A Fulham 20.05 ko might be more attractive than an Everton 18.05 one.

Unless someone else buys the rights which were held by Setanta.

What has happened illustrates why these Europa League rights are not worth very much.

Five are now guaranteed 6 Everton games, some of which will be against very low profile opponents. After that it's pot luck how far Everton go.

The Fulham and Celtic games are not going to attract much of a TV audience across the UK.

But now that Villa are out, ITV4 are going to have to show either Celtic or Fulham (instead of Villa, which I guess was the plan.)

So it remains to be seen if there are any bidders for Setantas rights might BBC Scotland be tempted for Celtics matches?

You'd imagine they're interested this year but with no guarantee of Scottish involvement in future years there could be some complex negotiations.

If no-one else is interested I wouldn't be surprised to see five try to pick up some more rights at bargain basement prices so they can show back-to-back matches.

Although these rights aren't very valuable at the moment from next season that could slowly change with Man City's gradual rise threatening the Big Four.

There's also a greater chance of the club that finishes fourth in the PL ending up in the Europa League than there was of the fourth place club ending up in the UEFA Cup. Earlier in the summer, it looked like there was a fairly decent chance of Arsenal drawing Fiorentina or Atletico Madrid... either of those would have a decent chance of knocking Arsenal out, I reckon (I'd still favor Arsenal, but they'd provide more of a scare than Celtic).

I'd say that there's about a one-in-five or so chance of the fourth-placed PL club ending up in the Europa League group stage.

One of the problems is that English clubs tend not to take it seriously, although the backlash from fans against Gary Megson and Martin O'Neill for effectively giving up might change one or two managers views.

If you look at the seedings below, there's plenty of potential for attractive fixtures. There's also the possibility of Fulham v Celtic.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uef...id=878172.html

Do you think the BBC Scotland may collect Celtic games if not selected by Five or ITV

The rights are centralised, so BBC Scotland would need to bid for a package of picks...but there would then be no guarantee that they would get Celtic, because Five or ITV might take their game.

It would really have a to be a national BBC bid.

Could STV bid for Celtic?

They can't "bid for Celtic".

They need to bid for a package or packages of rights previously held by Setanta. And those rights don't provide teams, they provide picks.

Group C
Hamburg
Celtic
Hapoel Tel-Aviv
Rapid Vienna

Group E
Roma
Basel
Fulham
CSKA Sofia

Group I
Benfica
Everton
AEK Athens
BATE

Arguably Fulham have the most interesting group. Not many stand out ties in other groups, Villarreal v Lazio and Panathinaikos v Galatasary could be half decent fourth picks if anyone picks up those rights.

Does anyone know how the picks are worked out and when?

E.g. Is it stated which days Setanta were meant to have their games?

If so we could face the absurb situation in which ITV on one week have just one game to show (thus Celtic/ Fulham/Everton not televised) and then on another week they are forced to show a game with no British involvement

Channel 5 have first pick each game, and are almost certainly going to pick Everton each and every game until they are knocked out or get to the final.

2nd picks - ITV and Setanta had 7 each. Obviously Setanta going bust sort of means that won't happen now, but I think it would have meant Fulham/Celtic on ITV and Setanta in different weeks. I too would be interested in what weeks were for what TV companies.

3rd picks - ITV had 4, Setanta 8. I guess these were meant for Fulham/Celtic.

4th and 5th picks were obviously if more than 3 British teams had got through (which was easily possible.) I guess now some foreign teams will be shown.

Although if Setanta rights are not brought I assume the TV rights effictively some of ITVs 3rd and 4th picks effictively become 2nd and 3rd picks.

Surely STV/BBC Scotland could purchase a 1st pick package for the Scottish broadcast territory? I bet RTE gets 1st pick of matches for its territory.

If your interpretation of the rules is correct, we could end up in a situation where Celtic matches are broadcast live and free to view for viewers in Ireland but are not available to viewers in Scotland

On another thread this has been dicussed as 2nd picks may have to be 'saved' contractually for the semi-finals. Hence as Setanta (from memory) had 2 semi final games (2 on Five) if no-one buys Setanta's package then ITV may not be able to show it.

