DS Forums

 
 

quadraphonic sound


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21-08-2009, 14:03
Robert__law
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: DUNDEE
Posts: 1,318

Back in the early 70s quadraphonic sound was a big thing 4 speakers , the problem was there was different systems like VHS and betamax , a simple version "matrix" could take any stereo source and decode it into 4 channel.
recently I got a from EBAY a realistic (Tandy) qutravox 4ch decoder the little box is wired into the speaker terminals and you plug your speakers and ad a rear pair
the result is excellent with sound coming out the rear speakers radio jingles come over very good and classical music is also excellent . I prefer 4 speakers for music than using Dolby pro logic with 7 speakers and boom box this better for TV and DVD any one else into 4ch stereo
Robert__law is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 21-08-2009, 14:49
Deacon1972
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
Not a fan of matrix formats myself - I always play dedicated 2channel music via pure/direct mode - two speakers.

If the system/speakers are set up correctly you don't need additional speakers for stereo.

Multichannel surround is only engaged for dedicated DD/DTS soundtracks.

So long as you enjoy what you are listening to that's all that matters really.
Deacon1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2009, 16:06
clonmult
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3,291
any one else into 4ch stereo
No such thing as 4ch stereo, 4channel is quadrophonic, 2 channel is stereo

I'm in the same boat as deacon - prefer regular stereo sound, but if you like the sound of your setup, then that has to be good!
clonmult is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2009, 16:29
chrisjr
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Reading
Posts: 27,925
No such thing as 4ch stereo, 4channel is quadrophonic, 2 channel is stereo

I'm in the same boat as deacon - prefer regular stereo sound, but if you like the sound of your setup, then that has to be good!
Putting my pedant's hat on for a moment

Stereo is derived from the Greek for Solid. It does not actually refer to a set number of channels. So it is perfectly possible to have four channel stereo.

However common usage has meant that stereo more or less does mean two channels

Pedant's hat off now

This is not a bad bit of bumpf on Stereo...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo

And for a bit of quad nostalgia,,,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadraphonic
chrisjr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2009, 16:41
Chris Frost
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
Back in the early 70s quadraphonic sound was a big thing 4 speakers , the problem was there was different systems like VHS and betamax , a simple version "matrix" could take any stereo source and decode it into 4 channel.
I think your understanding of Quadraphic is a bit off.

Proper quadraphic recordings were made with 4 independant channels. 4 mics is the simplest live recording method. That info was then stored on disc or tape depending on the quad format. Matrixing was used, but not in the way you suggest. It wasn't used to derive extra channels from a stereo recording. What you describe there is a sound processing effect.

AV amps have digital effects that can give sound from 4 speakers when using a stereo source. Your box is no more Quadraphonic than this, sorry.

The closest thing to Quadraphic we have today is multichannel SACD and DVD-A. These both can carry 4 discrete channels of full bandwith audio.

Please don't let any of this spoil your enjoyment of your 4 speaker stereo system. Happy listening.
Chris Frost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2009, 20:33
gomezz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,597
I either play music through a pair of stereo speakers using my hi-fi amp or through my surround sound speakers using my AV amp using 5 channel stereo mode where LF = LB = L; C = L+R; RF=RB=R. This makes more sense for electrified music such as rock than it does for orchestral and chamber music say where the positioning of specific sections / instruments is more critical to recreating a live experience. That said my hi-fi speakers are actually positioned at the other end of the room from the TV and are when watching the Proms on TV are behind me which can make for an interesting experience.
gomezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2009, 01:44
RobAnt
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South West
Posts: 10,218
A pleasant effect can be achieved by using the "Hafler" principle.

That is wiring up two extra speakers (prefereably by using the multi-room posts) out of phase with the front pair - that is red to black, black to red but retaining left/right orientation.

Many early recordings didn't take polarity into account, and by using the Hafler principle you could separate those polarity errors into providing a very open sound, full of depth - rather than the somewhat flat stereo.

Apart from wiring the rear speakers out of phase, no other processing is involved - digital, analogue or otherwise.
RobAnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2009, 13:29
Robert__law
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: DUNDEE
Posts: 1,318
A pleasant effect can be achieved by using the "Hafler" principle.

That is wiring up two extra speakers (prefereably by using the multi-room posts) out of phase with the front pair - that is red to black, black to red but retaining left/right orientation.

Many early recordings didn't take polarity into account, and by using the Hafler principle you could separate those polarity errors into providing a very open sound, full of depth - rather than the somewhat flat stereo.

