Are you actually asking why you need dance experts to judge a dance show?

If the public didn't have a say in the voting, I could understand having someone with no dance expertise as a judge, as a way of representing the viewers. But as the public have a lot of control over deciding the outcome, then the panel on TV should be there to provide the opposite.

No what i am saying is that we do not need all the panel to be dance experts, we need a balance, and in my opinion Alesha brings something to the panel that none of the others, including Arlene,bring. That is the experience of actually trying to learn to dance in such a short space of time. The public have their say in the outcome and at the end of the day it is the public who decides who goes through and who diesn't thru their votes. All the judges really do is give their opinions, and in Bruno and Craigs case this is not based on any ballroom or latin qualifications or from a performance experience view.

Not true at all. We couldn't interpret it to mean, for example, that the ex-contestants think Arlene leaving is a good thing. There is nothing there to support that- they are all expressing sympathy for her. We couldn't say they think Alesha is a fantastic replacement for Arlene, because none of them has said anything remotely along those lines. The logical options are:
-they think Arlene leaving is a shame, but unsure about what to make of Alesha joining
-they think Arlene leaving is a shame and they privately think Alesha joining is ridiculous.
Either way, do they think it's a great idea? Clearly not.

This is the difference between interpretation and imagination- you have to have a logical and plausible reason for reading something in a particular way. In this case it seems to me both logical and plausible that they may feel comfortable saying they think it's sad to say goodbye to Arlene when asked, but not think it prudent to give too negative an opinion of the new choice.

(another aspect to consider- most of the ex-contestants probably wouldn't rule out rejoining the show at some stage- for specials, tours etc. Do they want to offend the new judge, whatever they think of her?)


How can you not need dance experts to judge a dancing competition?

And anyone who has spent years learning a skill can appreciate what can and can't be achieved in a short, intensive, period. Even if they can't, they have enough experience of the show to realise it. Alesha only has her own experience of doing well on the show- does that help her appreciate what it is like for someone like John Sergeant, who never had any hope of doing well?

If you wish to make a complaint regarding the sacking of Arlene Phillips from Strictly Come Dancing, go here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/

so Simon Cowell as head judge on x factor is an expert singer is he ? No he most certainly is not, yet he seems to be qualified to judge, and before you ©o on about his experience, he worked for a record company and before he got involved in X factor, he brought us, Robson and Jerome, Zig and Zag, and Ant and Dec, hardly the cutting edge of music, oh yea forgot he also brought us Westlife for which he should never be forgiven. And one last thing, tell me when you or anyone has ever seen any of the judges actually dance ballroom dancing or Latin, including Arlene . The answer is never, because none, except Len, have ever danced it before

Are you trying to create a record for the number of times you can post the same thing on as many threads as possible and just go around being belligerent? Or are you Alesha's agent or something?

Glad you remembered at the last minute that Len is a dancer.

I have decided to remain outside this on- running saga and keep my opinions of it to myself, saves aggravation that way. I will wait for the start of the show and see what happens.

You have posted this 7 times today having not posted since 2007 - are you on a mission (or commission)?

Cowell knows what sells, XF is a competition to become a successful recording artist. There is no requirement on XF for the judge to start talking about the technicalities of singing (luckily for the contestants )- it is about whether the performance is something people would want to buy. As such all four of the XF judges are basically qualified to do their job.

Strictly judges are commenting on how well the celebrities learn and perform the dances. This is a different type of judging role, which will clearly involve needing to understand the technicalities, basic steps and character of each dance. Alesha only knows the character of the dance, and even there she is limited to the way Matt taught her, which is very different from what someone like Brendan would choreograph. So even there she may be limited in her understanding. I doubt she even knows all the basic steps of each dance- just what she learned from the particular routines she performed. That doesn't mean she wasn't very, very good on Strictly. It just means that a few months' training do not qualify her to judge dance.

There isn't a comparison between XF and Strictly judges for that reason- XF is not a competition to find the technically best singer- the judges and public alike are voting for who the public would buy records from. The supposed setup of Strictly is that the judges vote on the technical side of things (including, but not limited to, performance), whilst the public vote for who they like.

I have never been a particular fan of having judges from outside the ballroom/latin world, and I can't say I've ever liked Arlene. But the choreographer judges were still a vast improvement on Alesha.

you havent had the chance to judge Alesha yet as a judge, so how can you say they were a vast improvement, and you also miss the point that the supposed set up of strictly is changing this year TO include a judge on performance, for which Alesha is perfectly qualified

Since you came on here on 28 June you have then starting 9th July posted 65 times on the same subject, are you also trying for a world record?
You are stomping around this forum annoying people with your pedantic and aggressive posts which dont actually contribute to a discussion.

