009, 10:49	#12
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Willie Wontie Okay. Just to draw a line on this - the answer to the OP's question is: "Yes, every Freesat TV currently available to buy in the UK at the present also contains a Freeview tuner. It is possible that one produced in the future will not have a Freeview tuner built into it, but it will probably prove financial suicide for a manufacturer to release such a product. Inclusion of a digital tuner will possibly add a couple of quid to the manufacturing costs of that television, and in an effort to save costs the manufacturer may decide to do away with such a component. But, as that will almost certainly limit the selling potential of the product, for somebody to do that would mean they were mentally unstable." Okay? Why? Save a penny save a pound, my mum always said. Any marketing professional will tell you to aim your product at a specific target market. Rather than try to sell matchsticks to those with lighters. AND someone said (I'm not going to read back to find out who) I was wrong on absolutely every point, and accused me of drunkeness. That is blatently untrue. I would demand an apology, but I'm not that petty.

05-06-2009, 10:56	#13
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Why? Save a penny save a pound, my mum always said. Because you are immediately making the product unattractive to somebody who wants to watch digital terrestrial TV channels which aren't available for free on satellite. No Dave, no Virgin1, no Sky Sports News. Those are the three available for free on Freeview but not FTA on satellite at the moment. There may be more - both now and in the future. You are also producing a product which is far less stable than one which also contains a DVB-T tuner in it. More people have problems with satellite reception than they do with terrestrial reception. A satellite dish must be positioned with a clear line of sight to the satellite clusters - i.e. almost always on an outside wall. A TV aerial can be mounted indoors and still pick up crystal clear reception. So, when there are rain or snow storms going on, a lot of people lose satellite reception. If their TV didn't also provide terrestrial reception, they can't watch live TV. Why would any manufacturer provide a product with such an obvious shortfall?

05-06-2009, 11:02	#14
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Willie Wontie Because you are immediately making the product unattractive to somebody who wants to watch digital terrestrial TV channels which aren't available for free on satellite. No Dave, no Virgin1, no Sky Sports News. Those are the three available for free on Freeview but not FTA on satellite at the moment. There may be more - both now and in the future. You are also producing a product which is far less stable than one which also contains a DVB-T tuner in it. More people have problems with satellite reception than they do with terrestrial reception. A satellite dish must be positioned with a clear line of sight to the satellite clusters - i.e. almost always on an outside wall. A TV aerial can be mounted indoors and still pick up crystal clear reception. So, when there are rain or snow storms going on, a lot of people lose satellite reception. If their TV didn't also provide terrestrial reception, they can't watch live TV. Why would any manufacturer provide a product with such an obvious shortfall? Because it still manages to offer a wider range of channel viewing options than Freeview? Well, if we get rid of the ridiculous "Freesat" limitation, that is. Satellite FTA has much more to offer then either Freesat or Freeview. Yet FTA still has all the Freesat channels anyway. Using your approach, every TV would have a cable DVB-C(?) receiver in it too.

05-06-2009, 11:04	#15
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Why? Save a penny save a pound, my mum always said. Any marketing professional will tell you to aim your product at a specific target market. Rather than try to sell matchsticks to those with lighters. It would be commercial suicide to produce a Freesat TV without a Freeview tuner - they all have them - I doubt you can buy a TV without a Freeview tuner, certainly not of any decent make, and not for a number of years. Quote: AND someone said (I'm not going to read back to find out who) I was wrong on absolutely every point, and accused me of drunkeness. That is blatently untrue. I would demand an apology, but I'm not that petty. Presumably it referred to your assertion about Alba Freesat boxes?, which didn't bear even the faintest resemblance to the truth.

05-06-2009, 11:06	#16
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Because it still manages to offer a wider range of channel viewing options than Freeview? Well, if we get rid of the ridiculous "Freesat" limitation, that is. Satellite FTA has much more to offer then either Freesat or Freeview. Yet FTA still has all the Freesat channels anyway. I'm not arguing with you about that. I'm well aware that there are a lot more channels available via satellite than there are via TV aerial. In fact, I already mentioned that earlier in the thread. But it still doesn't disguise the fact that these channels which are free via TV aerial have to be paid for to watch on satellite - and also doesn't disguise the fact that satellite reception is often not as good as terrestrial reception. So whether more channels are available or not doesn't really help, if you want to watch Sky Sports News or if there is a blizzard going on outside your house. Cos you can't watch it via FTA satellite. Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Using your approach, every TV would have a cable DVB-C(?) receiver in it too. Why? Does any cable provider offer free channels as long as your TV is connected to their cable, regardless of whether you pay them anything or not? And does it cost peanuts to provide a cable connection and a cable tuner in a TV set - like it does for a terrestrial tuner?

