Whilst I am fairly happy with the HDR the whole way it handles conflicts is really bugging me. Take tonight for instance.

My schedule was set as follows:-

9:00 to 10:00 - BBC 1 (Torchwood)
10:00 to 11:10 - Channel 4 (Big Brother)
10:00 to 10:30 - BBC 2 (Krod Mandoon)

Now I have 2 minutes pre-padding and 5 minutes post padding so obviously at 10:00 things are going to get interesting. Logically based on other PVR's and the fact that the HDR was quite happily scheduling them and not telling me there was any issues I would have expected the following to occur when recording:-

8:58 to 10:00 - BBC 1 (Torchwood)
9:58 or 10:00 to 11:15 - Channel 4 (Big Brother)
9:58 or 10:00 to 10:35 - BBC 2 (Krod Mandoon)

Obviously to not have a clash it would need to drop post padding on BBC 1 and drop pre-padding on either Channel 4 or BBC 2 which I would be perfectly happy with.

Just checking the recordings and the following has happened:-

8:58 to 10:05 - BBC 1 (Torchwood)
9:58 to 11:15 - Channel 4 (Big Brother)
10:05 to 10:35 - BBC 2 (Krod Mandoon)

The entry for BBC 2 has missed the first 5 minutes with the reason that there was a conflict with a higher priority recording however as it scheduled these it should have been able to take action earlier - i.e. drop padding as I would have expected to or even attempted to record channel 4 an hour later via channel 4+1 so it could maintain padding on all 3 recordings.

This whole area of scheduling and not reporting conflicts really needs to be looked at and improved somewhat. I do feel as though we have to babysit the HDR far more than I would really like to. I'd like to think I could go on holiday for 2 weeks and leave it to its own devices and be fairly confident that its not doing anything too out of the ordinary i.e. if they were to suddenly change the timings of a regular series so it clashed with another.

Based on your padding settings, it looks to me like it has followed your instrictions to the letter (on the "I've started, so I'll finish" rule). I'm actually impressed that it 'remembered' to do your BBC2 recording even though the start time you requested had already passed. The moment you use the padding feature you have taken control over from the foxsat and it becomes just a time based recorder.

Surely one simple answer is turn off auto padding? The other option in this specific case is do what I did, both Torchwood and Krod were on HD, so I recorded them from there (with no autopadding).

The HD channel meta data seems much more reliable, although I've not really had any problems with BBC1 and BBC2. As for the commercial channels, they all seem to start with long introductions (what we have shown you before) and end with long trailers (what we are going to show you next time, credits, coming up next and then adverts) so missing the start/end minute is not really an issue.

I'm afraid I don't really agree with Panman1300. The idea is that the HDR would record it negligently instead for us to have to manage (babysit) the behaviour of the box. Switching off auto padding, or having to manually decide which other channel to record from, defeats having a 'smart' box doing the thinking for us. If we can make the logical decision what to do, the HDR should use the same logic.

The box did it exactly as it should, theres no way Id want things to be cut off at the end, I want whatevers recording to finish recording.

Incidentally, why didnt you just record both of those programs on BBCHD and not get a conflict?

I'm not sure I fully follow your argument. To me, logic says it's better to miss the beginning of a programme than the end. Therefore the box, given that a conflict was introduced by the OP, worked logically.

Auto padding is not something you 'switch off', rather you have to make a conscious decision to find it to switch it on. Chosing another channel to record from IS part of MY process. It's on HD, I have an HD recorder and an HD TV, why would I want to watch in SD (except to save disk space)? And as the other programme I want is also on the HD channel, and immediately after, why not record that as well? That is my decision, the box can help by giving me the option, but it can't override what I decide to do.

sorry, but the actual recoding time is as stated in the original post, with auto-padding a safety measurement in case broadcasters run out of sync with their programming. So if the HDR is starting 1 program 5 minutes after the actual start-time, it is cutting of a program, whereas it should have not used the autopadding for one of the other programs. This to me is more logical than starting one program 5 minutes too late, or is it just me???

Windows Media Center does this brilliantly, btw.

so to further illustrate by example:
9:00 to 10:00 - BBC 1 (Torchwood)
10:00 to 11:10 - Channel 4 (Big Brother)
10:00 to 10:30 - BBC 2 (Krod Mandoon)

should be recorded as (with -2 and +5 autopadding):
8:58 to 10:00 - BBC 1 (Torchwood)
10:00 to 10:35 - BBC 2 (Krod Mandoon)
09:58 to 11:15 - Channel 4 (Big Brother)

Now all programs are recorded correctly. To me this is what we all want, and as such makes most logical sense.

I see that, but surely this only works if the broadcasters are accurate on all channels. In this mode the recorder would be using its internal clock to time events, not the start/stop signalling from the broadcaster. Or have I missed something?

