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How and Why did you guys get BB4 USA?


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Old 07-07-2009, 20:06
Yobaba**
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If America had voted Memphis out, and the couples and Jerry had made it to the end, I think BB10 would be much lower rated by fans, and I would have been forced to actually root for APRIL out of that group....
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Old 07-07-2009, 20:08
Yobaba**
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And I think Jordan could be an early exit for the girls..... She just kept on going on and on about her new boobs in the clip I saw of her.
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Old 07-07-2009, 20:12
Kyle123
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All this Dan talk has got me wondering - what would have happened if Dan had to evict Memphis? The whole thing would have totally flipped on its head.

Dan probably would have had one hell of a battle to get anywhere near the end, because that result would have left Keesha, Renny and Libra extremely vulnerable with the whole house against them. Jessie and Michelle would have stuck together, and I think they'd have still joined with April and Ollie who would have had a betrayal attempt by their own alliance. I think Dan would have been looking at 6th place considering Renny, Keesha and Libra would have been totally wiped out by Michelle and Jessie in competitions...
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Old 07-07-2009, 20:17
Yobaba**
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My thoughts on the rest of the girls, briefly...

Michelle - Kail, with a bit of Rachel
Natalie - Ivette but less dumb
Lydia - Nakomis but less smart
Jordan - Boobs

Laura - Will be bitchy and disliked by other HG's.

Black lady - Too out-spoken to get very far in the game...

SO, none of these look like likely winners based on first impressions, hopefully I'm mistaken. I do actually like some of them.
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Old 07-07-2009, 20:18
mindset
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But that would have been the voters harming Dan, rather than helping him out.

With voters Dan evicts Jessie and goes on to win.

Without voters Dan evicts Jessie and goes on to win.
My point is, the voters could have chosen to harm Dan....but didn't. They chose to help him. If they had NOT voted to evict Jessie, then Memphis would've gone and Dan would've had a herculean task on to win then.
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Old 07-07-2009, 20:21
mindset
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All this Dan talk has got me wondering - what would have happened if Dan had to evict Memphis? The whole thing would have totally flipped on its head.
This is the point I've been making....Dan probably wouldn't have won but for America's voting help. Erm.....a bit like Dick!
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Old 07-07-2009, 21:44
makosi4eva
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I have no idea how Jun is so popular on this side of the pond. She was considered one of the worst people to ever be in a final and let me tell you it was not a 'love to hate' situation but rather an extremely disappointing final. The mood was just awful. The public felt the same way as the ratings just tanked as apparently a huge portion of the audience refused to even lend ratings.
More sponsors were emailed complaints and CBS received more hostile and disappointed mail regarding Jun.
It was like a funeral. It was also the fastest 'wrap up' and dismissal ever seen.
This was a person who seethed some pretty hateful words against the 9 year old child of a former HG.
I wont even get into it.
She was so despised by HGs and everyone else that she had her keys all but thrown at her (as if into a rubbish bin) and all but told to take her money and **** off and don't bother ever coming back here again.
Again.. not in a 'so mad at her' good type of way but in a very disgusted way where she wasn't welcomed by anyone anymore and the sooner she was gone and forgotten the better.
I am actually confused even one person remembers her as anything but a truly horrible young woman full of mean and petty hatred and contempt with next to no redeeming qualities.
I remember. That's part of the reason why it was such a great final two... the drama, the hate. It's Big Brother, I don't care whether they're good people or not.
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Old 07-07-2009, 22:12
scout35
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I don't know why people say Jun isn't popular with hardcore fans. That's not what I read on the forums. She may not have been popular during her season, but she is now.

I also read that the only reason Jun wasn't on All-Stars was because she had just started a new job and couldn't leave. I don't know if that is 100% accurate, but I think that is what most people have said.
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Old 07-07-2009, 22:17
Kyle123
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I don't know why people say Jun isn't popular with hardcore fans. That's not what I read on the forums. She may not have been popular during her season, but she is now.

