Will this affect BT Vision?

You_mo · 12-06-2009, 15:21

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...ue-online-free

Quote:

Channel 4 is to become the first UK broadcaster to put its back catalogue online completely free of charge – giving viewers the chance to watch every episode of homegrown shows such as Brass Eye, The Camomile Lawn and Father Ted without having to buy a DVD box set.

From July, more than 4,000 hours of the channel's archived content – about 10,000 programme titles – will be added to the 4oD catchup service.

They're offering for free what's in the TV packs!

red_g00ner · 12-06-2009, 15:57

The advatage BT has is that the 4oD stuff will not benefit from any QoS, so if you live in an area that has a congested exchange then you might have buffering issues.

Also the content that you download from 4oD will count towards any monthly usage quota you might have with ur ISP. Or if you use it a lot you might hit the fair usage policy argument.

VoD content from BT is excluded from these.

lowebb · 12-06-2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_g00ner

The advatage BT has is that the 4oD stuff will not benefit from any QoS, so if you live in an area that has a congested exchange then you might have buffering issues.

Also the content that you download from 4oD will count towards any monthly usage quota you might have with ur ISP. Or if you use it a lot you might hit the fair usage policy argument.

VoD content from BT is excluded from these.

Thats a pretty feeble arguement. If you are in a congested exchange you probably wont get the bandwidth for BT Vision anyway no matter what QoS they provide.

Though I think its safe to say BT Vision offers far more content than that C4 can offer free

red_g00ner · 12-06-2009, 17:04

The VoD stuff gets separated out at the exchange and goes on a different circuit. Think that is correct. The QoS is on your line from the exchange to your router. So if you are doing other downloads/p2p/ftp/email, etc. BTvision will always have enought bandwidth to work with.

Feeble or not it is still valid and fact.

jackgarnham · 12-06-2009, 17:06

4OD - Sat at your PC/Laptop.
BT Vision - Sat on your settee.

I know where I'd rather be watching TV programmes.

lowebb · 13-06-2009, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_g00ner

The VoD stuff gets separated out at the exchange and goes on a different circuit. Think that is correct. The QoS is on your line from the exchange to your router. So if you are doing other downloads/p2p/ftp/email, etc. BTvision will always have enought bandwidth to work with.

Feeble or not it is still valid and fact.

Sorry, didnt mean to be an a55 in my comment.

My understanding is QoS is enabled on the last mile, i.e. exchange -> house, in that it specific bandwidth fo VoD at the expense of the rest of YOUR traffic. I dont see anyway that BT could offer specialised routing within an exchange used by other BT Vision users. How would cope with every single user starting a VoD at the same time; its not scalable. Clearly I'm happy to be corrected......

Wizross · 13-06-2009, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackgarnham

4OD - Sat at your PC/Laptop.

Because there's no way of connecting a PC/laptop to a TV so you can sit on a sofa is there.....

jackgarnham · 13-06-2009, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizross

Because there's no way of connecting a PC/laptop to a TV so you can sit on a sofa is there.....

Of course there is, but are you honestly saying that you'd rather get your laptop out, plug in your HDMI/VGA/DVI lead that you have dangling round the back there (if you're lucky enough to have enough free inputs round the back of your TV), or fumble around at the back of your setup plugging it in, get out your AC adapter too, 'cause your battery probably won't last long enough, launch the 4OD application and watch a couple of episodes of ER...?

Gosh, I'd be ready for bed after all that. I like an easy life these days.

Oh yes, and it's probably higher compression, lower quality video that counts towards your monthly broadband usage allowance.

I'm not against the TV channels delivering their content over the 'net, it's their content to do what they like with afterall. It's useful to catch up on stuff when away from your living room, on WiFi somewhere or if the missus is watching Eastenders in the living room. There are just more elegant, convenient solutions to getting digital video content into the home, with a user friendly way of accessing said content.

breedalot · 13-06-2009, 08:58

Quote:

4 OD - Sat at your PC/Laptop.
BT Vision - Sat on your settee.

I know where I'd rather be watching TV programmes.

lol you must have both a lack of imagination and a very big laptop!

i use a htpc and tunnerfreeMCE works a treat i also get bbchd and can use extenders its great but i am sure i have seen laptops that can fit on sofas!!!

Wizross · 13-06-2009, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by breedalot

lol you must have both a lack of imagination and a very big laptop!

i use a htpc and tunnerfreeMCE works a treat i also get bbchd and can use extenders its great but i am sure i have seen laptops that can fit on sofas!!!