05-06-2009, 11:12	#17
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Willie Wontie Why? Does any cable provider offer free channels as long as your TV is connected to their cable, regardless of whether you pay them anything or not? And does it cost peanuts to provide a cable connection and a cable tuner in a TV set - like it does for a terrestrial tuner? Cable TV is free to Virgin Media Cable landline telephone subscribers. It would great for VM if they didn't have to provide a cable STB to subscribers who don't pay for the service. It would put them on a financial par (subscriber wise) as terrestrial or satellite providers. Delivery is a cost borne by the service provider - so the actual connection itself is irrelevant within your argument. I can't think of any reason why a DVB-C digital tuner would be any cheaper or more expensive than any other digital tuner.

05-06-2009, 11:13	#18
Phil S Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,749	I'm the OP. Thanks for the answers, didn't want to start WW3. I'm happy now that these TVs contain both tuners. Where I am, Mux 2 (ITV etc) on Freeview is unreliable to say the least even with a proper high gain grouped aerial, so I thought a dish and Freesat TV would be the answer (I need a new TV anyway). However I don't want to lose the Freeview ability because I do watch SSN and Dave quite a lot. Thus my question about both tuners in these sets. Thanks again.

05-06-2009, 11:16	#19
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Cable TV is free to Virgin Media Cable landline telephone subscribers. It would great for VM if they didn't have to provide a cable STB to subscribers who don't pay for the service. It would put them on a financial par (subscriber wise) as terrestrial or satellite providers. Cable TV is NEVER free - you even pay for the PSB channels. It may be included in the basic phone package - but cancel your phone package and you lose your TV, including the PSB's. VM certainly don't want TV's with built-in cable tuners, just as Sky don't built-in Sky tuners - it's not a good idea for subscription TV, and in VM's case they don't even let you buy or own a box.

05-06-2009, 11:19	#20
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt Cable TV is free to Virgin Media Cable landline telephone subscribers. It would great for VM if they didn't have to provide a cable STB to subscribers who don't pay for the service. It would put them on a financial par (subscriber wise) as terrestrial or satellite providers. Then maybe Virgin ought to get in touch with one of the TV manufacturers and offer to do a deal with them. Build cable receivers into all your new tellies and Virgin fund half the development and production costs. It will save them having to provide cable boxes to anybody who does want to use Virgin's cable TV system, and it might bring in new customers who have bought one of these tellies and realise that they can suddenly start receiving digital cable television without any extra expense of they take out a phone and broadband deal with Virgin. And it should make the tellies more attractive to potential customers who already do have phone or broadband through Virgin, but don't want to shell out on a box to receive digital TV through. Rob, you may have hit on a partnership made in heaven... Edit: Although having just read Nigel's reply above, perhaps not.

05-06-2009, 11:20	#21
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Phil S I'm the OP. Thanks for the answers, didn't want to start WW3. Don't worry, you didn't. It was a rather unfortunate immature statement (not by you) that caused me to go a bit ballistic.

DS Forums

Have Freesat TVs also got Freeview Tuners

05-06-2009, 11:21	#22
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Rob, chill out mate. For a screen to be sold as a TV in the UK it needs to have a Freeview (DVB-T) tuner. So any current model TV on sale in the UK today is going to have a Freeview tuner built in regardless of any other additional types of tuner. The OP's post is a little confusing. He talks about Freesat - but actually these sets have Freesat HD. This is currently the only way to get a free-to-air HD service. So these two sets have regular Freeview tuners and are enhanced with the additional feature of Freesat HD. [edit: Started typing this, broke off to take a phone call, finished and posted but the conv has moved on and dust seems to have settled ]

05-06-2009, 11:23	#23
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Cable TV is NEVER free - you even pay for the PSB channels. It may be included in the basic phone package - but cancel your phone package and you lose your TV, including the PSB's. VM certainly don't want TV's with built-in cable tuners, just as Sky don't built-in Sky tuners - it's not a good idea for subscription TV, and in VM's case they don't even let you buy or own a box. Are you sure? I've done a bit of looking around recently, and DVB-C cards for computers are available - if thin on the ground. Although I'm not sure whether anyone is actually using one, so cannot ascertain whether or not FTA channels are actually encrypted. I have VM! Total cost for Cable TV STB, Telephone with Free UK national calls, discounted international and mobile calls is less than £11/mo (before my loyalty discount). Plus, of course, broadband internet now gives even greater real time broadcast and on demand TV channels and services.

05-06-2009, 11:27	#24
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost He talks about Freesat - but actually these sets have Freesat HD. This is currently the only way to get a free-to-air HD service. Or a Sky HD box without subscription. Or (as Rob uses) an external satellite receiver which allows him to tune in to (and record) ITV HD rather than accessing it via a red button, or by viewing it as an additional channel which doesn't allow recording to the Sky HD hard drive.

05-06-2009, 11:33	#25
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: The OP's post is a little confusing. He talks about Freesat - but actually these sets have Freesat HD. This is currently the only way to get a free-to-air HD service. And there we go, the same fundamental error you keep making. Freesat HD IS NOT the only way to get HD without subscription.