I've just replaced a Sky+ box with the Humax Freesat HDR.

I quite like the Freesat EPG etc. I just want to be able to add some additional non freesat channels to it without losing the simplicity of the freesat auto tuning.

If I tune in manually I get all sorts of rubbish channels, what I want it just add these to the freesat list of channels, eg as number 150, 151

Sky News, ITV HD

Is this possible to add one or two manual non-freesat channels without losing the easy to use nature of the initial set up?

If you're asking if you can add non-Freesat channels to the Freesat Epg then no you cant i'm afraid

Hey Presto! Half of your wish has already come true. ITV HD (what little there is of it) is only available on freesat. Not a whole channel mind, just the occasional 'Red Button Service' (and only then if someone at ITV remembers to throw whatever switch it is they have to do).

You'll have to talk to those nice people at Sky to get them to put Sky News on freesat, no one else can.

OK, let me re-phrase my question.

What's the easiest way to select the Sky News channel?

Someone mentioned four button presses - which four?

Incidentally I think my "new" humax is in fact reconditioned since the front flap has no film over it and has some scratches on it already.

Looks like I have just got someone else's returned item although the remote control and other stuff were wrapped like new.

There is no "easy" way. It can only be added in non-freesat mode, there will be no EPG, and no scheduled recording ability other than "instant" recordings.

You have to go into the Menu, Setup, Manual Tune, Arrow down to Transponder and press OK, Choose 12207 V, Select Search & OK, when finished press Save & OK. Then remember to redo all your Scheduled recording Timers which will have been erased.


If you are convinced it's not new, take it back.

Rgds.

Les.

Do I have to repeat this each time I want to view the channel?

Can I flip between EPG and non-EPG channels without re-tuning each time?

What have other people done to deal with this (fairly basic) issue?

Grumbled

until the air is as blue as the smilie.

Best thing I like is not paying Mr $ly to watch recorded programmes, on MY box, that were free to air !!

2nd best thing is NOT having $ly news with its biased reporting.

David

The procedure I gave you is to tune into & save the one transponder containing Sky News, without all the other transponder/channels.

Once you have done this, you will see an "STB Mode" in the first menu section. Navigate to that & change it from Freesat to non-Freesat. Once in non-freesat mode, you should only see a few channels (as long as you haven't previously done the full manual scan), including Sky News. Choose this from the channel list & voila. Delete all but Sky News if you want. You can flip in & out of non-freesat mode via that menu item fairly easily.

I'll leave you to search this forum, and read up about the limitations of non-freesat mode, recording, impact on freesat timers etc.

You seem to be under the impression that this is an "issue". It is primarily a Freesat box, that's what you bought it for; other channels, accessed via non-freesat mode is an adjunct.

If you wanted to access non-freesat channels more, perhaps you should have bought a generic FTA receiver instead.

Rgds.


Les.

I thought this with mine until I found there's a film on the panel on the unit behind the front flap. Remove this and its most likely the scratches will disappear as the scratches are actually lines in the film.

Quite a few of us here, probably a majority, have an issue with the fact that non Freesat channels don't show in the epg.

It seems from previous discussions that Humax don't view this as vital despite most users actually bought the box for both Freesat and non Freesat use.

Shhhh, someone might get upset if you say things like that

It is a Freesat EPG; how can non-freesat channels, that don't pay to be on the Freesat EPG, be included?


I would say that the vast majority of users (Joe Public, not DS Members) bought it for Freesat, and wouldn't have a clue about non-freesat. If you look at the Humax website, and their Product Leaflet, it has Freesat all over it, and doesn't get one mention of non-freesat in the leaflet. Visit the Argos website, where a lot of people will be looking & buying it, no mention of non-freesat.

Rgds.


Les.

Thanks for info.

I think most people regard Freesat (incorrectly) as meaning all free satellite channels rather than being some kind of brand that channels have to pay to join.

I still don't see why Humax shouldn't let users add their own selection of non-Freesat channels in a more integrated manner.

Granted the EPG would not work, but as long as it appeared in the channel listings simply as the channel name it would be acceptable.