I also read that the only reason Jun wasn't on All-Stars was because she had just started a new job and couldn't leave. I don't know if that is 100% accurate, but I think that is what most people have said.
I read that she went in for talks wanting to play again, but they simply didnt select her. (Which is a bit of an insult if you ask me: as a former winner, she deserved to at least be considered)

I would imagine they asked most of the former players back. Live feed conversations on Youtube confirmed that a load of players turned them down - off the top of my head, I can remember Will saying that he contacted Nicole, Hardy, Shannon and Krista from his season and none of them wanted to do it, and someone else saying that Jason and Amy were invited, but turned them down.
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Old 07-07-2009, 22:31
mindset
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I can remember Will saying that he contacted Nicole, Hardy, Shannon and Krista from his season and none of them wanted to do it, and someone else saying that Jason and Amy were invited, but turned them down.
I find it delicious that anyone would believe Will ......as if he would have wanted any of them in the house with him. Boogie only made Allstars because Will insisted on it.

Shame Lisa lost out to Chicken George though, FFS!
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Old 07-07-2009, 22:38
Kyle123
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To be honest, I totally believe him in saying that. Shannon aside, they all have a serious claim to be there.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:02
qdm1987
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I like Jun in the sense where they say a floater cannot win the game, well yeah they can but I liked her better than Maggie, I know that.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:09
Kyle123
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I like Jun in the sense where they say a floater cannot win the game, well yeah they can but I liked her better than Maggie, I know that.

In my opinion, Jun is the acceptable type of floater, because I see floaters as coming in two styles.

Jun "floated" between alliances, going wherever the power was and dealing with that side, before floating back to the other side and making deals there. Whilst technically speaking, it was just getting other people to do the dirty work, it could have put her in many dangerous situations where she was betraying promises, but somehow it didnt and nobody tried to retaliate. Alison played this type of game too, but ended up breaking promises, and as a result, had to go on that super run of competitions at the end to have any chance of the money.

The other type of floater is the type who just waits in the middle, lets the two groups attack each other, and then gets through to the end after doing nothing. (Erika BB7) At least Jun and Alison bothered getting involved in the gameplay. Erika just basically sat back, road on coattails, allowed herself to go up on the block from time to time, and then got no support in the final against an odeous ****.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:25
Redmond
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This is the point I've been making....Dan probably wouldn't have won but for America's voting help. Erm.....a bit like Dick!
No, that doesn't make sense.


Without America's "help" Dan would have just evicted Jessie anyway, so he still would have played the exact same game and gone on to win.

It just so happened that America voted for Jessie anyway, but it resulted in the same thing.

If America voted for him to get rid of Memphis, then that wouldn't have been helping Dan anyway, they would have been making it harder for Dan, not helping him like they did with Dick.

So it isn't like Dan needed America to help him out, he was always going to get rid of Jessie.

Dick NEEDED America to help him out, otherwise he would have been evicted over Dustin because Eric was going to vote him out.

Do you get me?

I read that she went in for talks wanting to play again, but they simply didnt select her. (Which is a bit of an insult if you ask me: as a former winner, she deserved to at least be considered)

I would imagine they asked most of the former players back. Live feed conversations on Youtube confirmed that a load of players turned them down - off the top of my head, I can remember Will saying that he contacted Nicole, Hardy, Shannon and Krista from his season and none of them wanted to do it, and someone else saying that Jason and Amy were invited, but turned them down.

Yep, Jason and Amy both turned it down.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:34
mindset
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No, that doesn't make sense.


Without America's "help" Dan would have just evicted Jessie anyway.......

Afraid not . If America had chosen not to HELP Dan, he would've been FORCED as AP, to evict Memphis.......thus damaging his own chances of winning.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:38
Redmond
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Afraid not . If America had chosen not to HELP Dan, he would've been FORCED as AP, to evict Memphis.......thus damaging his own chances of winning.
Yes, but then as I said, they would be hurting Dan rather than helping him, so that invalidates your claim that he needed their help.

