[hiatus]

Originally Posted by daveyfs

It is, however, on those frequencies post-DSO, and it does seem that DTT is going further than analogue.

The other possibility, also on those frequencies, is Tenby, though that most probably is too far away, albeit probably better disposed to Milford in terms of direction.

I wonder if Huntshaw is restricted in this general direction to avoid interference with Tenby, as it is just across the Bristol Channel.

[daveyfs]

Originally Posted by hiatus

I wonder if Huntshaw is restricted in this general direction to avoid interference with Tenby, as it is just across the Bristol Channel.

Quite possible. It comes in fine here on all MUXes, but I am a good 50 miles east of you as the crow flies.

I do still wonder whether its H'west is affecting you - its 100w erp post-DSO, which is a fair amount for a DTT relay.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look as if you'd be able to get the Caradon Hill COM MUXes either, as the Greenhill relay over the water from you, west of Hundleton, uses those frequencies.

I'm presuming you can get them ok from Preseli though?

[hiatus]

Originally Posted by daveyfs

Quite possible. It comes in fine here on all MUXes, but I am a good 50 miles east of you as the crow flies.

I do still wonder whether its H'west is affecting you - its 100w erp post-DSO, which is a fair amount for a DTT relay.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look as if you'd be able to get the Caradon Hill COM MUXes either, as the Greenhill relay over the water from you, west of Hundleton, uses those frequencies.

I'm presuming you can get them ok from Preseli though?

Greenhill is blocking the Caradon Hill COM muxes. All muxes are strong from Preseli, with Arquiva B obviously being a bit weaker than the rest.

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by hiatus

Greenhill is blocking the Caradon Hill COM muxes. All muxes are strong from Preseli, with Arquiva B obviously being a bit weaker than the rest.

I would suspect Tenby as its in the general direction of Huntshaw Cross and the other consideration is that Huntshaw Com Muxes are 3dB down on the PSB muxes and is likely to have a more restricted radiation pattern. But Luza, near Ilfracombe is getting all six. The PSB muxes inherited the old analogue frequencies which generally had omnidirectional HRPs and the PSBs will want to replicate that coverage whereas the COM muxes depend on finding a set of available channels and accepting the local restrictions.

[luza]

BBC local radio and television this morning carried reports of serious interference from Wales in North Devon, affecting thousands. Unfortunately, there was almost no factual explanation of the source of the problem! Even the BBC reported Wenvoe as the probable souce, when it is mainly Carmel! Our MP seemed reasonably well-informed. Freeview were not available (!) but recommended re-tuning and checking equipment

Carmel transmits horizonally polarised on high power on
all three fequencies used by the Ilfracombe relay, vertically
polarised, on low power (56watts). Tidal fading across the Bristol Channel causes variable, but significant interference.
Next April Mendip will likewise be transmitting high power signals on Ilfracombe frequencies, which may have a similar effect in some locations.

Of course, re-allocation of channels is out of the question.
It would be far too simple and logical a solution... There are
channels not used by high-power transmitters which could be usesd locally for low-power relays with far less risk of
interference.

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by luza

BBC local radio and television this morning carried reports of serious interference from Wales in North Devon, affecting thousands. Unfortunately, there was almost no factual explanation of the source of the problem! Even the BBC reported Wenvoe as the probable souce, when it is mainly Carmel! Our MP seemed reasonably well-informed. Freeview were not available (!) but recommended re-tuning and checking equipment

Carmel transmits horizonally polarised on high power on
all three fequencies used by the Ilfracombe relay, vertically
polarised, on low power (56watts). Tidal fading across the Bristol Channel causes variable, but significant interference.
Next April Mendip will likewise be transmitting high power signals on Ilfracombe frequencies, which may have a similar effect in some locations.

Of course, re-allocation of channels is out of the question.
It would be far too simple and logical a solution... There are
channels not used by high-power transmitters which could be usesd locally for low-power relays with far less risk of
interference.

Time to start a campaign? Ofcom are to blame for this as the number of frequencies usable for DTT after DSO has been substantially reduced. It is not acceptable that public service television, paid for by the licence fee, has insufficient spectrum inputs to discharge its universal service obligation. Carmel is 20kW and will inevitably override Ilfracombe across the Bristol Channel especially as polarisation inversion is likely to occur. Local people should write to the press, their MPs, BBC, DUK, Ofcom and ask the BBC to get the frequencies changed at Ilfracombe.

