i hate oliver, because i hate musicals, period.

That is a good point, I am the same - Oliver makes me cringe, the feeble goody goody. I like anything with artful dodger input.

Ahem - classically trained musician here!

*I'm in the mood for dancing*

Hmm, can't chose one.

Reviewing the Situation
Boy for Sale
Who will buy
The reprise of it's a fine life

Are all rather special.

Oom pah pah, I'd Do Anything and As Long As He Needs Me

ahh, I just can't resist to post this

This is my man singing consider yourself the coolest most rockin' Artful Dodger EVER!!!!!

forget about Davy Jones or Phil Collins....

Where is love

I would have to say Oom Pah Pah, Reviewing The Situation and in last place, Pick A Pocket or Two. I really enjoyed singing them at school and always liked playing Oom Pah Pah on the piano. I also didn't mind 'Who Will Buy' and think the scene in the film is spectacular.

My favourite too. Best musical ever!

What are you doing on a music forum then?

do i have to like musicals to like music generally?

Yes. Frankly.

wrong. i love films, and i love music. i love the music from some films. there is one genre of film i do not like however, and that is musicals. i don't like the singing, or the dancing, or the whole overplayed "stage school" type theatrics. i don't like cutesy kids warbling cheesy numbers. i absolutely love tim burton's films, but i couldn't watch "sweeney todd" because the singing in it annoyed me.

also, to say i shouldn't be in the music forum because i don't like musicals, is just preposterous

i am just going to go and listen to some kings of leon whilst you reflect on how ridiculous your posts have been

I'm sorry but to simply write-off a whole genre like you just did, especially one as infinitely diverse as the musical, is just ignorant.

You'd be happy to watch a music video of Kings of Leon miming to one of their songs, yes? What's the difference I ask?

I'm sure with enough trawling of the internet I could link Kings of Leon with the genre of the musical especially since so many (arguably all) MTV videos are derivative in some way of the work done from the 1930s-70s in film musicals. You should have more respect for these artists if you really love music. They built the foundations of the industry in which Kings of Leon thrive.

I don't know what music your into but a surprising number of popular songs originally came from musicals, some shows long since forgotten, and no doubt many of the artists you admire are influenced and inspired by musicals. In any case western pop music is almost entirely derivative of the music from musical theatre in the early part of the 20th century since that's one of the main ways the hits were presented to the masses before recording.

If you don't like over-acting, stage-school etc. that's fine, not all musicals feature this but in any case this was a thread about what your favourite songs from Oliver were. You don't even have to sit through the film to enjoy the music. I got to know the songs from the original cast recording. I suggest you do the same before posting again.

In defence or trevalyan, he’s perfectly entitled to his opinion to like or dislike any medium. And I would agree with him, to some degree.

I love musicals. I’ve done so many of them; I love performing; directing; I’m even writing some of my own (hoping to produce them some day). But for me, musicals don’t quite work as films. Obviously, there are some great musicals which have been made into films, and no one can deny that the music is still good.

But generally, when characters on my TV screen suddenly start singing, it does hinder the suspension of disbelief for me. It seems out of place, unless the film is an outrageous comedy and doesn’t take itself at all seriously. (South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut being my favourite screen musical, despite the lack of songs.)

Musical theatre is a medium of its own. In a way, people go for the singing and dancing while the plot only serves to string these performances together and give it a bit of emotional resonance. When we go to the theatre, what we are watching is clearly not real and never could be real, and everything about it is clearly not really happening. But we are asked to suspend our disbelief of all this, and in return we get something unique to the stage: a live spectacle with real live actors that is arguably much more immediate, engaging and exciting than a film could ever be.

But this only translates to film so far because film is a completely different medium with its own rules. Most modern viewers generally expect a film to follow the rules of real life. Characters suddenly bursting into song is just about as plausible as characters suddenly discovering they can fly, with no explanation.

