Hi All,

Bit confused... Looking at Freesat+ but only have one connection from a dish and thus cannot record (IIRC) which is a bit of a bummer!

But, what I don't understand it how comes my freeview box on a standard aerial can record while I need two connections on freesat? I don't quite understand!

Thanks,
Aaron

As explained in all the previous times this has been asked, satellite has four different signals coming down each cable - TV has only one. So each tuner in a satellite box needs it's own feed to select whichever of the four it wants.

But a Freesat+ will record on a single feed, it's just that the box is somewhat crippled by doing so.

Firstly welcome to the Forum!

One of the regular posters here has made a very useful "clash" detector. It indicates what you can record and watch at the same time with the Humax HDR. In your case select "single feed"http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...&postcount=128
The whole thread is most useful

Nearly right.

The signals from a satellite are transmitted in two bands and with two polarisations.

The satellite receiver has to switch the LNB to one frequency band and one polarisation so that only one of the four combinations is using the cable at a time.

Thus to be sure of being able to watch one channel and record another (or record two simultaneously) you need to use two LNB's with two separate cables. This way, the receiver can switch one LNB to the appropriate combination of band and polarisation for one programme and the other LNB for the other.

Which was what I said, but kept it simple.

No you didn't, Nigel.

I've underlined the part of what you said that is plain wrong.


The receiver sends a signal to the LNB so that it does not send 4 signals down the cable.

For a simple explanation of the difference between Freeview and Freesat, try this:

http://www.nigelwhitfield.com/v2/article.php?id=50

Cherry picking only part of a post often changes it's meaning, you should have underlined another part that you also quoted.

Good grief!

You could start an argument in an empty room.

You said: satellite has four different signals coming down each cable

That is simply and unequivocally wrong.

Cherry picking has nothing to do with it.


Or do you actually believe what I quoted is factually correct?

Here's my 2 pennorth

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...8&postcount=19

I'm not the one cutting small sections out of context to make them read differently.


It has everything to do with it, your selective quote makes it wrong, my entire post makes it right - as I was trying to make it VERY simple for a newcomer to understand. I saw no reason to make it overcomplicated for him, he has no need to know about high/low band or H/V polarity, or tone and voltage switching.


No, quoted on it's own it's not - but as a whole, as simplified for a newcomer, it is correct. Even missing off the comparison to a TV cable, more cherry picking, makes less sense of it.

No, it doesn't, Nigel.

This what you said in it's entirety:


(I'm sticking here with your original use of the term 'signal' although I find that a pretty dubious usage.)

Satellite no more has four signals coming down each cable that does DTT.

I did think you'd probably just expressed yourself very badly but now it appear that you really don't understand.

A Satellite cable does NOT have four signals coming down. It has ONE just as DTT or analogue

So what you said is fundamentally wrong.

Not simplified: wrong.

Deliberately simplified for a newcomer.


Do you have a problem reading the rest of the post?, apparently so - what part of SELECT the one you want couldn't you understand?.

As you seem incapable of reading more than little sections you wish to pick at it's pointless discussing further - feel free to 'have the last word;' as it seems to be your desire in life.

I'm off to the pub - good evening all.

Not simplified: Wrong.

You compared the number of signals coming down a DSAT cable with the number coming down a DTT cable. You said one was four times the other whereas, in fact, they are the same.


I think you must fail to understand how the LNB - Tuner relationship works.

When the tuner want's one band and polarity combination it sends a signal to its attached LNB telling it to select only that combination. The LNB then just sends ONE signal down the cable.

Do you understand now why your statement was not a simplified version of fact but a wholly wrong representation of what is happening?


Nigel, that tactic will only work in the school playground or on idiots.

Do you think anyone here is so dim that they can't see that for the childlike ploy it is?

Nigel and Tern why the hell don't you both take your absolutely pathetic nit-picking elsewhere instead of both of you making total a**eholes of yourselves.

If you believe that telling people satellite cables have four 'signals' coming down them is correct then your knowledge of DSAT technology is obviously as woefully lacking as Nigels.

Correcting blatantly false information is not nit picking.

Neither is trying to get across to someone that what they are calling 'simplification' is nothing of the kind.

Your contribution to this thread is both puerile and unhelpful.

@Tern - For god sake WILL YOU EVER LEARN? You are far too technical for us ordinary Joes - Give us a break! Nigel is trying to explain the situation in layman's terms which we can all understand.

Shadowman, can you not understand that there is a difference between simplifying a concept and providing information that is plainly and absolutely wrong?

Can you not understand that when someone asks why they cannot record any channels they wish with just one connection, telling them that DSat has 4 'signals' coming down the cable does absolutely not answer their question?

Can you not understand that if four signals came down the cable, the obvious solution would be to use a splitter (either externally or simply built into the box) to feed the tuners?

This is not a piece of pointless pedantry.

Do you appreciate that if you claim that you understand what Nigel said: "satellite has four different signals coming down each cable", and understand that in the way any normal person would, then you have fundamentally false knowledge about how DSat operates?


Thus your slightly hysterical intervention was nonsensical. It's not a question of me learning, it's a question of people such as yourself an Nigel learning one of the fundamental principles of DSat (as it affects those who install and use the system) and realising that it is a fundamental principle and not some arcane and esoteric point of interest only to academics.

Further information to clarify this thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

A little unfair.

I don't think Shadowman was trolling.

I just think he was unaware of the significance of telling someone that DSat has four signals coming down each cable when one of the most important fundamentals a newcomer has to get to grips with is that the whole point of needing two cables coming from two seperate LNB's is that all four signals do not come down the cable.

Luckily the rest of us do understand to whom you refer. It's just a shame that the troll keeps feeding on it. Something must make him ill and go and lie down in a dark corner (as long it's not the same one as theShadowman haunts).

This thread has become like one of those jamjars of beer gardeners place near their crops.

I just knew panman would arrive eventually.


Why so coy, pany?

Tell us who you think the troll is:

A poster asks why he need two cables for Freesat and only one for Freeview.

The troll is:

1) The respondant who tells him that is because DSat has 'four signals coming down each cable' and continues to claim that this fundamentally incorrect piece of information is a 'simplification' even though it is quite obvious that it in no way answers theOP's question.

2) The respondant who provides the correct answer and points out that telling someone something that is unequivocally wrong is not a simplification.

I'll be fascinated at which choice you make.

This reminds me of the “lucky I didn’t mention the fork” sketch from Monty Python.

Nobodys answered the question for you really. A foxsat-hdr can record 2 channels at the same time using only 1 connection. On the back of the box there is a tuner 1 out that can be connected to tuner 2 in. This allows the recording of a limited choice of 2nd channels and also viewing of a 3rd channel while recording 2. The second connection removes the restriction on which 2nd channel is recordable. This allows the hdr to be used quite effectively in those circumstances where a 2nd connection is not possible (communal dish).

More details here

http://www.hummy.org.uk/forums/showp...3&postcount=76

Should also point out even with 1 connection you should be able to record 1 channel and watch another provided they fall within the same transmission group. ie. the same band and polarisation.

However for the original poster can appreciate this is all very confusing.

best option is to loop through using the LNB 1 out port to the LNB 2 port and use the box as Graham suggested in the above post or get a cable put up as even in loop through mode the box is still crippled compared to a box with 2 separate feeds.