That's pretty much where I was going.... the media centre PC right by the TV.

Chopper3 · 13-06-2009, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowebb

Sorry, didnt mean to be an a55 in my comment.

My understanding is QoS is enabled on the last mile, i.e. exchange -> house, in that it specific bandwidth fo VoD at the expense of the rest of YOUR traffic. I dont see anyway that BT could offer specialised routing within an exchange used by other BT Vision users. How would cope with every single user starting a VoD at the same time; its not scalable. Clearly I'm happy to be corrected......

That's not correct, the QoS session is much deeper than that and, once setup, ensures that the allocated bandwidth is present from the VOD servers to the HomeHub. In the event of congestion it is the 'best efforts' capacity that becomes limited, not the Qos'ed video stream.

jackgarnham · 13-06-2009, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by breedalot

lol you must have both a lack of imagination and a very big laptop!

i use a htpc and tunnerfreeMCE works a treat i also get bbchd and can use extenders its great but i am sure i have seen laptops that can fit on sofas!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizross

That's pretty much where I was going.... the media centre PC right by the TV.

Excellent, believe me, if I could afford such a setup I would have something similar. Still, your average household will have one desktop or laptop and some sort of STB - and their functions will probably remain seperate - this is the market BT Vision is targeting.

lowebb · 14-06-2009, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper3

That's not correct, the QoS session is much deeper than that and, once setup, ensures that the allocated bandwidth is present from the VOD servers to the HomeHub. In the event of congestion it is the 'best efforts' capacity that becomes limited, not the Qos'ed video stream.

I'm not going to argue the semantics of this because I simply dont know BT's QoS shaping policies. But IMO I think thats wrong, simply because its ok to say the Best Effort traffic becomes limited, but there will come a point where absolutely no more users can get the 2M QoS reservation, do they deny the user attempting at that point from receiving it? I doubt it.

I'd actually like to someone in the know to fully detail their QoS mechanism and how (and where) they police it

Ayce · 14-06-2009, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by You_mo

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...ue-online-free

They're offering for free what's in the TV packs!

I'd say not because of contracutal issues plus its 4oD via BTV not 4oD which ch4 have total control off.

Re the PC thing - Having been in the CarPC scene for so long ( http://www.letscommuicate.co.uk/carpc/ ) I can tell you there are cheap boards out there. I'm using an Atom ( http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12231 ) which costs next to nothing.... in fact in my whole media setup that was the most expensive bit as I stuck a basic drive in etc etc. It works spot on for Iplayer and more and runs MCE with out a problem. There are now better boards than this and Nvidia have some thing specatular on the way ( not expensive mind you ) and while they are not deisgned to run the latest and greatest 3D games they do what 90% of people need.... have a look

Terran

PS There some free low powered OS's out there too.... as long as you can run flash your sorted.

clpxm39 · 22-06-2009, 10:04

I love the irony that your "letscommunicate" link does not communicate because you spelt it wrong

betsvigi9 · 22-06-2009, 11:25

It isn't just about congestion though. Surely it is also about what monthly allowance people have. BT Vision doesn't count towards your monthly allowance, but iPlayer and the likes do.

Chopper3 · 04-07-2009, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowebb

I'm not going to argue the semantics of this because I simply dont know BT's QoS shaping policies. But IMO I think thats wrong, simply because its ok to say the Best Effort traffic becomes limited, but there will come a point where absolutely no more users can get the 2M QoS reservation, do they deny the user attempting at that point from receiving it? I doubt it.

I'd actually like to someone in the know to fully detail their QoS mechanism and how (and where) they police it

It's a 1.6Mbps QoS session, not 2, the 'no lower than 2' requirement is to ensure that other small amounts of traffic can get down the line too. And you're right to an extent that there's a limit to the number of users that could have a session but that's extremely unlikely - however if that did happen then the user would simply get an error on play-attempt. As for anyone detailing the mechanism - well why would anyone do that? and how do you mean police?

12-06-2009, 15:21	#1
You_mo Guest Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,767	Will this affect BT Vision? http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...ue-online-free Quote: Channel 4 is to become the first UK broadcaster to put its back catalogue online completely free of charge – giving viewers the chance to watch every episode of homegrown shows such as Brass Eye, The Camomile Lawn and Father Ted without having to buy a DVD box set. From July, more than 4,000 hours of the channel's archived content – about 10,000 programme titles – will be added to the 4oD catchup service. They're offering for free what's in the TV packs!

