I suspect that it is a known problem.

I have a PVR9300T which locks up regularly, particularly annoying if I am away on a business trip.

My sister has a PVR9150T which has the same problem.

Sometimes the picture and sound are working but the remote is locked out. Sometimes the picture and clock are frozen.

I suspect that it is due to heat. The original PVR9300Ts were criticised as the fan was always on and made a hell of a racket. Humax released a software update which solved this problem. Perhaps the fan was originally always on for good reason.

--Badsector

My 9300 is cool, perhaps tepid; not warm, and certainly nowhere near hot enough to need a fan.

I bought my 9300 only after the new software was released and immediately applied it. I couldn't have tolerated the noise with the fan permanently on.

My humax is cool too, the only time I ever hear the fan going on is when I turn it on in the morning...

My manager recently purchased a Humax PVR9300T. He has the same crash/lockup problem. He turns it off at night to let the unit cool off, but is annoyed that it doesn't save the program guide when it is switched back on.

Clearly some people have no problems with their 9300, but equally clearly other people do. Whether there was a batch of sensitive units or perhaps some units are positioned where they don't get as hot, it's not clear. I think that there should be some consumer protection to avoid manufacturers selling products that have known problems.

It seems to be a problem which is getting more and more common. My Dreambox locks up if it gets too hot. I was even warned when I bought it. The problem appears to be that the manufacturer didn't put a heatsink on top of the main chip, which possibly might fix the problem. I've read of other set-top-boxes which have a reputation for crashing due to bad thermal management.

--Badsector

After locking up on five of the seven days between 5th July and 11th July, since then my 9300 hasn't locked up at all. My mother's locked up on two of those days and also hasn't locked up since.

I'm now convinced that this problem is caused by the Humax sometimes reacting poorly to dodgy EPG data (since EPG data lasts a week at most).

I don't believe it's anything to do with heat. There's been no difference in the ambient temperature in my lounge between the last week when the box has behaved perfectly and the previous week when it didn't. And before that we had a heatwave during which the box also behaved perfectly.

Why do you think it is the EPG and not MHEG?

Because:
a) I don't know what MHEG is
and
b) I use EPG as a generic term for the non-TV picture and sound parts of the signal
and
c) dodgy EPG data must naturally cycle out in seven days or less, thus agreeing with the symptoms

In any case, does it really matter which bit of the data is causing the problem?

I'm with Martin on this one, in that it is much more likey to be MHEG related than EPG.

EPG data is concerned with the information about the programmes, scheduling etc., broadcast in the "EPG Stream" (EIT/sched, EITp/f, etc.).

MHEG Data comes with the broadcast stream, and is used for BBCi type of stuff, Red Button, Radio Channels Screen Overlays, Digital Text, BBC News Multiscreen etc.

It does matter which bit of data it is, as to fix it, will require different actions, and even different 3rd party companies.

I also had a lockup on the 13th, the same as some others posted here and elsewhere. I don't believe it was caused by bad EPG data, or fixed by the EPG data cycling out over 7 days.

We have seen a number of reports of 9150/9300s locking up, but no 9200s.

Martin will attest to the early days of the 9200 being plagued with MHEG lockups, causing Humax to release a software update to fix them; since then the 9200s have been well behaved.

Humax outsourced the 9150/9300 MHEG engine development to a different 3rd party company, so it is not the same engine as the 9200.

I would suggest that some combination (or corruption) of MHEG data is causing the 9150/9300s to lock up, as the "new" engine is not handling it, or recovering, as elegantly as the 9200 now is.

Rgds.


Les.

I hesitate to respond as you're obviously far more knowledgeable than I on this subject, and that's really the point. You care about how it works: I don't - I just want it to work. This is why it makes no difference to me and, I suspect, to most users what the cause of the problem is. Sure, Humax need to know, but that's for them to investigate.

From your description I don't use MHEG data so that can't be the cause in my case. And MHEG data doesn't cycle out after seven days as EPG data does. But I really don't care which it is.

