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UEFA Europa League
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Mark.
16-09-2011
Originally Posted by PhilH36:
“If they put a match on ESPN classic,it would be available to non-ESPN subscribers who take the news mix. Not sure if that would have any influence on things.”

I'm not sure that would be a problem; if Birmingham are so far down the pecking order, I doubt ESPN will care people with only a basic subscription can see it.
RobinCarmody
16-09-2011
Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“Have you seen the team Spurs have been putting out for the Europa League?”

I know what you mean, and I know that Irish players might raise their game against an English club even if they've been squarely beaten at home by a Russian side, but I still think Spurs will win.

Quote:
“When it comes to a channel's pick they are always going to go for the highest rated English club (if available for their time window) regardless of the opposition.”

Indeed, that's why I said that I know why Five are showing them. In the context of a commercial channel and the broader mass-media context of Patting Our Little Neighbours On The Back, I don't think Five *shouldn't* show them. I just don't think it's going to be much of a game, that's all.

But I also agree that even if ESPN2 isn't sustainable yet, ESPN should use their other channels for live football from time to time, perhaps if there's a big Bundesliga match on a Friday night when they've got a rugby match on. Do they intend to show an 8pm kick-off without British representation?
Jamesp84
16-09-2011
I could be wrong, but I think ESPN America is a Europe-wide channel, with no regional variations, so I don't think ESPN UK could put their own content on there even if they wanted to.
ariusuk
17-09-2011
Originally Posted by RobinCarmody:
“Do they intend to show an 8pm kick-off without British representation?”

I believe they have to show one match in each timeslot.
chrisfinch
17-09-2011
Originally Posted by The Difference:
“Failing that, should it come down to a (ROI) rights issue or ESPN's unwillingness to do this, perhaps on this occasion the sixth pick could default over to ITV who may put a further game on ITV3? I remember them using ITV3 for a Wales Rugby World Cup game four years ago when they were showing a UEFA Cup game on ITV4.”

I doubt it. There have been a few Sundays this year when sporting 'events' such as the IPL or Vuelta have been dumped online rather than ITV3 when the BTCC has taken precedence on ITV4. Now I know football is in a different league to these other sports for ITV, but even still it'd be unlikely.

Originally Posted by PhilH36:
“If they put a match on ESPN classic,it would be available to non-ESPN subscribers who take the news mix. Not sure if that would have any influence on things.”

I just don't think they will full stop. There have been enough opportunities over the last couple of years when there have been pretty big clashes for ESPN, and not once have they used ESPN Classic. I don't think it's a bad idea, lots of promotion for the channel etc. while you are watching the 'freeview' on Classic, but if they haven't done so yet, I don't see why this would be any different.

Slightly odd question-does anyone know who was in charge of doing the HB for the Shamrock game on Thursday night? Cos Setanta have the rights over there, and they didn't show them. Unless RTE have a game a week, but I didn't think they did?
KarlHyde
17-09-2011
TV3 have first pick in Ireland. Last season they had all of Liverpool's matches on 3e but the Shamrock match was on the main channel.

As for ESPN: Would they be allowed to show delayed coverage of Maribor v Birmingham in the 8pm slot? And would this get higher ratings than, say, Bilbao v PSG?
KarlHyde
17-09-2011
Originally Posted by Jamesp84:
“I could be wrong, but I think ESPN America is a Europe-wide channel, with no regional variations, so I don't think ESPN UK could put their own content on there even if they wanted to.”

According to Wikipedia, there are three different versions of ESPN America but the UK version is also distributed in Scandinavia, Switzerland, and Spain. Of course, ESPN don't have Europa League rights for these countries. Technically, it should be possible to black out the channel for two hours - but I don't think they will take the trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN_America
chrisfinch
17-09-2011
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“TV3 have first pick in Ireland. Last season they had all of Liverpool's matches on 3e but the Shamrock match was on the main channel.

As for ESPN: Would they be allowed to show delayed coverage of Maribor v Birmingham in the 8pm slot? And would this get higher ratings than, say, Bilbao v PSG?”