12-06-2009, 15:57	#2
red_g00ner Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 790	The advatage BT has is that the 4oD stuff will not benefit from any QoS, so if you live in an area that has a congested exchange then you might have buffering issues. Also the content that you download from 4oD will count towards any monthly usage quota you might have with ur ISP. Or if you use it a lot you might hit the fair usage policy argument. VoD content from BT is excluded from these.

12-06-2009, 16:27	#3
lowebb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 451	Quote: Originally Posted by red_g00ner The advatage BT has is that the 4oD stuff will not benefit from any QoS, so if you live in an area that has a congested exchange then you might have buffering issues. Also the content that you download from 4oD will count towards any monthly usage quota you might have with ur ISP. Or if you use it a lot you might hit the fair usage policy argument. VoD content from BT is excluded from these. Thats a pretty feeble arguement. If you are in a congested exchange you probably wont get the bandwidth for BT Vision anyway no matter what QoS they provide. Though I think its safe to say BT Vision offers far more content than that C4 can offer free

12-06-2009, 17:04	#4
red_g00ner Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 790	The VoD stuff gets separated out at the exchange and goes on a different circuit. Think that is correct. The QoS is on your line from the exchange to your router. So if you are doing other downloads/p2p/ftp/email, etc. BTvision will always have enought bandwidth to work with. Feeble or not it is still valid and fact.

12-06-2009, 17:06	#5
jackgarnham Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: West Yorks Posts: 169	4OD - Sat at your PC/Laptop. BT Vision - Sat on your settee. I know where I'd rather be watching TV programmes.

13-06-2009, 01:04	#6
lowebb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 451	Quote: Originally Posted by red_g00ner The VoD stuff gets separated out at the exchange and goes on a different circuit. Think that is correct. The QoS is on your line from the exchange to your router. So if you are doing other downloads/p2p/ftp/email, etc. BTvision will always have enought bandwidth to work with. Feeble or not it is still valid and fact. Sorry, didnt mean to be an a55 in my comment. My understanding is QoS is enabled on the last mile, i.e. exchange -> house, in that it specific bandwidth fo VoD at the expense of the rest of YOUR traffic. I dont see anyway that BT could offer specialised routing within an exchange used by other BT Vision users. How would cope with every single user starting a VoD at the same time; its not scalable. Clearly I'm happy to be corrected......

13-06-2009, 01:05	#7
Wizross Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,033	Quote: Originally Posted by jackgarnham 4OD - Sat at your PC/Laptop. Because there's no way of connecting a PC/laptop to a TV so you can sit on a sofa is there.....

13-06-2009, 08:15	#8
jackgarnham Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: West Yorks Posts: 169	Quote: Originally Posted by Wizross Because there's no way of connecting a PC/laptop to a TV so you can sit on a sofa is there..... Of course there is, but are you honestly saying that you'd rather get your laptop out, plug in your HDMI/VGA/DVI lead that you have dangling round the back there (if you're lucky enough to have enough free inputs round the back of your TV), or fumble around at the back of your setup plugging it in, get out your AC adapter too, 'cause your battery probably won't last long enough, launch the 4OD application and watch a couple of episodes of ER...? Gosh, I'd be ready for bed after all that. I like an easy life these days. Oh yes, and it's probably higher compression, lower quality video that counts towards your monthly broadband usage allowance. I'm not against the TV channels delivering their content over the 'net, it's their content to do what they like with afterall. It's useful to catch up on stuff when away from your living room, on WiFi somewhere or if the missus is watching Eastenders in the living room. There are just more elegant, convenient solutions to getting digital video content into the home, with a user friendly way of accessing said content.

13-06-2009, 08:58	#9
breedalot Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 21	Quote: 4 OD - Sat at your PC/Laptop. BT Vision - Sat on your settee. I know where I'd rather be watching TV programmes. lol you must have both a lack of imagination and a very big laptop! i use a htpc and tunnerfreeMCE works a treat i also get bbchd and can use extenders its great but i am sure i have seen laptops that can fit on sofas!!!

13-06-2009, 10:42	#10
Wizross Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,033	Quote: Originally Posted by breedalot lol you must have both a lack of imagination and a very big laptop! i use a htpc and tunnerfreeMCE works a treat i also get bbchd and can use extenders its great but i am sure i have seen laptops that can fit on sofas!!! That's pretty much where I was going.... the media centre PC right by the TV.