Apart from wiring the rear speakers out of phase, no other processing is involved - digital, analogue or otherwise.
This is basically what my realistic 4ch synthesizer box is doing it is a passive system which is not plugged in to the mains
you can use the blend control and rear volume controls or you can switch of the quatravox for ordinary stereo
the effect works better with different types of music some being more spatial than others.

the good thing about this to me is it is not a discrete system which would only work with a quad stylus or tape deck playing back a quad recording , this chepo system takes any stereo source and matrix the sound
Robert__law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 18:38
wirelessone
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 152
Simon Bates mentioned quadraphonic broadcasting today on his show on Gold. He said he was involved in the first ever gig broadcast in quad which was by Pink Floyd! I have an old radio times from 1978 which shows Rock On on Radio 1 in Stereo & Quad (using the Matrix HJ system).
What a pity formats were not agreed and it was a further 20 years for surround sound to become popular. I'd love to hear a clip of how this was pesented to the listeners, if any archive still exists.
wirelessone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 19:22
RobAnt
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South West
Posts: 10,218
Simon Bates mentioned quadraphonic broadcasting today on his show on Gold. He said he was involved in the first ever gig broadcast in quad which was by Pink Floyd! I have an old radio times from 1978 which shows Rock On on Radio 1 in Stereo & Quad (using the Matrix HJ system).
What a pity formats were not agreed and it was a further 20 years for surround sound to become popular. I'd love to hear a clip of how this was pesented to the listeners, if any archive still exists.
I didn't catch Simon's broadcast, but I seem to recall there werre tests with TWO stereo radio channels. One station carrying the front and the other station carrying the rear. This may have been what Simon was referring to.

Of course, you needed two identical stereo receivers to catch the broadcasts, which few, if any, had.
RobAnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 19:32
davidweller
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wallington, Surrey
Posts: 6,960
I didn't catch Simon's broadcast, but I seem to recall there werre tests with TWO stereo radio channels. One station carrying the front and the other station carrying the rear. This may have been what Simon was referring to.

Of course, you needed two identical stereo receivers to catch the broadcasts, which few, if any, had.
I remeber listening to some experimental drama productions: two channels were broadcast on BBCRadio3 and two on BBCRadio4.

Whilst I had two stereo set ups, one was in the lounge and the other was in the bedroom and it was a pain to move them into the same room.
davidweller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 19:33
RussellIan
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,503
Quadrophonic sound? Wasn't that something to do with Ken Russell's Lisztomania?
RussellIan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 20:10
Pugwash69
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Sticks
Posts: 3,720
I had a quad mix of Tubular Bells somewhere. It was ok, insofar as the various instruments were better seperated. I'd still do with 5.1 for audio acompanying video just becase it suggests a "front" direction, but 4 channel audio is fine where you're surrounded by music.
Pugwash69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 20:52
Radio Ruderham
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hear, there & everywhere.
Posts: 11,413
There were of course two main Matrix systems
SQ (Stereo Quadrature) from CBS and Sony (I think)
the other was QS Quadrature Stereo from Samsung both
compatible with each other and one was the basic format
for the Dolby Stereo (analogue) system used in Cinemas (can't remember which one).

Lastly there was CD-4
the only true Quadrasonic, as It should be.

Problem with CD-4 was, it used a 400Hz (again I think) tone basically a frequency gate,
although the maufacturers called it radar, that opened the rear information.
This meant in order to cut a 400Hz tone on vinyl you would have to slow the cutting speed down
which caused the problem of the music being bass light,
and a tone of that frequency was never going to happen on compact cassettes even using chrome.
They tried and it didn't work.

It was a great idea, way ahead of what was technically possible at that time.

Now, if you want an explanation about 4 track stereo and 6 track stereo that was used in cinemas, then just ask.

P.S Robert, Can I come and see your 30 line plessey televisor,phonovision?
I've never seen a working one.
Radio Ruderham is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 21:56
Robert__law
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: DUNDEE
Posts: 1,318
P.S Robert, Can I come and see your 30 line plessey televisor,phonovision?
I've never seen a working one.[/quote]


I have a 30 line mechanicle televisor , which is a kit I got from -

http://www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.p...2187b8ed8b43d6

I am very interested in the early history of TV dont have an original plessey or phonovision unfortunatly ! my real services are virgin v+ . fTa sattelite , DAB radio

the televisor works I have softwear to donconvert video on my computer record the audio and play back on the televisor !
Robert__law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 22:02
Robert__law
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: DUNDEE
Posts: 1,318
still enjoying listening to the radio with sound going through my quatravox 4ch synthesizer it opens up the sound and you can hear things coming out the rear speakers you can adjust the rear sound on the box there are quite a few appear on ebay .com from time to time and are very cheep
Robert__law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 22:18
rjb101
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,609
Quadrophonic sound? Wasn't that something to do with Ken Russell's Lisztomania?
No, your thinking of Quadrophenia, An album by the Who and a film by Ken Rusell

Which also had nothing to do with sound, more.