Exactly, doing it that way will result in much more missed events than auto padding. Especially if theres live sport on previously on any of the channels.

The way its done now is perfect and completely logical, if something has to be missed, its better to miss the 1st 5 mins than the last 5 mins.

Most programs are worthless if you miss the last 5 mins.

I'm not sure what you say is the most logical potential implementation of Auto Padding.

It probably is, if you could be sure that the programmes were on time, but then if you could be sure of this, why use padding?

In this scenario, say, Torchwood is running 4 mins late (not out of the question, otherwise why would you think padding necessary?) So, under your logic, it would drop the padding for Torchwood, lose the ending, just to start the other programmes? I'd rather have the ending.

Auto-Padding would give me far too many of these types of clash, so on balance I much prefer AR, although Flyer10 makes a good point about Live Sporting Events.

Incidentally, I don't think this particular type of clash avoidance by dropping padding, is what is ultimately behind Richard's post. I think he is looking for the box to be more "intelligent" by looking for Alternate Instances at the time of the clash detection.

Rgds.


Les.

Not quite.

It's using the EPG Schedule time, to which it then adds/subtracts its padding. If the broadcasters do manage to update the EPG, for a schedule change, before the T-15 window, then the HDR with Autopadding should move as well.

Rgds.


Les.

Yes that would be ideal however I don't mind it dropping padding I just want the program recorded to the EPG times as this is most logical. If it was going to miss the start or the end of a program by not starting from the EPG start time or finishing on the EPG end time I would expect it to flag this as a problem.

I record in SD as I only have a SD TV and might want to transfer the recording to a laptop to watch whilst away. However if when I start to watch a recording and I work out that it may have missed the end then I would wait till the downstairs TV and V+ box were free and watch it from Virgin's catch-up service so dropping of padding is not a big problem (I sometimes watch them downstairs via catchup even if I have recorded it on the HDR).

Also (and I have posted this several months ago in another thread but it is relevant to this as well) I had a weird occurrence back in December when I set up three rceordings all on different channels as follows:-

10:30 to 11:00
11:00 to 11:30
10:00 to 11:05 (or 11:10 - can't remember)

No clashes were reported however as I have 2 minutes pre-padding and 5 minutes post padding I was expecting the following:-

10:28 to 11:00
11:00 to 11:35
9:58 to 11:10 (or 11:15)

What I actually got was:-

10:28 to 11:05
10:58 to 11:35
9:58 to 10:58

So basically it cut off the end of a recording in favour of keeping the padding on two recordings. Bizarre behaviour.

Wouldnt it just be better to switch to auto padding?

Yes, I remember that thread, and commented at the time that cutting off the end was odd/illogical behaviour.

Rgds.

Les.

I have been presuming Richard has been using Auto-Padding, (not manual padding).

Or do you mean "Auto" in the Recording Start & End Times Menu? This gives you Accurate Recording (AR).

Rgds.

Les.

I was talking about the manual padding he was doing.

This is user error, all he had to do is use common sense and check the schedule himself and either use the +1 channel or a different PVR.

It's not manual padding. I use auto padding i.e. Recording Start Time set to 2 min Early and Recording End Time set to 5 min late in the Recording menu under Settings.

I don't need to use another recorder (although I do have a backup Freeview PVR for the WRC on Dave) as I have Catchup facility via Virgin's V+ box if I have a major problem with the HDR. It is not user error as the box does not flag this as an issue when it quite clearly is i.e. stating it can record the scheduled programs to the given start and end EPG times but then quite clearly can't without user intervention.

Again the point of this thread is that we all seem to have to do far too much babysitting of the HDR - if I can use common sense to re-schedule the recordings then the HDR should be able to automatically after all thats what I brought it for. I want to set a series link and then expect it to record all the programs and only alert me if there are multiple clashes and it can't find a repeat showing for any of those that are clashing. Is this too much to ask?

Again tonight has proved how hard it is to pre-empt what the HDR is going to do with potential clashes. Tonights programmes all recorded as I expected they should.

Tonights schedule:

9:00 to 10:00 - BBC 1
9:30 to 10:00 - BBC 2
10:00 to 10:30 - BBC 2
10:00 to 11:10 - Channel 4

What the HDR did tonight was:-

8:58 to 10:00 - BBC 1
9:28 to 10:00 - BBC 2
10:00 to 10:35 - BBC 2
10:00 to 11:15 - Channel 4

Which is exactly what I would have expected it to do. So why did it behave sensibly tonight and drop padding so it could keep to the EPG times whereas the other night (see my opening post) it missed the start of a program?

I think there may be a few bugs in the clash detection and resolving logic when padding is enabled.