Because that is not true. Scanning in non-freesat mode causes the timers to be dropped, but once scanned you can swap back and forth without losing your timers (but it won't record freesat when it's not being a freesat pvr).


Because it's a freesat pvr, and the non-freesat epg is called Sky.



There is no epg to set timers against in non-freesat mode. Without an epg the box just lets you record what is being shown (which then locks it as a non-freesat fta box). That makes it a very basic non-freesat pvr, but it's not why I nor (I suspect) the vast majority of people bought it (and I haven't used it apart from recording some unencrypted BBC HD to play with).

Just think of it as two STBs in one box. It can be one or the other, but not both at the same time. But don't confuse non-freesat with Sky, and don't blame Humax for the freesat specification - only the implemented of it.

i must say i was pleasantly surprised with the "extra" channels on the Humax - although i only look at them occasionally. I looked at freesat reviews beforehand, and was aware that the non-freesat channels couldnt be tuned in on bush/grundig etc.

I has sky before, but i wanted the HD options and have been very pleased

Not on either of my boxes. I regularly lose all scheduled recordings just by switching modes.



Show me where that is in the specs? From day 1 it was a PVR with non freesat recording and DISCEQ listed in its features. No where did they specify that there were restrictions on its usage as non freesat recorder and the inability to set a timer is a pretty big restriction on a recording device.



..and that's it fails to meet its basic obligations as a PVR against its specifications. The man on the clapham ominibus would expect a pvr to be able to schedule recordings not to have to stay in and press the button and when testing if an expectation is reasonable or not its the man on the clapham omnibus against which the courts set the test.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to start suing Humax. I'm just pointing out that a PVR that supports a non Freesat mode, should have a means of scheduling recordings and should be able to be switched between modes (even have channels scans) without wiping out all the timers.

Without that, I believe both myself and others have the right to feel cheated as the box doesn't do what you were reasonably led to believe it would do. I bought my box specifically with multi sat in mind as well as non freesat usage on 28.2e but non Freesat mode is such a pain in wiping out things it shouldn't never mind the inability to set timers, I now use Freesat mode only and have scrapped any intention currently of getting a multiarm set up on my dish, which was why I bought a large dish in the 1st place.

White-Knight,

I think you should get off the Clapham omnibus and rejoin the rest of us in the real world as that man is leading you astray.

Firstly, if your unit is losing freesat timers when switching to/from non-freesat mode (and you have changed nothing else in the menus whilst in non-freesat mode) then you have a faulty box. Mine certainly retains timers (I went and had a play just to make sure), and I don’t remember anyone else reporting it as an issue. A factory reset may be in order; you have nothing to lose as your timers have already gone.

As for the rest of it, we are discussing, in a freesat+ forum, a box with a freesat+ logo in the bottom lefthand corner of the front flap that came in a box splattered with freesat+ logos. It was designed and built to the specification of the freesat+ service developed, monitored and publicised by Freesat (UK) Ltd. You'll find the box in stores under a big sign saying freesat. Search the internet for freesat and see how many references you get to foxsat-HD or foxsat-HDR. Do the reverse and search for foxsat-HDR and see if you can find ANY that don’t also refer to freesat(+). When you first turn on the box and start the tuning it automatically tunes to the freesat nominated channel line-up by default – not even an option that you have to select. In the menu it says it’s in freesat mode and you have to change it to non-freesat mode to access the other channels. There is no simple, single button press to switch between the two modes that might make it look like it is supposed to be regularly used in either mode. I'm sure there are loads of other examples I could cite that cannot leave anyone other than you (and the chap on the Clapham omnibus) under the illusion that this is anything other than a freesat pvr that has the ability to do some extra things.

Buy an iCord or similar if you really want to multi-satellite as your normal watching mode, don’t blame freesat (or Humax) that freesat doesn’t support the functionality you want.

