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Old 06-08-2009, 00:54
Lime Green
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We have a fairly new loo (installed last April) with a push button flush which has stopped flushing when you push the button. The button feels looser than usual, like there is no resistance behind it and water is not coming down the pan properly, just small trickles. The flush is on the front of the cistern, where you'd find a traditional flush, not on the top, if that makes any difference to the repair.

Anyway, I'd like to know what it is I need to replace, and is it a job for me, or should I call out a man. And do I need to go to a plumbers merchant to buy the bit, or can I get it off the shelf in Homebase? And is there an idiot's guide on how to do it on the net somewhere? Preferably with pictures.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:50
seacam
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We have a fairly new loo (installed last April) with a push button flush which has stopped flushing when you push the button. The button feels looser than usual, like there is no resistance behind it and water is not coming down the pan properly, just small trickles. The flush is on the front of the cistern, where you'd find a traditional flush, not on the top, if that makes any difference to the repair.

Anyway, I'd like to know what it is I need to replace, and is it a job for me, or should I call out a man. And do I need to go to a plumbers merchant to buy the bit, or can I get it off the shelf in Homebase? And is there an idiot's guide on how to do it on the net somewhere? Preferably with pictures.
Hello Lime Green,

Is it a square push button you have on the front of the cistern?
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:55
Lime Green
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Not square as such, it's curved at the edges and has a flat top and bottom and is quite small.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:08
Lime Green
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__
(_) that sort of shape, and about big enough for the pad of your thumb to press
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:36
ninjakev
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We had one of those in our previous house - if your's is the same it may have a piece of clear plastic tubing on the back of the button which when you press the button increases air pressure in the piping which acts on a piston/diaphragm thingy to flush the toilet. The tubing was forever coming off ours - that may be your problem.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:14
ninjakev
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Adding to my post above, it could be the float has stuck in the "empty" position and not allowing your cistern to fill. Take the top off the cistern and give the float a wiggle. Some floats have a vertical runner to keep them in position and this can be a cause of them jamming.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:34
Lime Green
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Thanks ninjakev, I'll have a look, and a jiggle.

Seacam, thanks for turning up, I was hoping you might. I can make it flush by repeatedly pushing on the button, but this is definitely not an ideal solution, and I'm sure all this hammering on the button is only going to hasten its demise.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:38
mirandashell
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It does sound like something has come undone or loose. Especially as there is no resistance behind the button. Take the cistern lid off and have a look.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:58
seacam
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Thanks ninjakev, I'll have a look, and a jiggle.

Seacam, thanks for turning up, I was hoping you might. I can make it flush by repeatedly pushing on the button, but this is definitely not an ideal solution, and I'm sure all this hammering on the button is only going to hasten its demise.
Hi Lime and thanks,

Depending on the mechanism I think Ninjakev has answered the question.

It could be the tube or the float.

You might also have a flapper and chain mechanism, take a look, let us know.
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Old 06-08-2009, 13:19
woodbush
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I know seacam is the main man but does this diagram help.

http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/pdfs/03/p4760003.pdf
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Old 06-08-2009, 15:12
Lime Green
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http://yfrog.com/7htoilet004j is the back of the flush
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Old 06-08-2009, 15:21
Lime Green
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http://yfrog.com/05toilet003j is where the tube goes to

http://yfrog.com/05toilet002j is what you can see of the flush mechanism when you look at the toilet tank. As you can see, it is really close to the fitted shelf, not much wiggle room there.

http://yfrog.com/5ftoilet008j is taken with a mirror to show more of the mechanism.

I pushed the clear tube firmly into the back of the button and also onto the other end. It still feels a bit slack, but will flush after a few tries.

I hope these photos help with your diagnosis, Seacam. Taking the fitted shelf off would be a major job, as it runs right round the wall and has the basin fitted into it too and is sealed onto the splashback. If I have to take that off I might very likely cry.
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Old 06-08-2009, 15:32
seacam
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http://yfrog.com/05toilet003j is where the tube goes to

http://yfrog.com/05toilet002j is what you can see of the flush mechanism when you look at the toilet tank. As you can see, it is really close to the fitted shelf, not much wiggle room there.

http://yfrog.com/5ftoilet008j is taken with a mirror to show more of the mechanism.

I pushed the clear tube firmly into the back of the button and also onto the other end. It still feels a bit slack, but will flush after a few tries.

I hope these photos help with your diagnosis, Seacam. Taking the fitted shelf off would be a major job, as it runs right round the wall and has the basin fitted into it too and is sealed onto the splashback. If I have to take that off I might very likely cry.
Agh, syphonic mechanisms.

Great photos Lime, it does help, step back a few feet, take a photo of the shelf, pan and cistern.

I am wondering if the float is rising high enough.
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Old 06-08-2009, 16:37
Lime Green
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Right ho, will do after DD has vacated the bathroom and stopped primping for this evening.
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Old 06-08-2009, 16:57
Lime Green
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http://yfrog.com/03toilet010j Does that show you enough, Seacam? Thanks so much for taking the time to help.
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Old 06-08-2009, 17:01
Smiley433
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Looks similar to mine, works off air pressure when you press the button.