Ah gotcha, thanks. Showing the Blues match delayed is not a bad idea actually. Whether they'd do it or not is another question, but it makes sense.
KarlHyde
20-09-2011
ESPN has Celtic v Udinese and Bilbao v PSG listed as live fixtures. No sign of Birmingham on the other ESPN channels.

http://tv.espn.co.uk/gb/espl/live-fixtures-on-espn/
Judio
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“ESPN has Celtic v Udinese and Bilbao v PSG listed as live fixtures. No sign of Birmingham on the other ESPN channels.

http://tv.espn.co.uk/gb/espl/live-fixtures-on-espn/”

Only TWO of the six o clock games are shown

This week 3 British clubs play at 6

Last week it was only two

So Birmingham miss out
LOSG
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by Judio:
“Only TWO of the six o clock games are shown

This week 3 British clubs play at 6

Last week it was only two

So Birmingham miss out”

But ESPN can show more 6 oclocks or 8 oclocks for that matter should they wish.
KarlHyde
20-09-2011
What would have happened if Birmingham played at home? With the centralised marketing of TV rights in place, I reckon there must be some sort of contractual obligation for british broadcasters to produce TV signals of every home match.

On matchday 4, all three clubs have home matches at the same time but there shouldn't be a problem with TV coverage because it's the 8pm slot - and Channel 5 is unlikely to opt for the Tottenham match in Russia at 5pm.
ariusuk
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“What would have happened if Birmingham played at home? With the centralised marketing of TV rights in place, I reckon there must be some sort of contractual obligation for british broadcasters to produce TV signals of every home match.”

ESPN has to cover any home matches not shown on TV in the UK for foreign broadcasters.
KarlHyde
20-09-2011
Ah, thanks.
LOSG
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by ariusuk:
“ESPN has to cover any home matches not shown on TV in the UK for foreign broadcasters.”

Thats interesting, how would this have worked had they not picked up the setanta rights?
wolvesdavid
20-09-2011
5 ganes involving British clubs and 5 games for TV. Yet not all of them are shown and instead we get a game that hardly anyone will be interested in.

One word: pathetic.
Mark.
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by wolvesdavid:
“5 ganes involving British clubs and 5 games for TV. Yet not all of them are shown and instead we get a game that hardly anyone will be interested in. ”

So what are ESPN supposed to do: get on the phone to UEFA and ask them to shift the Birmingham game to a later kick-off?
wolvesdavid
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“So what are ESPN supposed to do: get on the phone to UEFA and ask them to shift the Birmingham game to a later kick-off?”

You know and I know its pathetic and a lot of people will not understand how the Birmingham match will not be shown and another match will be.

The things that could be done are: either show the match on ESPN America or ESPN classic (if ESPN have the rights) or ITV3 (if ITV have the rights.)

But its also all to do with the centralised kickoffs, and the way the rights are sold by UEFA.
wolvesdavid
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“So what are ESPN supposed to do: get on the phone to UEFA and ask them to shift the Birmingham game to a later kick-off?”

I don't think your so far off the mark with that comment said in jest. We know the kickoff time won't be shifted by UEFA, but I don't see what is wrong with having kickoff times moved to suit TV.
ariusuk
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by LOSG:
“Thats interesting, how would this have worked had they not picked up the setanta rights?”

Setanta had the same obligation, and anyone who picked up the rights would be in that position.

Originally Posted by wolvesdavid:
“You know and I know its pathetic and a lot of people will not understand how the Birmingham match will not be shown and another match will be.

The things that could be done are: either show the match on ESPN America or ESPN classic (if ESPN have the rights) or ITV3 (if ITV have the rights.) ”

It's an ESPN game. And I'm sure they will show it somewhere.
LOSG
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by ariusuk:
“Setanta had the same obligation, and anyone who picked up the rights would be in that position.


”

Sorry I should have explained myself better, I meant had no one picked up Setantas rights, what would have happened then? Would the responsibly have moved on to ITV
KarlHyde
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by wolvesdavid:
“but I don't see what is wrong with having kickoff times moved to suit TV.”

But you do know that this an away game for Birmingham? There's also an opponent in this match, namely Maribor. The club and the Slovenian broadcaster have of course made arrangements for the match to kick off at 19:00 CET. Now you could argue that England is a much bigger TV market than Slovenia but let's face it: This is only the 5th pick match for British broadcasters but the only Slovenian club that's left in European competitions.