[luza]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

... Carmel is 20kW and will inevitably override Ilfracombe across the Bristol Channel ... . ... get the frequencies changed at Ilfracombe.

Would it be possible to squeeze BBC1 and ITV1 onto
high-power Wenvoe next Spring? That would solve the problem for all but a very few. See my postung under "Wales".

[mrdtv]

http://help.digitaluk.co.uk/display/....aspx?aid=7284

[N.Dean]

Originally Posted by luza

Would it be possible to squeeze BBC1 and ITV1 onto
high-power Wenvoe next Spring? That would solve the problem for all but a very few. See my postung under "Wales".

If I recall correctly, in the days of 405-line VHF TV, Wenvoe carried both BBC 1 West and BBC Wales.

[Servicetech 1]

Originally Posted by N.Dean

If I recall correctly, in the days of 405-line VHF TV, Wenvoe carried both BBC 1 West and BBC Wales.

Correct! Also St Hilary,carried both HTV services,English on CH B10 and Welsh on CH B7,so you could say the precedent had already been set,for dual region transmission,from one site.

[Ray Cathode]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

http://help.digitaluk.co.uk/display/....aspx?aid=7284

And shows they totally understand the problem. I suspect a few hundred Ilfracombe viewers will not be able to overturn the master switchover plan.

[luza]

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

And shows they totally understand the problem. I suspect a few hundred Ilfracombe viewers will not be able to overturn the master switchover plan.

I would not be surprised, were you proved right...

I suspect there are many more than "a few hundred".
Wenvoe is an option.
Ilfracombe on eg ch 39,40,51 tomorrow would be feasible (sic!)
Carmel null south might help, but would affect viewers in Wales as well, so is less attractive.
A SFN with Huntshaw would probably work, but involve more tech investment and some STBs might shiver.

So: I would not be surprised, were you proved right...

[reslfj]

Originally Posted by luza

Wenvoe is an option.

Don't think so. High power transmitteres must be coordinated with France and maybe ROI. Not many unused channels in Wales.

Originally Posted by luza

Ilfracombe on eg ch 39,40,51 tomorrow would be feasible (sic!)

Don't think so. Channel 39,40 will be used - indirectly - as replacement for channel 61,62 to clear the 800 MHz band. Huntshaw Cross will itself need a replacement channel for channel 62 and Mendip for channel 61.

Until the large and larger TX sites have their new channels allocated - channel 39-40 is unlikely to be used.

Channel 51 is one of the channels that is both in the B and C/D aerial group - and it will be used to clear the 800 MHz band.

A SFN with Huntshaw would probably work, but involve more tech investment and some STBs might shiver.

A SFN will work and most STB's will have no problems - even replacing a few hundred STB's @ £15-20 is maybe £ 2,000-3,000 - not a huge sum. It should also enable the COM muxes in Iffracome (from Carmel).

Lars

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by luza

I would not be surprised, were you proved right...

I suspect there are many more than "a few hundred".
Wenvoe is an option.
Ilfracombe on eg ch 39,40,51 tomorrow would be feasible (sic!)
Carmel null south might help, but would affect viewers in Wales as well, so is less attractive.
A SFN with Huntshaw would probably work, but involve more tech investment and some STBs might shiver.

So: I would not be surprised, were you proved right...

I think affected viewers should get up a petition on the Internet, write to Sir Michael Lyon, Chairman of the BBC Trust setting out the problem. Licence fee payers, voters, citizens and consumers (the usual Ofcom 1984 Quango nonsensespeak) are entitled to an equitable digital replacement for low-cost analogue terrestrial relay of their BBC and other PSB services. There are various technical solutions to this problem which can be evaluated in terms of cost and time. Viewers should also get the horrid Daily Mail on the case: this administration has a pathological fear of the Mail. According to the various reports several thousand people may be affected by this problem: use of the relay is probably very high because of the terrain shielding viewers from access to Caradon and Huntshaw Cross. This Government buckles under tabloid pressure.

[luza]

Originally Posted by reslfj

Don't think so. High power transmitteres must be coordinated with France and maybe ROI. Not many unused channels in Wales.

Don't think so. Channel 39,40 will be used - indirectly - as replacement for channel 61,62 to clear the 800 MHz band. Huntshaw Cross will itself need a replacement channel for channel 62 and Mendip for channel 61.

Until the large and larger TX sites have their new channels allocated - channel 39-40 is unlikely to be used.

Channel 51 is one of the channels that is both in the B and C/D aerial group - and it will be used to clear the 800 MHz band.