Imagine if the semi line up was Roma V Everton and Benfica V Fulham with only one game shown live

The UK is classed as a single broadcast territory, but for the Champions League the "local" broadcaster for Scotland is allowed to make their own pick.

It seems utterly bizarre that UEFA haven't found another broadcast partner to replace Setanta.

Surely not every broadcaster believes the rights to be too expensive, considering the (relatively) minuscule amounts involved?

Thanks for the info. After the recent Champions League disappointment, it looks like us Celtic fans are going to miss out here as well

I think the 4 semi legs were:

Five - 2 (obviously)
ITV4 - 1
Setanta - 1

I think Villa going out puts an end to any prospect of anyone paying more than a nominal fee for Setanta's rights.

I can't imagine anyone now paying what Setanta were contracted to pay.

So I think it will just be a question of whether UEFA will accept a nominal fee (most likely from Five or ITV4) for Setanta's rights.

I think it's a very good point about the possibility of much stronger English teams in the Europa League next year. But at the same time it is far from certain - remember 2 of the 3 places go to the FA Cup and Carling Cup winners so it's very possible to get surprise Cup winners just leaving the team coming 5th in the PL as the only strong team (with Five getting all their games).

So I don't think anyone will factor much extra in on a gamble of stronger teams next year.

Even if it was that a semi final might not be shown.

It does seem strange that no one has replaced Setanta yet for the Europa League.

If Setantas 2nd picks are not shown do UEFA select them? How does it work? Who decides what matches are 2nd picks if the TV companies don't?

Although the Carling Cup can be won by "smaller" teams Pompey are the only non Big Four side to win the FA Cup for some time. Its incredibly early days but 5th and 6th this year look like going to a TV friendly team, plus as leviramsey said 4th place is by no means guaranteed a CL spot anymore.

The only problem is five have first pick. With ITV having most second picks, the gamble is more who the third team will be.

This is all assuming Setanta UK held the rights, of course.

But I would say that stronger teams are almost guaranteed as Tottenham had a bad start to the season last season and recovered to only just miss out on the Europa League by finishing 8th. Not knocking Fulham they did do well to finish 7th, but Tottenham are a more TV friendly team.

There is Manchester City as well with the money and they are not in Europe this year. Add the Big 4, Villa and Everton and there are 8 TV friendly teams competing for 7 places. Of course its not guaranteed that teams go through to the group stage, but I would guess more often than not they will do.

Thursday 17th September2009
Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC - Celtic FC 6pm
CSKA Sofia - Fulham FC 6pm
Everton FC - AEK Athens FC 8.05pm

Thursday 1st October 2009
Celtic FC - Rapid Vienna 8.05pm
Fulham FC - FC Basel 8.05pm
BATE Borisov - Everton FC 6pm

Thursday 22nd October 2009
Celtic FC - Hamburg 8.05pm
Fulham FC - AS Roma 8.05pm
Benfica - Everton FC 6pm

Thursday 5th November 2009
Hamburg - Celtic FC 6pm
Roma - Fulham FC 6pm
Everton FC - Benfica 8.05pm

Wednesday 2nd December 2009
Celtic FC - Hapoel Tel-Aviv 8.05pm
AEK Athens FC - Everton FC 6pm

Thursday 3rd December 2009
Fulham FC - CSKA Sofia 8.05pm

Wednesday 16th December 2009
FC Basel - Fulham FC 6pm

Thursday 17th December 2009
Rapid Vienna - Celtic FC 6pm
Everton FC - FC BATE 8.05pm

Those fixtures could make third choice rights very attractive to five, Celtic and Everton are always back-to-back.

The fixtures also illustrate why the rights aren't worth much.

Everyone plays 3 games at 6pm and 3 games at 8.05pm. So half the matches aren't even fully in prime-time.

But a good chance Five will try and pick up Setanta's rights for a nominal fee so they can have doubleheaders.