Surely this feature would be a selling point?

ive not got a HDR, just the foxsat HD - but once you tune in all the manual channels on that - you can resort them - quite easy - click a block of them,. and mpove them all up to the top together.

I presume the HDR works the same - lucky I dont have to record off mine though


you can sort them out in about an hour.

sometimes its hard identifying exactly which region each one is though.

---------
i got various BBC/ITV/ then film channels, shopping. news, (incl russian and french)

Its clearly in the specification and is mentioned on most web sites. The specifications on the Humax web site are abridged.

As its in the specification and mentioned in most reviews its clearly a selling point and as such should be easily accessible and usable in the box which its not.

At the very least there should be parallel epgs, one for freesat mode and one for non freesat, it should be easy to change between modes, recordings should occur from both epgs irrespective of which mode the box is in (up to the max of 2 tuners in use of course), and changing between modes shouldn't affect channel line ups or scheduled recordings. neither should re-channels scans.

The fact the Humax does non of this effectively renders it not fit for purpose so far as its use as a non Freesat receiver goes. For the same reason, DISCEQ is also pretty useless as a feature to allow reception of other sats.

Come on now. In freesat mode its features are guided and in some areas controlled by the freesat specification. Agreed there is probably some degree of interpretation that Humax could use. None of us have had to implement a freesat box and get it approved by freesat to really know what is allowed (rather than what is possible).

Do the non-PVR freesat boxes from other manufactures allow you to add non-freesat channels to the freesat epg? I think not.

Do the new PVRs (panasonic now and the others on their way) allow non-freesat channels to be added to the freesat epg? Do they support simple switching between modes (do they have a non-freesat mode)? Do they support freesat scheduled recording when in non-freesat mode? Do they let you record two channels and watch a (sometimes limited number of) third channel?

Humax are almost a year ahead of the competition. The non-freesat functionality is almost certainly based on 'something they had lying around'. I doubt that Humax spent the effort developing a brand new integrated freesat/non-freesat box which is why it's an either/or.

Freesat is aimed at those people who currently watch analogue TV and will lose their signals in the coming years. Freesat and freeview are the no-cost options (apart from buying the stb) to replace analogue and not a new competitor in the media market. If you want other channels you have a monopolistic alternative.

Competition and a re-interpretation of the freesat guidelines MIGHT lead to additional functionality, but I suspect that this would not be added to the current Humax PVR but would be a new product line (so that they get paid for it). More manufacturers producing PVRs may have pressurised freesat to allow more flexibility. We don't know, and to keep hammering Humax because the box does not have features you want rather than what the spec says it shhould have is a little tiresome to read over and over again.

There IS a parallel non-freesat epg, it's called Sky. The freesat epg is free to use (with the right box), the Sky one is not (with the right box and viewing card). Your choice.


If you mistakenly bought a freesat+ box thinking it would make an excellent non-freesat recorder, then I think it's your purpose that is unfit. If you really dislike the Humax that much, please take it back and get something that was made for you needs. Alternativly go make your fortune developing the 'perfect' stb that everyone wants.

Of course not.

If they are 'non Freesat' then by definition they have no Freesat EPG data present. So all you could do even if it were allowed would be to add entryless names in the EPG grid.

Sorry, you obviously don't do irony (or do you need your hand holding with little 's) - nor remember what people earlier in this thread were Humax bashing about (and I am not a Humax apologist, but I do like a fair and reasonable debate about things, not just unfounded vitriol). And you did read the whole of my post?

Shall I explain it for you? Or will you go back and re-read this thread?

But of course, if you were allowed 'entryless names' (entry to the club without paying your fee as long as you stay quiet) there would be a big hue and cry "Why can't I edit the names of channels, don't Humax understand anything".

It is not mentioned on most shop's websites that people will be buying the product from.

You said "most users actually bought the box for both Freesat and non Freesat use. "

My point was that ordinary joe public, who want an easy freesat product (not DS tech savvy people), will look on the likes of Argos, Currys, Comet, John Lewis, Richer Sounds , Amazon, etc., to decide their purchase. None of these sites mention non-freesat on the product's first page, or "more features"; scrolling through 5 pages of user reviews on Argos fails to find a mention of non-freesat; even the Reevoo site that many comparison sites and electrical retailers link to does not mention it in their features list, or on the first page of their reviews.

