[Matterhorn]

ok, over the last couple of days I have been having email conversations with a couple of guys in BT's exec team about the recent Setanta demise and knock on effects.

1/ BTV contract - as has been posted on here before, the contract for BTV has a specific clause in it allowing the contract to be terminated if anything happens that causes 'material disadvantage' to the customer. BT admit that the loss of Setanta would fall into this area but refuse to allow contracts to be terminated because it was 'outwith their control'.

2/ ESPN - when ESPN starts broadcasting EPL games it is 'highly unlikely' that they will come 'free' as part of any BTV value pack. (so it won't be the same as Setanta)



I'm not giving any opinion or making judgement and I appreciate that this could be something or nothing. I am simply reporting what I was told. Take it for what you will.

[techsmedders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matterhorn

ok, over the last couple of days I have been having email conversations with a couple of guys in BT's exec team about the recent Setanta demise and knock on effects.

1/ BTV contract - as has been posted on here before, the contract for BTV has a specific clause in it allowing the contract to be terminated if anything happens that causes 'material disadvantage' to the customer. BT admit that the loss of Setanta would fall into this area but refuse to allow contracts to be terminated because it was 'outwith their control'.

2/ ESPN - when ESPN starts broadcasting EPL games it is 'highly unlikely' that they will come 'free' as part of any BTV value pack. (so it won't be the same as Setanta)



I'm not giving any opinion or making judgement and I appreciate that this could be something or nothing. I am simply reporting what I was told. Take it for what you will.

As soon as Setanta went bust I got straight on the phone to BTV and was told the same thing - that as it was out of their control the contract still exists. However, I cannot see anywhere where to contract states a difference between material loss from BTV and another provider (eg Setanta). But remember, especially if you have the sport pack, you have also lost the Setanta Replay which is most definately material loss (and this was confirmed to me on the phone by BTV, and therefore should void any contract).

However, I am still subscribed awaiting the outcome of what happens with respect to ESPN and EPL being free. If they want me to pay extra for it, I no longer feel that BTV no longer offers me a service I feel is any value for money and I will be on the phone to cancel.

Considering that many BTV subscribers will have been 'swung' onto the idea of getting BTV as they got Setanta with EPL, etc... I have a feeling many will be doing the same as me. I just hope that either BT realise that if they want to charge extra for ESPN, they will loose many customers, or they operate like they do with broadband - as soon as you say you want to leave they will offer you some deal to keep you a customer (in this case free ESPN)

[MrInfo]

Suprised a contract is still in place, even after Setanta failed.

In the long term, I suspect that BTV will probably raise the price of their BTV packages to cover the cost of allowing it's customers to view the ESPN service. I guess they will have to tred very carefully, so that they wouldn't throw themselves out of the market with Sky, etc.

[Matterhorn]

I'm fortunate to have legal advice close to hand as part of my job... and even luckier to have someone in that area who actually has BTV.!!

..in short, she believes that BT haven't got a leg to stand on.]

[nemulate]

Thanks for the advice, like others I'll wait and see what BT do before cancelling if need be.

[MrInfo]

I wonder if people like myself who were sold the BTV package due to the offer by Setanta will be able to break their contract (if at all)? I've still got just under a year to go.

[Matterhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrInfo

I wonder if people like myself who were sold the BTV package due to the offer by Setanta will be able to break their contract (if at all)? I've still got just under a year to go.

I give up....

have you read the thread?

I also want out, I think Sky would be better value at this stage, If anyone is having any luck with this setanta issue i'd love to know.

[Matterhorn]

Interestingly the terms and conditions for all BT products were changed 2 days ago!! Te website shows only the new revised set.

ian.livingston@bt.com

will get you someone from the exec team on 'the case'

email...

stating what you want and why you think you are entitled.

The first response will be 'No'

persistence is the key!

[streamer]

As far as I am concerned if I cannot watch EPL than I will cancel my contract providing I am able to get a satellite dish erected? BT can change the wording on their contract as many times as they like, I subscribed to their service to watch EPL inclusive in their costs. Now if they ask for more money there would have to be more incentives,for me to agree to stay with them.

[betsvigi9]

In spite of what Matterhorn has been told, I doubt that any decision has been made either way yet.

BT Vision significantly increased its take up by offering free Setanta. It will have a lot of very unhappy customers if it trys to charge extra for whatever ESPN end up offering and they must be aware of that. At a time when they are trying to build up their subscriber base to a significant mass, the fact that the offer of free Setanta persuaded a lot of people, me included, to get BT Vision will not be lost on them.

I suppose that a lot will depend on what ESPN want to charge, but they too will want to build up a significant customer base as quickly as possible too. I cannot see them pricing it such that they discourage BT from giving it away with their viewing packs. They will want people to get used to having it, so that they don't want to give it up and then they will put the price up

I would be surprised if ESPN does not end up being 'free' with a subscription to the bronze, silver and gold packs, at least for the time being. If it isn't, it will set BT Vision back by quite some distance and get them a lot of unwanted bad publicity.