On the other hand, please do try and find a lawyer that will agree with you and help sue Humax for producing a pvr that meets the freesat spec and having it known as a freesat pvr. It would be fascinating to follow, and maybe we could jump in the class action if it looks like succeeding.

I have an idea, White-Knight, why don't you create your own specification, and broadcast an EPG on Astra2/Eurobird1 that covers all the channels you want to record then get some one to manufacture boxes that look at your EPG, then the problem is solved.

Otherwise, go out and purchase a FTA pvr that has no links with freesat, you won't get an EPG but you might be able to launch timed recordings, problem solved, unfortunately, the FOXSAT HDR doesn't have a manual timer option, I guess this is not allowed to be implemented anywhere in this receiver thanks to the freesat specification, otherwise I can imagine it would be there.

Is there a non freesat version of this box sold anywhere?

Edit, there's one on the HUMAX site which has all the functionality of the FOXSAT-HDR but it's call the ICORD, I guess you want that box....

Good grief, what a rant!

You reall do need to lighten up.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that if a box indicates that it supports a particular mode and even goes to the trouble to include a facility (DISCEQ) that is only relevant if using that mode that a user should expect it to work properly in that mode?

If Humax want to sell a box with dual mode then they should make sure it works properly in either mode without detracting from the functionality of the other. End of story.

Ah, so you're the chap on the Clapham omnibus. All is now clear.

Sorry, but I'm on that omnibus too with this! Tern is quite right, I think it is a fair comment that if you add a mode make sure it is working properly or else many people will be disappointed when they find out the non Freesat mode is rubbish. Because of the issues I also don't use the non freesat mode as it is far more trouble than it's worth.

..and yes I know it's a Freesat box...

Patrick

I'll tell you another collection of people who are, metaphorically, on the Clapham omnibus, Panman: The British legal community.

If a product is sold as being able to perform some function then it must perform that function or it is not 'fit for purpose'.

And all your ranting and raving at people who expect to get what they paid for working correctly will not change that.

Right, got it. You're on the wrong bus, you want the one to Bedlam not Clapham.

That's the one for those people who are not looking for a simple-to-use digital alternative to their plain ordinary analogue service in preparation for DSO. That being the intention of Freesat specifying freesat.

The bus you want is for the technically minded who want to scan multiple satellites, play with the technology, record so much they can never watch it, get HD that is not encrypted and learn foreign languages by studying broadcasts from other countries.

I can't believe you bought a freeview pvr just for ITV red button HD, 'cos that's the only extra you get (program wise).

I bought the Humax purely for Freesat. I have no interest in the non Freesat mode.

I would still argue that your bullying and belligerent attitude to people who simply want their box to do what it is advertised to do is both arrogant and offensive (not to mention rather childish).


BTW, did you once post under the name 'son_t'?

IIRC he came from Fife and he certainly had a devotion to Humax that bordered on the fanatical.

I wonder if his real name is Victor Meldrew..


Patrick

That bus will be on one of these routes then
194, 358, 119, 494 & 198

That's the problem with people who keep contradicting themselves. The Humax box does exactly what it says - it implements the freesat spec. There may be some issues in the way it's implemented, but to keep knocking Humax is just wrong.

And since when is putting forward a point of view, without resorting to personal abuse, 'arrogant and offensive'? It seems to me that you have been pulled up a number of times on other threads due to your own attitude and poor choice of language, so I think you should look to get your own house in order before you try to preach to others. Using this type of finger pointing to cover your own inadequacies just does not work.

What I find really offensive is that you have the audacity to suggest that I masquerade under multiple names on this forum. It may come as a surprise to you, but there are actually quite a few people living in Fife, and some have difficulty in receiving freeview due to the odd hill and poor repeaters (a problem by no means unique to Fife). Some of us need a freesat service, and until recently the foxsat was the only way to get it without resorting to paying Sky in addition to having already paid a TV licence.

Nah, that's my brother.

My wife is Victoria though.

I really don't know why you have such a problem understanding the concept that a product should do everything that is claimed for it.