Mine stopped working not long after I moved in and found that the "bellows" (or just a rubber bag) had perished a bit and there was a leak. So no air pressure built up when the button was pressed and nothing happened. Stuck some duck tape round the rubber (not so much that it stopped the bellows from flexing) and it's been fine ever since.

If you are getting some water through when you push the button, sounds like either there isn't enough pressure being built up when the button is pressed, or there is something physically stopping the mechanism from fully tripping and emptying the tank into the bowl.
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Old 06-08-2009, 17:58
seacam
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http://yfrog.com/03toilet010j Does that show you enough, Seacam? Thanks so much for taking the time to help.
I think what you have there Lime is a Grohe Cistern setup but there are other makes.

The bad news is you may well have to take the shelf off.

The good news is once done the type of fault you describe is not to hard to fix for a reasonable DIYer.

If you take the tube and blow down it, will it flush normally.

There are two known common faults on this kind of setup, the return spring on the button and/or the bellows because of a leak doesn't fill to activate the valve.

Either or both will need replacing, a temporary fix might be possible.
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Old 06-08-2009, 19:27
ninjakev
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Just a thought.......if you only had it installed in April, could you contact the installer and ask them to repair it under warranty?
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Old 06-08-2009, 19:40
Lime Green
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Just a thought.......if you only had it installed in April, could you contact the installer and ask them to repair it under warranty?
Not this April, alas, but last April. And the contractor bodged the shower and the window and we are not now on speaking terms.
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Old 06-08-2009, 19:47
Lime Green
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I think what you have there Lime is a Grohe Cistern setup but there are other makes.

The bad news is you may well have to take the shelf off.

The good news is once done the type of fault you describe is not to hard to fix for a reasonable DIYer.

If you take the tube and blow down it, will it flush normally.

There are two known common faults on this kind of setup, the return spring on the button and/or the bellows because of a leak doesn't fill to activate the valve.

Either or both will need replacing, a temporary fix might be possible.
Yes, it is Grohe, says so on the plastic lid of the toilet tank, should have noticed that sooner would have saved you trouble (sorry).

The bad news is very bad... not the shelf, please not the shelf! It's about the one thing in the bathroom remodel we were happy with.

A reasonable DIYer Flattery will get you everywhere, young man!

Blow down it!!! Geez, I was hoping for dinner and a show first. Plus eeew, OCD girl here is having the vapours. I'll get back to you on that. Stiff drink required first I think.
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Old 06-08-2009, 20:01
Lime Green
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Okay, have had a swift stiffner of G&T and swabbed the tube with neat gin and blown into it, and have succeeded in making the loo flush, took a fair amount of puff, but I am asthmatic and a feeble girlie to boot, so make of that what you will. It did flush properly once it had started, not the slosh, slosh, slosh, flush thing it was doing with the button push.

Please tell me that is the easy fix, and not the tear the bathroom to pieces fix.
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Old 06-08-2009, 20:17
seacam
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Yes, it is Grohe, says so on the plastic lid of the toilet tank, should have noticed that sooner would have saved you trouble (sorry).

The bad news is very bad... not the shelf, please not the shelf! It's about the one thing in the bathroom remodel we were happy with.

A reasonable DIYer Flattery will get you everywhere, young man!

Blow down it!!! Geez, I was hoping for dinner and a show first. Plus eeew, OCD girl here is having the vapours. I'll get back to you on that. Stiff drink required first I think.
Hi Lime,

No worries I have to second guess lots of people with various degrees of success , and with out photos.

Well some more good news ------maybe,---- Grohe guarantee their units for five years,-----well at least they did and they have been known to come out and fix.

Bad news, shelf may still have to come off.

If you need their phone number let me know.

My favorite second guess thread, another forum,

"Hi seacam, I broke my landlords kitchen light and she says I must replace it with the same kind, what make is it" ?
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Old 06-08-2009, 20:24
bigbruvvaluvvau
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I had this EXACT problem, except I got my toilet last May. I popped off the top and after lots of looking around I found the problem was the gauge had just got stuck, so after I flushed it wasnt registering the tank was empty and not refilling. I literally gave it a push and the water came flooding in instantly and its been fine for 4 months.
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Old 06-08-2009, 20:30
Lime Green
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I had this EXACT problem, except I got my toilet last May. I popped off the top and after lots of looking around I found the problem was the gauge had just got stuck, so after I flushed it wasnt registering the tank was empty and not refilling. I literally gave it a push and the water came flooding in instantly and its been fine for 4 months.
I wish it was that simple, but I know it is filling up, I can hear the water flowing back into the tank.
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Old 06-08-2009, 20:34
Lime Green
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Oh noes, not the shelf!

Grohe's number might be very useful thanks, I would like it.

So, after my efforts with the tube, is it the button, or something inside the tank, do you think?
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