Hi Alan,

Don't be hesitant to respond, this all helps to share knowledge to those that are interested (any many on these forums are). I'm certainly not out to belittle anyone.

Like you, I just want it to work, too, and yes Humax need to know, but the more we can help them isolate the cause of a potential bug, the quicker it can get fixed (hopefully ).

Just a slight clarification, if your box is switched on, receiving a channel, it is getting MHEG data whether you are "using" it or not.

But, I do agree with you - it should just work.

HTH.

Rgds.


Les.

Hi
i have a 9200 recently my unit has been locking up requiring a reboot or freezing usually it will respond if i wait
this has only got bad since DSO started in my area mid june and still does it since it finished 22 july
now is the 8k mode causing the problemin its own right or in relation to the mheg
pitty the on off button does not have a press and hold to force reboot option rather than trying to find the switch on the back every time

The "freezing" issue is a frequently reported issue with the Humax PVRs although for me this has occurred very infrequently. It is usually referred to as "very slow response to remote". AFAIK no definite cause or cure has been identified. I don't recall anyone previously associating it with DSO. Certainly in my area DSO is not due until 2012 so it's not the cause in my case. For me it has usually occurred during the first hour or so after coming out of standby so I have thought it may be due to the processor being busy detecting the data and populating the EPG and other tasks at this time. However I had an occurrence yesterday when the unit had been switched on all day which tends to blow that theory.

Colin

Not necessarily. I believe that the EPG has a flag of some sort to indicate that the EPG has changed -- possibly the date and time of the most recent change. So all that the PVR has to do is remember the date and time of the most recent change, and check that against the date and time in the EPG. Only when the two disagree does the PVR need to re-acquire the EPG.

How often do EPG changes occur (i.e. programmes are rescheduled)? I have no idea.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

That's an interesting possibility. I have noticed that when it occurs at times other than soon after coming out of standby it only lasts for a few minutes. I'll try and remember how long it does actually last in future and see if there is any pattern. Having said that, it does not consistently occur every time after coming out of standby and I do usually start performing commands during that time.

Better drop the "slow response to remote" issue in this thread I think as it is OT for the thread title. I don't want to confuse this with genuine full lock-ups.

Colin

Just to add my vague experiences into the mix...

I have owned a 9200 for ages and no problems to report, perhaps a lock-up every 6 months or even less frequently.

At christmas I bought a 9300T for my parents, and they have experienced a number of lockups since. The unit is left on during the day (using auto-on and auto-off functionality and so will often be on BBC1), and will lock up randomly by just freezing the picture, no response to remote or anything other than power-off. I felt bad as I had recommended the Humax.

I have popped round and restored factory defaults and said things like "this shouldn't happen, mine's fine" and other unhelpful comments, but still the lock-ups continue.

Recently my sister bought a 9300T and although she hasn't had a lock-up yet her box as just missed some of the scheduled recordings. They are set to start 3 minutes early and end 10 minutes late, so to my mind they shouldn't be relying on any data to start recording, they should just use the clock (surely).

Bizarrely my parent's 9300T has this last week failed to record "who do you think you are" in a similar manner. Why would two boxes just start failing to record? Both my parents and sister live within a mile of each other, so that could suggest some transmitter issues, but I still feel that:-

a) if the recording is programmed to start to time, and not using "accurate recording" it should just start on time

b) transmitter problems or not, the Humax shouldn't be so fragile.

So two problems - random lock-ups and failure to record.

Any advice? Should they bother returning these to the supplier? If they can't be relied on to record then it defeats the object of having one really.

Advice gratefully appreciated.

thanks.

Hi
I've just posted a thread about bbc transmitter problems.

Reading through this post I have had similar problems prior to the problem I'm having now.

It started about 2 weeks ago with lockups,recordings over running (or to short),and programs not being recorded.

Most of the lockups have been on bbc1, reading thought this post it looks like the majority of people have had problems with the bbc channels. I can't even watch bbc1 any more.

Humax dont seem to give a s??t about there customers.
they don't have any information on the web site.
And I'm fed up with customer service telling me to try a reset.