I'm sure many "technical" review sites/magazines do talk about it, but most people who just want a box in preparation for DSO, replacement for Sky, replacement for VCR, etc., just go to Argos etc., and buy it with very little technical research, confining their "research" to the retailers sites & price comparisons.

You are letting your participation in the DS forums blinker you to what constitutes the "average user", or "most users". Whatever we may think about features/lack of them/useability etc., DS Members & their views will, most definitely, be a small minority of the overall user base of this product.

Rgds.


Les.

The trouble is if you post daft (or ironic, if you will) questions you are likely to get a straight answers from anyone who is just skimming posts and hasn't read every one of your previous, carefully crafted, responses.

I've read dafter questions than yours posted quite seriously.

1) don't just skim if you are then going to respond out of context (I did actually answer my own question regarding non-pvrs, which you even included in the quote). But you missed the next paragraphs of 'daft' questions relating to the pvr.

2) don't just skim and miss that it's not all of my previous responses (there was just the one) I was referring to, it's actually mostly White-Knight's posts that bash Humax for implementing the freesat spec (but there are others too who seem to miss that freesat is not just the name of a service but more importantly is a semi-commercial organisation who, like Sky, control what is done in their name.)

I sorry, have to disagree with you here. Having loooked at many web sites, Argos, Currys etc, no mention is made of the Non Freesat Mode.

As you say, the Humax site has an abridged spec and doesn't mention Non Freesat. That to me suggests it is not a selling point, just a bonus for the more enthusiastic user. Most will buy it purely for Freesat. Thats how its labelled and advertised. It is fit for its purpose

Savvy is spot on with
I would think Humax would be breaking the Freesat+ conditions if they incorporated any non freesat into Freesat.

Hey, why not just lighten up a bit?

Les my point is if its in the specification it should be usable and quite a few people did choose the Humax because of its additional non freesat mode.

S14 of the Sale of Goods Act requires that the goods be fit for all the common purposes for which they are supplied.

How can you say that the Humax is fit for the purpose of Non Freesat use when switching between Freesat and Non Freesat mode erases all Freesat timers?

How can it be fit for purpose as a pvr when there's no way to schedule a recording in its specified non Freesat mode?

Non Freesat mode is in the specification and as such it should be implemented in such a way as to comply with the fitness for purpose requirements. Somehow, given the current problems in using the mode, and how it destroys the Freesat timers and doesn't allow the setting of timers in non Freesat mode, I doubt that is the case.

I think this is the nub of our debate, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with some of the points about useability, although I will comment on a couple of items further down for clarity.

I posted (apart from my early posts in this thread, which are the only ones to actually help the OP do what he wanted - add Sky News), in response to you saying "most users.........". I still assert that most users did not choose or buy it for non-freesat. There will be a number of "enthusiasts" that did take this into account beforehand, and there will be a number of users who have become interested afterwards, since finding this facility in the specs or by experimenting with a manual tune, etc. This does not make non-freesat a major decision factor in choosing to buy the product for "most users". I think I've done this to death, now, "most posters" will recognise the point I was trying to make

Just a slight clarification (maybe for others reading this), switching between the two modes does not erase timers. Manual Tune, deleting, adding, sorting, renaming, non-freesat channels will. Once this has been done, switching is OK.

This is interesting, Wikipedia defines a PVR as "A digital video recorder (DVR) or personal video recorder (PVR) is a device that records video in a digital format to a disk drive or other memory medium within a device." The HDR will certainly do this in non-freesat mode. The Freesat+ specs go further in what the box has to do re scheduled recordings and more, but that is Freesat.

This will be open to interpretation, and would need to be tested under due legal process.

We are way off topic now, the OP has had his question answered on how to add & view Sky News. If the non-freesat debate continues, I've had my say on the point I wished to make, and will probably bow out.

Rgds.


Les.
Last edited by savvy : 29-07-2009 at 11:21