Is the X factor supposed to be at the 'cutting edge'? If so I must have missed this. I thought the normal format was:[LIST][*]contestant explains how they are entering the competition because their granny/mother/goldfish/woman down the road had expressed a dying wish that they compete on the X factor[/LIST][LIST][*]contestant sings a second rate version of a Whitney Houston/Stevie Wonder/Britney Spears song[/LIST][LIST]Someone on judging panel says: "you nailed it" or "you made that your own"[/LIST][LIST]Audience is overcome with emotion and bursts into tears[/LIST]Hardly cutting edge. Simon Cowell, as you rightly say, is an expert in marketing this nonsense and is therefore amply qualified to judge, as is Louis Walsh.



I think you miss Katie's point actually, that SCD is not like the X factor. Ballroom and Latin dancing is a sport, unlike the X factor, and is judged against technical standards, which are set by ISTD and IDTA, See http://www.dancesport.uk.com/ Dancers take a number of exams before they are up to competition standard.

Whilst I appreciate that you are probably an avid Alesha fan (I see you've not posted on any other subject since joining the forum), you need to appreciate that there are others of us who are dance fans. I accept that SCD is an entertainment show as well, and so I don't actually take a purist view that the panel should consist of only technically expert judges, but if the technical experts were better represented then there might be room for someone like Alesha who can give a different perspective. So I do think there is a compromise here. But to have only one expert judge (Len) is a travesty.

So will you accept that Simon Cowell is only qualified to judge on the Marketability of the performer, not the performance ?
in other words he is not an expert in judging singers as singers, only on what he thinks the great british public will stupidly part with their hard earned cash for after he puts a fortune into marketing them.


None of the celeb dancers will be taking an exam to get to competition standards, and most of the judges will not be qualified to judge to ISTD or IDTA standards , so as you said in your post it is an entertainment show and there should , be at least a couple of technical experts on the panel, and at least one of them should be judging from a performance POV and in my humble opinion Alesha is by far the best candidate for that position.

My defense of Alesha (and obviously i am an admirer of her talents) is based only on the wish that people would at least give her a chance. I find it very unfair to condemn someone who has an obvious love for the show, and has accepted a position on the show that most people on here would give both left feet for.

By technical judge, I mean someone who is qualified to judge to ISTD/IDTA standards, not just on performance. Alesha is not qualified to do that ( it takes several years to get to that level), but with two or three technical judges alongside her she might not be out of place. Just isn't the case at present. With all due respect, these threads have become very circular and so I'm backing out now, since they're going nowhere. I'm not going to post again to any discussion on Alesha/Arlene until the series starts (or if in the unlikely case where the situation changes). Suggest, that since you're new to the forum that you might want to have a look and see what other discussions are going on, since I think this subject has been exhausted for now.

To answer your question, yes Simon is only able to judge on marketability, but then he isn't giving marks out of 10 and as I said, it isn't a competitive sport.

I came to this forum after i heard on the internet about Arlene/Alesha, I am perfectly entitled to contribute to whatever topic i choose, you seem to have some sort of superiority complex just because you have contributed longer than i have, and i as a newcomer have the audacity to suggest you are talking nonsense. Are your tactics to try and intmidate and scare away anyone who doesnt agree with your views ?

I think it was actually just a genuine suggestion that if you're a fan of the show or Alesha in particular, there are definitely threads on this forum where you can find people to share your appreciation with. You might enjoy the Matt and Alesha appreciation thread for example.

If you want a more general discussion- not everyone is a huge fan of appreciation threads- there is the non-appreciation thread, where the idea is you can say what you like about the show and the people on it (within DS T&Cs of course) without offending anyone. There are also more general threads where people are speculating about things like who might appear on the new series, new professionals, the suggestion of a new voting format etc.

I also recommend the lazy journalist thread for a bit of light entertainment!

Of course you are free to post wherever and whatever you want... but the reality with the Arlene/Alesha situation, as Vivacious Lady said, is that the argument has become quite circular. It's an interesting debate because in some ways it comes down to the nature of the show and which direction the fans want the producers to take it in the future. Most people who post on here particularly in the off season are pretty committed fans of the show though, and as a result more likely to have a decided opinion on the matter. So the conversation becomes a bit repetitive, and whilst it can be interesting to debate, you aren't likely to change anyone's mind!

I suppose what it comes down to is that if you like the show, or even just Alesha, there is probably more to this forum than this debate that you might enjoy contributing to.

Well said, katie_p!

Exactly, well said katie.

Perhaps we could now stop over running this forum with pointless threads

In other words Give It a Rest.

My thoughts exactly!

Katie's comment is courteous and friendly - and spot on imho!

I so agree. Everything that can be said about this, has already been said ad infinitum. We're all just going round in circles now... and round and round and round and round and...

Please let's give it a rest until there's a new aspect of this to talk about or, even better, until the new series actually starts.