So while I do love musicals, I can completely sympathise with those who do not — especially people who haven’t seen many live shows and whose opinion of musicals is mainly based on films.

Ironically though, almost all films are musical. All films actually combine two completely different media: flim and music. The soundtrack plays a massive role in telling the story of almost every successful film: arguably the biggest role. Remove the soundtrack and it would almost certainly be terrible.

So, suspension of disbelief is all a matter of what we’re accustomed to. While modern cinema audiences may not be able to suspend their disbelief sufficiently to put up with the characters singing, we are all well-trained to do it with the soundtrack. If you had a viewer who wasn’t used to seeing films with sountracks — hearing an orchestra start playing in the middle of a film would surely ruin the film for them and be seen as incredibly cheesy!

I never really got to grips with the post-50s 'epic' musicals, as they always seemed so bloated and blowsy. But Oliver! represents the nadir for me due to 'Food Glorious Food' - not only as that 'f' word is one that IMO just does not belong in a song, but also due to the association it evokes with that Godawful McCain oven chips ad.

give up will you?

i don't enjoy musicals. that doesn't mean i don't like music FFS!

that doesn't mean i shouldn't be in the music forum!

that doesn't mean i don't appreciate the standalone songs, even though i don't like them, and have never stated this anyway?

i don't like romantic comedies either, but that doesn't mean i don't like films.

i don't like bananas, that doesn't mean i don't like fruit.

i don't like fiat cars, that doesn't mean i don't like cars.

i don't like the musical, as a film genre or theatrical entertainment

heavens above, this is hard work

i did say this to be fair. there are some film scores that i have bought, i love them that much. john williams' scores are amongst the greatest ever. i love scores by howard shore, james horner etc

i cannot grasp how hard it is for the poster above to understand that i do not enjoy musicals, i.e. films or theatre productions where the characters suddenly break into song and dance routines, without them asserting that i am somehow ignorant of music, that i don't like music, and that i shouldn't be in a music forum.

consider yourself.

Not until you listen to the all the songs in Oliver and tell us which one was you favourite (least hated)

but even if i did, it still isn't going to change the fact that i don't like musicals, which is all i have asserted all along?

it is like you trying to assert that i can't possibly like or appreciate dogs because i don't like dog shows?

i don't understand what you are trying to prove?

I'd still be interested to find out what a person who hates musicals least hated song from Oliver is. Come on, pick a song.

Bottom line: I think love music - hate musicals is a hypocritical viewpoint.

I also think that people who hate musicals are probably
A: blokes
B: emotionally stunted

There, I said it!

i have no affinity for any of the songs from oliver in particular, so they are all equally disliked by me

there is nothing whatsoever hypocritical about liking music, but disliking the genre of musical as a production, or a film

if you dislike horror films, does that mean you dislike all films, and are therefore unqualified to comment on films in general?

i think people who are simply unable to accept that somebody who has an opinion different to them, and instead insists on this pointless exercise of chipping away at them to try and get them to name a song they hate least, when i have already said i dislike the production, ergo i dislike the songs in it, just to try and prove their point, before moving into personal insults are probably

a) morons
b) rude and pig-headed morons

there, i replied. now just leave it, please!

You would certainly be less qualified to comment on films in general and obviously horror in particular yes. Unless you've sat through a lot of horror despite your dislike. Of course you'll have an opinion either way.

You have your opinion, I have mine, I don't have a problem with that and if you write something I disagree with I'll write back that's how a forum works, I know I can't change your mind.

Everything I've written is actually what I think, not personal insults. Are you an emotionally stunted bloke? I don't know because I don't know you.

I'll admit that the way musicals get slagged off, by people who simply can't suspend their disbelief at characters breaking into song, really gets under my skin.

However, you are the one who came on an Oliver thread specifically to say that you hate (not dislike, or I'm not into) Oliver and all musicals so what did you expect? Why did you even click on this thread?

Anyway, what Grand Dizzy wrote above is a far better summation of the issues then anything I could write. Kudos.