A SFN will work and most STB's will have no problems - even replacing a few hundred STB's @ £15-20 is maybe £ 2,000-3,000 - not a huge sum. It should also enable the COM muxes in Iffracome (from Carmel). Lars

Lars, you ain´t very encouraging :-) "Tomorrow" meant quick-fix for now while they sort out a longer term solution
for the Ilfracombe catchment area. Let them sell of the 800Mhz band, but keep at least some of the mid-band for the "Carmel-Ilfracombe syndrome" to be expected elsewhere, even where there are no tides, as dso progresses. (Realtime : D3&4 agonised and just sank, BBC-A and-B still boyant.) Do we know for sure that Wenvoe is nulling south? And west? Where will it direct its
warming 100kW and 50kW? I have a list which gives ch51 or ch30 as licenced to Wenvoe for an additonal mux. We would settle for a little less than 50kw for our SW regional coverage from Wenvoe :-) And Caradon? And Mendip? If nulled south, what about UK viewers who would be affected before the signal crossed the English Channel? Worrying... Lars, if you have influence or an interest:
plug the SFN option for us if other options are so forlorn!

Maybe we are at the dawn of the creation of a new minority : the great dtt-unwashed...

[luza]

An interesting precedent has come to light : -

Port St Mary on the Isle of Man is authorised to increase transmitting power so as to offset interference coming across water from the Republic of Ireland.

This is a precedent with immediate relevance to the co-channel interference at Ilfracombe coming across water
from Carmel in Wales.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by luza

An interesting precedent has come to light : -

Port St Mary on the Isle of Man is authorised to increase transmitting power so as to offset interference coming across water from the Republic of Ireland.

Another increase, or the one that's been planned for a long time and comes into operation before the end of this year ?

PSM started on 500 watts, and that increases to 2kW once Winter Hill has DSO'd. Are you saying another directive has been issued ?

[luza]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Another increase, or the one that's been planned for a long time and comes into operation before the end of this year ?

PSM started on 500 watts, and that increases to 2kW once Winter Hill has DSO'd. Are you saying another directive has been issued ?

I assume this is the same event. See details and discussion on the "Wales/Cymru" page. This could be a powerful precedent for Ilfracombe - and maybe for other swamped relays.

[joshua_welby]

Has anyone been following today's switchover at the Huntshaw Cross Transmitter?

Do not forget to Retune your TV/box today due to changes to the Huntshaw Cross Transmitter

See here for details http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051980

[a516]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

Has anyone been following today's switchover at the Huntshaw Cross Transmitter?

Do not forget to Retune your TV/box today due to changes to the Huntshaw Cross Transmitter

See here for details http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051980

Wow, an old thread...

As the article states, a retune was only needed if you couldn't get all the commercial channels from Huntshaw Cross. Most people in the area could actually get a signal, even if at lower quality. As you get further away from Huntshaw Cross, areas where fringe reception would be expected, households are actually quite likely to be receiving from Caradon Hill (to the S and SW) or a relay or a welsh transmitter (to the N & E). W and NW of course is in the sea!

[joshua_welby]

I used to live in Cardiff, which is in Wales and I used to pick up the Huntshaw Cross Transmitter as the signals went across the sea I think, it was before Freeview even existed,
it was in Analogue, I had all the channels crystal clear, not sure if it is the same now Post-DSO

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

I used to live in Cardiff, which is in Wales and I used to pick up the Huntshaw Cross Transmitter as the signals went across the sea I think, it was before Freeview even existed,
it was in Analogue, I had all the channels crystal clear, not sure if it is the same now Post-DSO

That would have been Mendip (probably),

[joshua_welby]

Originally Posted by Mark C

That would have been Mendip (probably),

No, I was watching Westcountry Tonight from the Plymouth Studios - the Westcountry East Region

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

No, I was watching Westcountry Tonight from the Plymouth Studios - the Westcountry East Region

WC East. Stockland Hill then ? H Cross is screened off in Cardiff by the hill that Wenvoe sits upon.

[Andy Herne]

Westcountry east definately Stockland Hill.

There's been known reception of Stockland across the part of the Vale coastline from Cardiff to Llantwit Major as well as high ground further inland. This was an area of extreme fringe reception in the analogue days and was always regularly affected by weather conditions so was not reliable. Another problem was co-channel interference from Mynydd Machen so aerial set ups had to work hard to obtain a useable signal.

Huntshaw Cross is shielded by the Exmoor Hills so there's heavy attenuation in the direction of Cardiff.