13-06-2009, 13:30	#11
Chopper3 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10	Quote: Originally Posted by lowebb Sorry, didnt mean to be an a55 in my comment. My understanding is QoS is enabled on the last mile, i.e. exchange -> house, in that it specific bandwidth fo VoD at the expense of the rest of YOUR traffic. I dont see anyway that BT could offer specialised routing within an exchange used by other BT Vision users. How would cope with every single user starting a VoD at the same time; its not scalable. Clearly I'm happy to be corrected...... That's not correct, the QoS session is much deeper than that and, once setup, ensures that the allocated bandwidth is present from the VOD servers to the HomeHub. In the event of congestion it is the 'best efforts' capacity that becomes limited, not the Qos'ed video stream.

13-06-2009, 15:01	#12
jackgarnham Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: West Yorks Posts: 169	Quote: Originally Posted by breedalot lol you must have both a lack of imagination and a very big laptop! i use a htpc and tunnerfreeMCE works a treat i also get bbchd and can use extenders its great but i am sure i have seen laptops that can fit on sofas!!! Quote: Originally Posted by Wizross That's pretty much where I was going.... the media centre PC right by the TV. Excellent, believe me, if I could afford such a setup I would have something similar. Still, your average household will have one desktop or laptop and some sort of STB - and their functions will probably remain seperate - this is the market BT Vision is targeting.

14-06-2009, 01:55	#13
lowebb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 451	Quote: Originally Posted by Chopper3 That's not correct, the QoS session is much deeper than that and, once setup, ensures that the allocated bandwidth is present from the VOD servers to the HomeHub. In the event of congestion it is the 'best efforts' capacity that becomes limited, not the Qos'ed video stream. I'm not going to argue the semantics of this because I simply dont know BT's QoS shaping policies. But IMO I think thats wrong, simply because its ok to say the Best Effort traffic becomes limited, but there will come a point where absolutely no more users can get the 2M QoS reservation, do they deny the user attempting at that point from receiving it? I doubt it. I'd actually like to someone in the know to fully detail their QoS mechanism and how (and where) they police it

14-06-2009, 08:55	#14
Ayce Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Morecambe, Lancs, UK Posts: 1,525	Quote: Originally Posted by You_mo http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...ue-online-free They're offering for free what's in the TV packs! I'd say not because of contracutal issues plus its 4oD via BTV not 4oD which ch4 have total control off. Re the PC thing - Having been in the CarPC scene for so long ( http://www.letscommuicate.co.uk/carpc/ ) I can tell you there are cheap boards out there. I'm using an Atom ( http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12231 ) which costs next to nothing.... in fact in my whole media setup that was the most expensive bit as I stuck a basic drive in etc etc. It works spot on for Iplayer and more and runs MCE with out a problem. There are now better boards than this and Nvidia have some thing specatular on the way ( not expensive mind you ) and while they are not deisgned to run the latest and greatest 3D games they do what 90% of people need.... have a look Terran PS There some free low powered OS's out there too.... as long as you can run flash your sorted.

22-06-2009, 10:04	#15
clpxm39 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 55	I love the irony that your "letscommunicate" link does not communicate because you spelt it wrong

22-06-2009, 11:25	#16
betsvigi9 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 389	It isn't just about congestion though. Surely it is also about what monthly allowance people have. BT Vision doesn't count towards your monthly allowance, but iPlayer and the likes do.

04-07-2009, 10:14	#17
Chopper3 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10	Quote: Originally Posted by lowebb I'm not going to argue the semantics of this because I simply dont know BT's QoS shaping policies. But IMO I think thats wrong, simply because its ok to say the Best Effort traffic becomes limited, but there will come a point where absolutely no more users can get the 2M QoS reservation, do they deny the user attempting at that point from receiving it? I doubt it. I'd actually like to someone in the know to fully detail their QoS mechanism and how (and where) they police it It's a 1.6Mbps QoS session, not 2, the 'no lower than 2' requirement is to ensure that other small amounts of traffic can get down the line too. And you're right to an extent that there's a limit to the number of users that could have a session but that's extremely unlikely - however if that did happen then the user would simply get an error on play-attempt. As for anyone detailing the mechanism - well why would anyone do that? and how do you mean police?

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Will this affect BT Vision?