[paulpocket]

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsvigi9

In spite of what Matterhorn has been told, I doubt that any decision has been made either way yet.

BT Vision significantly increased its take up by offering free Setanta. It will have a lot of very unhappy customers if it trys to charge extra for whatever ESPN end up offering and they must be aware of that. At a time when they are trying to build up their subscriber base to a significant mass, the fact that the offer of free Setanta persuaded a lot of people, me included, to get BT Vision will not be lost on them.

I suppose that a lot will depend on what ESPN want to charge, but they too will want to build up a significant customer base as quickly as possible too. I cannot see them pricing it such that they discourage BT from giving it away with their viewing packs. They will want people to get used to having it, so that they don't want to give it up and then they will put the price up

I would be surprised if ESPN does not end up being 'free' with a subscription to the bronze, silver and gold packs, at least for the time being. If it isn't, it will set BT Vision back by quite some distance and get them a lot of unwanted bad publicity.

I agree with all of that. It's in BT's and ESPN's Interest to have it inlcuded in BTVs packs for coming season at least.

[tellyaddicted]

surely the same issue will arise with all the IPTV and TUTV (so I believe) carriers who gave Setanta as a"free" package.I don't know the situation with Sky or their VOD service.

I asked them the same today and got told the same, They said had I been paying for Setanta that may have been a different story. I really want out of this contract, BT vision is turning out to be a load of old c**p, HD is rarely updated, On Demand is generally $hit.

[Matterhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsvigi9

In spite of what Matterhorn has been told, I doubt that any decision has been made either way yet.

BT Vision significantly increased its take up by offering free Setanta. It will have a lot of very unhappy customers if it trys to charge extra for whatever ESPN end up offering and they must be aware of that. At a time when they are trying to build up their subscriber base to a significant mass, the fact that the offer of free Setanta persuaded a lot of people, me included, to get BT Vision will not be lost on them.

I suppose that a lot will depend on what ESPN want to charge, but they too will want to build up a significant customer base as quickly as possible too. I cannot see them pricing it such that they discourage BT from giving it away with their viewing packs. They will want people to get used to having it, so that they don't want to give it up and then they will put the price up

I would be surprised if ESPN does not end up being 'free' with a subscription to the bronze, silver and gold packs, at least for the time being. If it isn't, it will set BT Vision back by quite some distance and get them a lot of unwanted bad publicity.

whilst I understand the point I don't really think that ESPN will see DTT as being particularly significant.

1/ No one has successfully made pay DTT work in the UK.

2/ Both BT and TUTV are on their knees financially and so missing out on them may be a blessing in disguise.

3/ DTT has a potential user base (pay TV) of 500k currently whilst Sky are pushing 10 million. If you are the CEO of ESPN..where are you looking??

4/ ESPN will have to charge a reasonable amount wholesale to BT and TUTV (otherwise it will end up like setanta) probably the same as they are charging Sky. Probably a price that BT nor TUTV can afford.


in short, if ESPN want to go DTT then it will be on THEIR terms ..and if it doesn't happen I can't see them being too bothered.

[samsung07]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matterhorn

whilst I understand the point I don't really think that ESPN will see DTT as being particularly significant.

1/ No one has successfully made pay DTT work in the UK.

2/ Both BT and TUTV are on their knees financially and so missing out on them may be a blessing in disguise.

3/ DTT has a potential user base (pay TV) of 500k currently whilst Sky are pushing 10 million. If you are the CEO of ESPN..where are you looking??

4/ ESPN will have to charge a reasonable amount wholesale to BT and TUTV (otherwise it will end up like setanta) probably the same as they are charging Sky. Probably a price that BT nor TUTV can afford.


in short, if ESPN want to go DTT then it will be on THEIR terms ..and if it doesn't happen I can't see them being too bothered.

Still peddling the same worn out story about finances I see.

Good job Ofcom are looking to address Sky dominance in the market then as this is the really issue and providing a level playing field for content across any platform and provider will surely make things better.

[stuntmaster]

Well done matterhorn for confusing the users yet again.

I would think BT would re-negotiate the same sort deal with ESPN as they did with setanta. if thats not viable im sure BT will give the existing contracted people as part of a package somethign else.

Matterhorn has taken advantage of the situation to 'worry' or 'rubbish' the situation making it look like ESPN wont be on DTT. and they stated quite clearly that they will be operating on ALL platforms weather wholesale or not.

they could be wholesaling to BT and TUTV. sure the freeviewer looses out but it still is on DTT.

so please stop making matters worse and just let ESPN ride. just because you hate pay TV on DTT.

[Matterhorn]

peddling the same thing because it's the truth. Sorry if you can't read the balance sheet.

Yeah..what we really don't need is an independent company, starting from scratch and creating a service that literally millions of people enjoy. It is not Sky's fault that BT have no clue and no money.

Sky refute the claims and will go to every court to defend their position..good for them..

this is a great link... makes a lot of sense..

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...es-belief.html

and try this..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...r-remotes.html

this bit is really good...