"Schizophrenic? I'm Bleeding Quadrophenic"
rjb101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2009, 23:22
HungLikeADonkey
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 437
Don't forget the Q8 format (on 8 track cartridge), a lot of good albums released on that back in the day, and a true discrete channel quad setup rather than matrix. Floyd used this for Atom Heart Mother, Dark Side and Wish You Were Here.

As your attorney, I would advise anyone here reading this to go forth to their favourite Bit Torrent site / emule server, and download the Wish You Were Here Q8-to-DTS conversion CD, created by Tab Quad God. I regularly play this on my Playstation 3 which gets a bitstream output over optical to my amp, and it really is something that needs to be heard at least once. Simply amazing! Hear Shine On You Crazy Diamond coming at you from all angles, in true non-matrixed 4.0!!!

And of course there is the 4.1 DVD-A of Dark Side doing the rounds, which was created from original quadrophonic master tapes, that someone managed to sneak a look at from the archives and promptly digitised to 4 separate wave files without EMI noticing.
HungLikeADonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2009, 14:16
Pugwash69
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Sticks
Posts: 3,720
I bought a DVD-A and SACD dual-format DVD player a while ago as they didn't seem to choose a format and stick to it!

Mike Oldfield stuck a remaster of Tubular Bells out on Hybrid CD/SACD in 2001, then re-recorded the whole thing onto DVD-A in in 2003. I wish they'd just do both every time as each has its benefits.
Pugwash69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2009, 15:13
wavejockglw
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 10,276
I remember the big Quadraphonic format battle of the 70s.

The two main contenders were Sony with SQ wich was not a fully separate 4 channels of sound but had big support from one of the biggest hardware companies and CBS Records. The other was JVC's CD4 which was fully discrete with 4 separate channels and it was much more expensive I recall.

Anyway the public were confused and neither took off which is a shame as I recall hearing Redbone's Witch Queen of New Orleans in SQ at a Harrogate show and it was pretty awsome!
wavejockglw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2009, 16:16
mossy2103
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 68,718
I remember the big Quadraphonic format battle of the 70s.

The two main contenders were Sony with SQ wich was not a fully separate 4 channels of sound but had big support from one of the biggest hardware companies and CBS Records. The other was JVC's CD4 which was fully discrete with 4 separate channels and it was much more expensive I recall.
Now I thought that the other matrixed system battling SQ was a system called (confusingly enough) QS (for Quadraphonic Stereo).
mossy2103 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2009, 16:57
JamesE
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hibaldstow, N. Lincolnshire
Posts: 5,985
The Wiki link above is correct: SQ was CBS used by many and QS was Sansui and didn't really catch on. I did a lot of work on it at the time in the '70s (The Q51) and was given, yes, given, many demonstrator disks. We ran a demonstration at the Harrogate Audio Fair in around 1977/78. I still have Tubular Bells and Dark Side in SQ, now put onto CDs.
JamesE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2009, 11:13
scottie55
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 127

Mike Oldfield stuck a remaster of Tubular Bells out on Hybrid CD/SACD in 2001, then re-recorded the whole thing onto DVD-A in in 2003. I wish they'd just do both every time as each has its benefits.
He did indeed. The SACD version was based on the original 4 channel studio tapes. The DVD-A was, as you say, a re-recorded version with John Cleese (of all people) replacing the late Viv Stanshall.

Both the SACD and the DVD-A are hard to come by. I managed to buy the DVD-A version last year off ebay from America for less than £20. Very pleased with it.

Les
scottie55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2009, 12:06
Pugwash69
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Sticks
Posts: 3,720
I have both, bought from play.com I think. It was some time ago. They don't promote SACD any more but you find plenty of titles if you search. DVD-A might be hidden in the Music DVD section.

p.s. this includes the DVD-A for £15:
http://www.bandstores.co.uk/shop/tub...?prod=30980701

I need the 2009 remaster too though...
Pugwash69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2009, 17:29
cp2
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Standish, near Wigan
Posts: 525
I also have the SACD version of Tubular Bells.
I also have an SACD release of Rachmaninov Piano Concerto 2/ Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini taken, according to the sleeve notes, from the original 4-channel recordings made by Philips Classics and in a format called RQR - Remastered Quadro Recordings.
cp2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:47.