Ugh it's hard to explain but I know what I mean.

The difference between Dick and Dan is that, Dick needed AP to help him because in his real game he was in danger. Dan never needed AP in his real game because he was in control. Does that make more sense?

The only danger for Dan was them adding AP, so in fact it is the opposite of Dick's situation.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:49
3rd World Disco
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Lydia also hasn't seen the show before (apart from the seasons given to her in sequester), so she could be very niave.
You know, I've heard this so often from houseguests that I'm a little bit skeptical and just glaze over when it's presented. Completely unlike me, as you will agree or else.

It stars with "never watched before," then slowly anecdotes of other seasons drip into boredom-induced chatter and before long, they slip up completely and break down a past houseguest's complete strategy before swallowing their words with a meek "I mean, I saw a little on YouTube..." or wtf.

Not judging Lydia by this, btw. I've not even watched the pre-interviews but I get the feeling she could be interesting in some way.

Uh. I also liked Jun. She wasn't very likable admittedly, but damn she was funny.
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Old 07-07-2009, 23:51
mindset
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Yes, but then as I said, they would be hurting Dan rather than helping him, so that invalidates your claim that he needed their help.

Ugh it's hard to explain but I know what I mean.

The difference between Dick and Dan is that, Dick needed AP to help him because in his real game he was in danger. Dan never needed AP in his real game because he was in control. Does that make more sense?

The only danger for Dan was them adding AP, so in fact it is the opposite of Dick's situation.
You say Dan "was in control", but he patently wasn't ,because at that time he was AP and did America's bidding. Which is where Dan did receive America's help, because without it he would've lost Memphis and would've been a dead man hanging.....waiting to be cut down by the couples alliance. There's no doubt that Dick was the recipient of a whole load of help along his way to victory, but in this crucial instance, so was Dan
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:04
Redmond
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You say Dan "was in control", but he patently wasn't ,because at that time he was AP and did America's bidding. Which is where Dan did receive America's help, because without it he would've lost Memphis and would've been a dead man hanging.....waiting to be cut down by the couples alliance. There's no doubt that Dick was the recipient of a whole load of help along his way to victory, but in this crucial instance, so was Dan
Hmm, I still don't see it that way, I'm guessing we'll have to agree to disagree.

The way I see it. In Season 8, America's Player was a big help to Dick that he needed.

In Season 10, America's Player was an unwanted hinderance on Dan that he didn't need. AP was forced upon him.

Dan was playing just fine, then he was given AP, so that wasn't helping him which you stated it was. That was a negative, so in fact Dan had to overcome even more!

It didn't help him on his way to victory, it was another obstacle on his way to victory that he overcame, which makes him an even worthier winner, especially more worthy than Dick.

Dan was given America's Player, he didn't need it.

Dick needed America's Player and America/Eric gave him it.
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:15
3rd World Disco
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I still think it's odd Dan was saddled with AP after a public vote, as he was such a nonentity (both on CBS and feeds) at the time. It was early days.

But then he was AP for such a brief period of time that I'm not sure his situation compares with Eric's.

This is a Donato-free post.
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:20
mindset
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Hmm, I still don't see it that way, I'm guessing we'll have to agree to disagree.

LOL , I'll give it one more go

The way I see it. In Season 8, America's Player was a big help to Dick that he needed.

Agreed

In Season 10, America's Player was an unwanted hinderance on Dan that he didn't need. AP was forced upon him.

Dan agreed to accept it, it wasn't forced on him. I Agree it could've been a serious hindrance.

Dan was playing just fine, then he was given AP, so that wasn't helping him which you stated it was. That was a negative, so in fact Dan had to overcome even more!