I used a digifusion PVR box for about 3 years and and didn't have a single problem.

I have a 9200T, which I retuned on Sunday night. Since then, it locks up totally after two minutes' viewing - if I try to watch any recordings with the aerial plugged in, it locks up after two minutes. However, if you take the aerial out, you can watch recordings without a problem.

I'm currently on the Sutton Coldfield transmitter, although I do have channels in the 800 range - I'll delete them tonight and see whether that helps. Also, I just checked on http://ukfree.tv and they're reporting that engineering works are currently going on, which may have a bearing (ironically I bought this box to replace the Thomson one I had previously - the last time engineering works took place on Sutton Coldfield, one of the muxes was down on power and took out more that half my channels when I returned. Guess which box I'm having to use now ).

Do you know of any other potential causes? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by uncle-carl : 29-07-2009 at 15:17

You are having 2 problems, and one may be contributing to the other.

I would do a combination of the full aerial out reset to defaults procedure, which is to be able to get at the Menu system in the case of a lockup, and then a full MANUAL tune on your transmitter to avoid receiving from more than one TX and getting channels in the 800s.

If you can get to the Menu without it locking up, you only need to do the normal Reset to Default from the Menu, no need to take the aerial out.

Here is the first procedure :-

1. Power OFF the receiver

2. Disconnect the Aerial cable

3. Power On the receiver

4. Press MENU

5. Select Installation

6. Enter your password (default = 0000)

7. Select Default Setting

8. Select YES

9. Enter your password (Default = 0000)

10. When the receiver restarts, power off

11. Connect the Aerial Cable

12. Power ON - the receiver will then search for the channels.

It is very important you remove the aerial as stated in step 2.

At point 12, when it comes to searching for the channels, use these instructions, copied from Big-les, to do the Manual Search, instead of the Automatic Search (See the last paragraph) :-

--------------------------------------------------------------
The reason for doing a Manual Search is to target the six multiplexes coming only from your preferred transmitter. The UHF channel numbers for your six multiplexes (digital channels) from your preferred transmitter can be obtained from the DTG web-site, click on “Consolidated Ofcom ‘Pocket Guide’ in PDF format”.

First you need to delete all existing channels.
Menu > Edit Channels > Edit Channel Lists > Password (0000) and delete all TV channels, note there is a Select All button. Go to Group, select Radio and delete all the radio channels. Press Exit on the remote control and when invited save all the changes.

You will now get a message saying No channels are available……, press OK. You should now be taken to the Installation menu, choose Manual Search. Select the first UHF channel number obtained from the DTG web-site for Channel (actually the order doesn’t matter) and press Search. When the search completes, Save. Select the next UHF channel number for Channel and press Search.....Save. Repeat this for all six UHF channel numbers and to finish press the Exit button. You will now find all your Freeview channels on their correct numbers with none in the 800 range.
---------------------------------------------------------

HTH.

Rgds.


Les.

Thanks Les - I'll give this a try tonight.

Cheers

Carl

swi, nobody appears to have responded, and I missed it in amongst the other posts, originally.

You will have seen in the earlier posts about lockups & MHEG, so I'll say no more about them.

You could also, conceivably get a lockup if you are receiving signals from more than one transmitter, at slightly different times, confusing the box.

Can you check that both boxes have no channels in the 800 range?

Is either box having problems receiving the full EPG?

The fact that both boxes probably receive from the same transmitter (or transmitters, if receiving from more than one), could be significant, especially in the recording failure.

I presume you are talking about Auto-Padding (setting this in the Menu, from "On Time" to 3mins early/10mins late), rather than a Manual recording set up from scratch from time X to time Y?

A couple of things here. If it is Autopadding, it does not just use the clock, it uses the Scheduled Start/Stop times in the EPG, to then subtract/add its padding. This is why I asked about the EPG, because if it is not updating properly, maybe because of receiving from 2 TXs, or the TX has transmitting problems, then this could cause a failure.