Apart from that, I've always been against centralised marketing for UEFA Cup a.k.a. Europa League. There's just too many disadvantages to it. In most countries, at least one of the two time slots is unpopular. In the UK and Portugal, 6pm is too early. In eastern Europe, 22:05 local time is too late, especially in winter. And in Germany, for example, neither 19:00 nor 21:05 CET is ideal because fans and TV viewers are used to kick-off times at around 20:30.

And what's more, there's just not enough pan-European interest in the competition as a whole to justify centralised marketing. It would only work out if TV stations in many countries wanted to show a large number of matches - even if there aren't any clubs from their own nation left in the competition. But this doesn't seem to be the case. The main channels in larger markets tend to avoid the Europa League, and UEFA have significant problems to sell the rights.

In Germany, there will be only one game per matchday on FTA television from 2012, and this 1st pick package hasn't even been sold yet. RTL, the market leader, simply won't bother. SAT.1 (the current broadcaster) has lost the CL rights, so the EL won't make sense for them as a standalone product (they've already pushed off this year's group matches to their smaller sister channel Kabel 1). ZDF will have the CL next year, so they don't need the tatty Europa League. This leaves only ARD and Sport 1 as potential buyers for the rights. Sport 1 is short of cash, so they can't pay much. ARD, being a public broadcaster, could splash out but the EL matches don't fit into their schedule which is centered around the news at 20:00 and primetime programming at 20:15 CET. And it has to be said that Germany (along with Britain) has been one of the few countries where UEFA earned a decent amount of money for the 2009-12 period.

Financially, the new competition format is likely to become a total failure.
ariusuk
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by LOSG:
“Sorry I should have explained myself better, I meant had no one picked up Setantas rights, what would have happened then? Would the responsibly have moved on to ITV”

There was never any danger of nobody picking up the rights.
The Wanderer
20-09-2011
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“But you do know that this an away game for Birmingham? There's also an opponent in this match, namely Maribor. The club and the Slovenian broadcaster have of course made arrangements for the match to kick off at 19:00 CET. Now you could argue that England is a much bigger TV market than Slovenia but let's face it: This is only the 5th pick match for British broadcasters but the only Slovenian club that's left in European competitions.

Apart from that, I've always been against centralised marketing for UEFA Cup a.k.a. Europa League. There's just too many disadvantages to it. In most countries, at least one of the two time slots is unpopular. In the UK and Portugal, 6pm is too early. In eastern Europe, 22:05 local time is too late, especially in winter. And in Germany, for example, neither 19:00 nor 21:05 CET is ideal because fans and TV viewers are used to kick-off times at around 20:30.

And what's more, there's just not enough pan-European interest in the competition as a whole to justify centralised marketing. It would only work out if TV stations in many countries wanted to show a large number of matches - even if there aren't any clubs from their own nation left in the competition. But this doesn't seem to be the case. The main channels in larger markets tend to avoid the Europa League, and UEFA have significant problems to sell the rights.

In Germany, there will be only one game per matchday on FTA television from 2012, and this 1st pick package hasn't even been sold yet. RTL, the market leader, simply won't bother. SAT.1 (the current broadcaster) has lost the CL rights, so the EL won't make sense for them as a standalone product (they've already pushed off this year's group matches to their smaller sister channel Kabel 1). ZDF will have the CL next year, so they don't need the tatty Europa League. This leaves only ARD and Sport 1 as potential buyers for the rights. Sport 1 is short of cash, so they can't pay much. ARD, being a public broadcaster, could splash out but the EL matches don't fit into their schedule which is centered around the news at 20:00 and primetime programming at 20:15 CET. And it has to be said that Germany (along with Britain) has been one of the few countries where UEFA earned a decent amount of money for the 2009-12 period.

Financially, the new competition format is likely to become a total failure.”

Personally I welcomed the centralised marketing deal, as someone whose team played in the UEFA Cup a couple of years and was unable to see arguably two of the club's most memorable results in recent years anything which reduces the chance of that happening can only be a good thing

What would be better though IMO is purely deciding kickoff times by location ie all games inthe UK/Ireland/Portugal esque timezones to kickoff at 20.05, Eastern European games at 6pm and everything in between, well that could be split to balance things out. Not everyone wins and it doesn't solve every problem but no solution will do that
Whoooooooooooo!
22-09-2011
Maribor vs Birmingham is on ESPN Classic (Sky Channel 429) at 17:55 BST
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