Agreed, Dan was playing just fine. The help I'm trying to get you to see, is America deciding to evict Jessie instead of Memphis. If America had decided not to help Dan....they would've evicted Memphis

It didn't help him on his way to victory, it was another obstacle on his way to victory that he overcame, which makes him an even worthier winner, especially more worthy than Dick.

Agreed Dan was a much worthier winner than Dick. But Dan needed America to vote to evict Jessie. This is how the AP helped Dan.

Dan was given America's Player, he didn't need it.

Agreed, but he needed America to evict Jessie, which they did....thus helping him.

Dick needed America's Player and America/Eric gave him it.

Agreed.


Goodnight Redmond
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:25
Kyle123
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In fairness to Dan, I imagine he had no choice really. I really doubt they'd have encouraged people to vote for AP, only to let him turn it down. And they couldnt have given it to the person in second place (lets say for example it was Jerry) because then Dan would know that someone in the house was AP, and would have had an advantage over the other housemates.
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:30
mindset
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In fairness to Dan, I imagine he had no choice really. I really doubt they'd have encouraged people to vote for AP, only to let him turn it down. And they couldnt have given it to the person in second place (lets say for example it was Jerry) because then Dan would know that someone in the house was AP, and would have had an advantage over the other housemates.
The $20k on offer was very persuasive lol
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:30
ElProximo
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Nope it's still your opinion.

They invited Jun back last year for the "10 Seasons Anniversary" quiz, so they can't be that much bad blood between them. And Jun was considered for All-Stars but didn't make the final cut of 20 (I think it was 20...).

I think if you check out most forums "Best Winners" lists, Jun is always in the top half above winners such as Lisa, Drew, Maggie, Boogie and Adam.
Uh, no I was describing actual events and giving you some actual information you should be thankful for.
You have decided to 'survey forums' as if you can contrive some 'counter-argument' this way.
So really, you are not even offering an opinion but just what you imagine must have been some opinions. Yikes.
It is possible (and apparent) that with enough time going by people want to say Jun was an ideal player or had the greatest 'floater' strategy etc. In that sense a ranking.
However,
If you are asking if Jun was 'popular' in the sense of the viewing public and especially live-feed viewers - well maybe ask CBS people how much of a security concern she was and what they did with thousands of vicious hate mails and calls.
Since you like statistics you can look up how low the ratings were for that final and how much more they dropped in the last 15 minutes. Jokes were made that you could literally hear televisions nationwide click off.

Some asked why anyone would call her a 'piece of shit' but the answer is simple:
Live-Feeds and editing.
And no this isn't a case of 'making her look good' but was more a problem where if they had shown certain events it would have been trouble for them. As in massive complaints and even jeopardised the series itself.
Seriously it was that bad.

But again, IF the idea is to take an objective look at plain old strategy and rank winners simply based on play and position... ...well I can see someone saying Jun was this or that ranked.
If that is the kind of 'popularity' we are talking about.
Jun would be there with Drew as 'ultimate floaters' who could be said to have 'floated down the middle' to wins.
Its funny to me people admire that but then if that gets you the win then that is by definition the best strategy.
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:34
Kyle123
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Oh and by the way, if it helps, I can see both of your points and came up with the following summary which I think gives the fairest explanation.

* Dan didnt need AP to win BB10. He had the right mindset going into Keesha & Libra's plan to evict Jessie, and would have evicted Jessie and become part of that alliance anyway.

* AP did Dan a favour by choosing to evict Jessie over Memphis, though like I just said, he knew the score anyway. Had America voted to evict Memphis, Dan would have been in a lot of trouble with Keesha & Libra, and stuck at the very bottom of the April-Michelle alliance.

* America didnt win the game for Dan, America allowed Dan to play out his strategy and do things the way he wanted to.

The difference between Dan and Dick is that America saved Dick from certain eviction, and without AP Dick wouldnt have won. Dan probably would have won without AP anyway, it just benefitted him that America went the same way as him.
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