Also, I presume you are aware as a 9200 user, that if you use Autpadding, then it won't Series Link. So, if the recording was a 2nd/3rd etc., episode in a Series, this could account for why it didn't record.

Were there any other recordings before/after that could have caused a clash? Especially if there were any manually set recordings taking place.

I have to say that, generally, my 9300T is well behaved, and doesn't fail to record many (the odd one very rarely) programmes that can't be explained.

Rgds.


Les.

Les

Can you check that both boxes have no channels in the 800 range?

My son and I both have 9300's they have both been replaced by Humax for freezing problems etc. and are both still receiving freezes and some reboots.

Our transmitter - West Borders (was Caldbeck) has Nine MUX's from the same mast and we have channels 800 - 808'

These are for regional variations, there are also no other transmitters in range.

My question is could these 'genuine' 800 no's be having an effect on the freezing / lockup problems

I haven't done that much research into post-DSO situations, but I think you should only be receiving 6 muxes (the ones that were called PSB & COM, which have now been renamed), the others are "NEW" i.e. not allocated yet.

I didn't think there were "Regional Variations" from 1 TX, and there shouldn't be anything called "genuine 800s", 800s are duplicates.

Look at this page from Wolfbane (I just put in a random Caldbeck postcode).

You will see the 6 muxes, and the UHF Ch. nos. it suggests tuning into.

This page, explains the PSB/COM Mux renaming etc. for Caldbeck.

I would delete ALL your TV & Radio Channels, and when it takes you to the installation menu, do a Manual Search, individually, on each of these 6 UHF Ch. Nos, saving the results in turn, as per the Big-les instructions I posted further up.

Rgds.


Les.

OK., and have a read of this thread about Sutton Coldfield, with temporary masts etc.

So be careful when you rescan; should be OK in the evening as they are supposed to restore service. If you do the Manual procedure, you will definitely get the correct muxes on the correct UHF channels, but if they are having problems you may still get signal problems. Not a good outlook for Sutton Coldfield it seems until DSO.

Rgds.


Les.

Les

Thanks for your reply, however I hope you don’t mind if I disagree with some of your quotes:

Regional variations – Caldbeck transmits to both England & Scotland and most viewers in this area are used to this and want the BBC variations i.e. BBC1 & BBC2 England and the BBC1 & BBC2 Scotland we have had these for decades in analogue and when a scan is done even on a IDTV set (no PVR) these channels in the 800’s are found. One set ( a Toshiba) I did for a neighbour scanned them in the 900’s both at stage 1 and stage 2 of DSO.

The link to “Wolfbane” I would suggest this page is out of date because they show the UHF channels as 25, 23, 26, 39, 45, 42 and a wideband aerial

The link to “this page” shows for Caldbeck these MUX’s on UHF channels 22 to 30
Channels 21 and 48 named NEW 7 & NEW 8 are not used
After switchover
C21 C22- C23- C24- C25- C26- C27- C28- C29- C30- C48*

Mux NEW7 Mux PSB1 sc Mux SDN Mux PSB2 sc Mux BBCA Mux ArqA Mux PSB3 sc Mux D3+4 Mux ArqB Mux BBCB Mux NEW8

The “sc” suffix for C22, C24 and C27 are Scottish variations. All the BBC variations are on C27

An OFCOM document (issue 5.0 – 15 June 2009) about DSO for this region agrees with above

Re “Manual Search” I have done quite a few times and reset to defaults and rescans with no success.

I did one today following your previous reply about 4pm today and had a freeze at 17:26

One other question why is it so important to remove the aerial in the procedure ?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce,

I don't mind you disagreeing at all; as I say, I have no personal first-hand experience in a DSO area.

Yes, I should have noticed that Wolfbane & UKfree gave different UHF nos, my bad.

The aerial out procedure wasn't for you, I just suggested deleting and manually scanning. FYI, the aerial out procedure is for a box stuck in standby, or locks up soon after boot, and you can't get the Menu to do a reset & rescan.

If you've done all this, then I can't offer anything else, sorry.

Rgds.

Les.