Just because it has 'Freesat' on the box does not give Humax a 'get out of jail free' card for failing to correctly implement any other features they specify it will perform.

It's clear that that is your opinion but it is at odds with many others and, more importantly, it is at odds with the law of the land.


When it's accompanied by the kind of sarcasm you directed to White Knight simply because he wants his box to behave in a reasonable manner.


It was only a question. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

Just to try and help you understand why your position seems a little odd - to say the least.

Suppose you bought a car and it said on the brochure: "It's a car. It get's you from A to B. It also has a CD player."

You get in your car and start to drive home. You turn the CD player on and the engine cuts out. This happens repeatedly.

Would you say that the car manufacturer had done an acceptable job?

So if a manufacturer were to sell a car as a "town car" and it implements all the specifications expected of a town car, the fact that it can't reach more than 30mph despite 110mph being in the specification is acceptable because its primary use is in town right?

And if it specified heated seats but they didn't heat to more than 1 degree above normal cabin temperature, that too is acceptable because they still heat despite the fact that they're useless and its not how people would commonly understand a heated seat to perform.

C'mon.

Imagine if you bought a car and you found out you had to give a lift to Tern, White-Knight and Panman1300 all at the same time

With Gaseous Clay (at his most gaseous ) as the back seat driver.

Nah we'd be alright. Don't know about the Sky users in the boot though.

Oooh, I do like an analogy. So "Town Car" = Freesat (UK) Ltd definition of what is wanted, and Humax have developed towncar? And you imply that the "Town Car" spec calls for 30 mph as the max?

But you now suggest that the Humax spec for their towncar also indicates that if you make some adjustments that stops it being a towncar it will then do 110 mph, which you are claiming it does not do?

Am I with you so far?

If so, then I think your analogy breaks down at that point, as I don't think the foxsat claims to be a sportscar in it's other mode.

I see it that if you pull a lever in the back, the seats move to allow more space to carry objects (ie. it becomes a bit more versatile). It's not as good as an estate or even a proper hatchback ('cos things still have go in via the two doors). A van would be even better, or even a lorry. But you can do some extra things (do a big shopping trip?) that you can't do when it's a towncar. Having seen the possibilities you might decide to go buy a vehicle more suitable to this additional need, returning the towncar to being just that (because the others are useless at being a towncar).

It's all in your expectations. I would not want towncar to suffer to make it too flexible, but the flexibility may be useful on rare occasions. It's in the towncar spec, and it does it, but it might not do it the way you want it to. That makes it unsuitable for you, but not necessarily a bad product for others.

And any day now there will be an update to the engine management system that means it will accelerate faster and be more fuel efficient. It's just in its final stages of testing and the reports from the Stig are good ....

Here you go ...

Panman, you can play word games all you like.

The fact is that the law requires that a product be fit for the purpose for which is what designed for (that includes all its common purposes not just its main one) and in assessing its fitness for purpose they're going to look at its usability through a test of reasonableness. Asking is it reasonable to expect someone to have to stay in and record a programme by hand when they've bought a recorder (a video recorders primary purpose is to record programmes when you're not available to watch them), because there isn't a means of doing a timed recording for one of the devices main features, I doubt they'd say yes. Its clearly fit for its purpose as a Freesat recorder but when used as a non freesat recorder, I doubt that it is the case and considering its specc'ed as a non freesat recorder, in my opinion, anyone buying it for that purpose would have every right to claim it didn't meet its obligations.

Easy, now. Less of that negativity. (It'll only get you into trouble on this forum. )

Repeat after me. ........

Fressat is good.
Freesat is farrrrrrr better than other services.
Other services show mainly repeats.
Other services are for ***** (Insert your favorite derogatory term).

My Humax is good.
My Humax PVR is farrrrrrr better than any other PVR.
My Humax PVR has no issues, at all, at all.
Any problems with my Humax PVR is because I can't use it properly.