"....Its broadcasts will be shown on Sky's satellite platform, proving it is both possible to buy premium sports rights in the UK and reach a wholesaling agreement with Sky, two things the likes of BT and Virgin have argued need regulatory intervention to make happen....."

[Matterhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

Well done matterhorn for confusing the users yet again.

I would think BT would re-negotiate the same sort deal with ESPN as they did with setanta. if thats not viable im sure BT will give the existing contracted people as part of a package somethign else.

Matterhorn has taken advantage of the situation to 'worry' or 'rubbish' the situation making it look like ESPN wont be on DTT. and they stated quite clearly that they will be operating on ALL platforms weather wholesale or not.

they could be wholesaling to BT and TUTV. sure the freeviewer looses out but it still is on DTT.

so please stop making matters worse and just let ESPN ride. just because you hate pay TV on DTT.

er no...

I asked the question for me...as a BT customer. The response I was given was interesting...to me... and I though it might interest a wider group such as this.....if not then the mods can delete this thread.

I specifically posted in opening..

I'm not giving any opinion or making judgement and I appreciate that this could be something or nothing. I am simply reporting what I was told. Take it for what you will.

to try and avoid the rubbish you posted.

The rest of the replies/responses are forum heresay.... and you must surely know about that!

legally, you see (to quote Al Gore)

'the rules do care..'

to replace Setanta with something else would need to be done inconjunction with its' customers agreement.

i.e. you couldn't replace it with free picturebox for example.

and,,

ESPN would not cater for the IPL fans, boxing fans, golf fans etc.

did anyone sign up to free Setanta to get baseball.?

for BT this is a big problem due to the tie between broadband and TV. Cancelling TV is one thing, cancelling the whole package is another.

the equivalent of Option is available thru a bt subsidiary for £10 less!!

I'm gonna get stuck into them again tomorrow... and a phone call to Ofcom looms...

[Matterhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

Matterhorn has taken advantage of the situation to 'worry' or 'rubbish' the situation making it look like ESPN wont be on DTT. and they stated quite clearly that they will be operating on ALL platforms weather wholesale or not.

in all seriousness have you got a link for that?

[samsung07]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matterhorn

peddling the same thing because it's the truth. Sorry if you can't read the balance sheet.

Yeah..what we really don't need is an independent company, starting from scratch and creating a service that literally millions of people enjoy. It is not Sky's fault that BT have no clue and no money.

Sky refute the claims and will go to every court to defend their position..good for them..

this is a great link... makes a lot of sense..

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...es-belief.html

and try this..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...r-remotes.html

this bit is really good...

"....Its broadcasts will be shown on Sky's satellite platform, proving it is both possible to buy premium sports rights in the UK and reach a wholesaling agreement with Sky, two things the likes of BT and Virgin have argued need regulatory intervention to make happen....."

Sorry that you don't understand what a monopoly is and what barriers to market mean.

No one is saying that Sky hasn't been successful and should continue to be but the issue here is about market dominance and any company that has a dominent market position should be looked at to ensure the rights of the consumer and the overall market are operating in the best interests of all parties. Clearly Ofcom believe that Sky are not and as usual Sky show their true colours with a total guns balzing approach with no hint of cooperating in the review. Also Sky's friends , the News Corp dominated press, whip up the poor little Sky press comments etc.

Funny also that Sky are happy to use Ofcom when calling for Virgins network to be opened up but don't see the opposite as legal.

[samsung07]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matterhorn

in all seriousness have you got a link for that?

You mean the all knowing Matterbore doesn't know?


http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/b...002797.article

"ESPN wants the new channel, which joins ESPN Classic and ESPN America in its UK portfolio, to be available on every platform, including Virgin Media, BT Vision and Freeview."

[wwwebber]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsung07

You mean the all knowing Matterbore doesn't know?


http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/b...002797.article

"ESPN wants the new channel, which joins ESPN Classic and ESPN America in its UK portfolio, to be available on every platform, including Virgin Media, BT Vision and Freeview."

To be honest, if it's on Freeview, it'll be on BTVision & TUTV anyway. But either way you're correct & Matterhorn aka Archie is wrong yet again.

[foxkilla]

[quote=samsung07;33396715]Matterbore QUOTE]

i just love that,

[techsmedders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsung07

You mean the all knowing Matterbore doesn't know?


http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/b...002797.article

"ESPN wants the new channel, which joins ESPN Classic and ESPN America in its UK portfolio, to be available on every platform, including Virgin Media, BT Vision and Freeview."

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwebber

To be honest, if it's on Freeview, it'll be on BTVision & TUTV anyway. But either way you're correct & Matterhorn aka Archie is wrong yet again.

I'd doubt the reliability of that website seeing as ESPN have yet to say if they are launching a new channel or revamping EPSN America (see here). And also, ESPN is never going to available on Freeview as its never going to FTA

So before calling someone wrong why don't you wait for ESPN, BT and other providers to make a decisions and come to carriage agreements so then we do 'know' what is happening as opposed to 'speculating'