That kind of worked - as you say, it certainly dented EastEnders. I think ITV wanted BBC1 to move EastEnders to 8pm, either Tuesday or Wednesday. They were beggared when BBC1 refused to budge.


Don't forget, they put Doctor Who up against the Britain's Got Talent final in 2008 as well, which dented both programme's.


To be honest, at this moment BBC1 is the only channel that can compete with the ITV1 big hitters (all the other shows on ITV1, it's getting to the point where BBC3 can make a fair fight of it ).

It's pretty good when they air complimentary programmes against the big hitters (say Doctor Who v BGT, or Strictly v Coronation Street, or tonight pitching Watchdog against the soaps, considering how well Watchdog was doing previously against them). But when's it similar programming? I don't think it's right for any network to try that TBH, let alone the state broadaster.


I'm not sure how The One Show would affect Strictly anyway. BBC1 and ITV1 have an unwritten agreement not to clash EastEnders and Coronation Street, and EastEnders'd lose out to Emmerdale if placed in Emmerdale's usual slot.

I don't think a Sunday show'd confuse people more than a Friday night show will. Plus, as the main show and results are all in one, it's hardly going to have people switching off then forgetting.

For me they should've aired the second show on Sunday. The other alternative was starting the Friday show at 8pm and moving EastEnders to 9.30pm.

Then why didn't they think this through? If this peculiar move of creating a supersize SCD was going to leave them without any ideal scenario, why do it? Chances are, XF and SCD would shift around one another in the 7-9pm slots on the Sunday.

And where can ITV shift XF to? Wherever it goes, there's going to be a fairly significant clash.

For what reason should the BBC take ITV on with a similar style of show though (in this case reality television)?

As I said, fair enough when it was Doctor Who v Britain's Got Talent - it's complimentary scheduling. Merlin v The X Factor was complimentary scheduling. What the BBC have done now is said 'Saturday night - on the two biggest channels you have to choose between reality v reality. If you love reality it forces you into a choice you didn't need to make last year. If you hate reality - you have no choice on the big two until after 9pm."

Maybe they thought a supersize show would make Strictly a better programme for its viewers. That is meant to be their priority after-all.

As I suggested yesterday, they may have hoped to manage a straight swap with XF to the scenario of last year (they've swapped on Sunday's after all).

As far as I'm concerned, the BBC have got to be allowed to make plays for the best slots as they see them. If they don't, they give license to ITV to shift their tanks around the schedule and hamper the BBC's chances in important slots (As they have already done pre-9pm weekdays). The BBC musn't be subservient to any commercial interests - that includes ITV deciding where BBC programmes should go.

There isn't even room for a straight swap nor do ITV have material commissioned for such an event (which the BBC will have known). By the time Who Dares Wins returns, Strictly will be starting around 7pm (not much later anyway) and running for 2 hours.

ITV weren't hampering BBC chances here. Merlin and Strictly were doing great last year. Millions of people were being offered a variety of complementary entertainment across the biggest channels. This year, they're all going to do a bit worse and viewers get reality vs reality for most of Saturday night.

Oh come on, 7.8m is piss poor for a crucial(ish) qualifer which secured our place at the World Cup, and saw England bang in 5. On a Wednesday night, in September, nights drawing in, with limited competition. Viewers pile in when goals are raining in. They didn't last night.

No doubt in my mind that this would have peaked at 11m+ on BBC1, and averaged about 10m.

The FA (and their sponsors...) may be scratching their heads wondering why the national team can win 8 on the bounce but the ratings are well below what friendlies against the likes of Switzerland were getting on BBC1 less than 2 years ago.


Because you know it's true...

Do you really think theyll only open the lines for 6 minutes.Imagine the scd forum if that happened.

You havent allocated any time to the results been called out and that is vital to building up the tension and entertainment of the show.

The 2 professional dances were confirmed at the press conference and on twitter [Arlene, Camilla and Karens new job is to choreograph them]

Musical guests like Andy Williams have been confirmed for the show, so they not been dropped either.

Bgt is different from scd, on strictly you have the same people every week so people have favourites.On the BGT semis its different people every night and its probably less crucial to have lots of time to vote like on scd and the x factor.

Also you havent allocated any time for any of Brucies wonderfull jokes

By saying that BBC may have had the hope that they'd force The X Factor into an early slot it could be argued that the BBC are trying to decide where ITV programmes should go. If it's not right for the one, it's not right for the other.

Saturday nights last year were perfect because of the clever scheduling from BBC1 and ITV1 which meant that they appealed to different audiences all the way through.

As for saying Strictly's ratings will be superior at a later time, that much is true. But the majority of the Strictly shows on Saturday were above 9m for the entire series. Not exactly a ratings flop.

Strictly Come Dancing 2008 Saturday ratings
20/09/08 (6.10-7.20): 7.99m (42.7%)
27/09/08 (6.45-8.05): 8.59m (40.6%)
clashed with The X Factor (7.45-9.15)
04/10/08 (6.45-8.00): 9.22m (39.9%)
clashed with The X Factor (7.45-9.15)
11/10/08 (5.50-7.10): 7.42m (34.6%)
28/10/08 (6.40-8.10): 8.56m (37.1%)
Merlin and SCD swapped - Merlin lost 500k viewers
clashed with The X Factor (7.25-9.25)
25/10/08 (6.45-8.05): 9.27m (39.3%)
clashed with The X Factor (7.45-9.25)
01/11/08 (6.05-7.30): 9.36m (40%)
08/11/08 (6.00-7.20): 9.61m (42.6%)
15/11/08 (6.05-7.20): 9.69m (42.4%)
22/11/08 (6.20-7.25): 10.16m (42.6%)
week after John announced departure
29/11/08: No record for some reason
06/12/08: 10.17m (43.7%)
13/12/08 (6.10-7.10): 9.9m (41.2%)
20/12/08 (first show - 6.40-8.05): 11.58m (47.4%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictl...s_6%29#Ratings

What I was trying to say was that strictly couldnt steal the slot[7-8pm] an week after the BBC launch the new 'one hour Friday night one show' just to suit younger fans.

Why have 2 sunday night result shows when you are dropping your old sunday result show for the rest of the run and want viewers to know about it.

If they do it something like this:

7.25 Bruce and Tess hello
7.27 Introducing the couples
7.33 First dance
7.42 Second dance
7.49 Third dance
7.58 Fourth dance
8.07 Fifth dance
8.16 Sixth dance
8.25 Seventh dance
8.34 Eigthth dance
8.43 Read through telephone numbers
8.47 Introduction for singer
8.48 Singer with professional dancers (lines closed)
8.53 Thank you/The Results are in
8.54 Bruce and Tess state the 6 who are safe
8.56 Dance Off dance 1
8.58 Dance Off dance 2
9.00 Judge's vote
9.03 Goodbye dance and credits

It's going to be really crammed to fit it all in in time. That'd give around 15 minutes to vote after the last dance though.

But Strictly needs a 90 minute slot. What are you saying - if The One Show wasn't extended the BBC could've ran Strictly 7-8pm, then 8.30-9pm?

I don't think the 7pm slot was ever viable for Strictly.

The crucial point is that I'm not advocating ITV must play ball as many wish the BBC to do. I think ITV should, and will, flip The Cube and X Factor, get a head start, and foil the BBC plan.

Its all posturing over the first few weeks. It'll settle down.

And on that positive note I shall depart the debate for bed! I fear I may have been a little rudely sarcastic earlier and I hope our discussions have remained friendly, unlike other places on this site - (*cough) Broadcasting Forum (*cough)

I was just saying that the 8.30-10.00 slot is the only viable slot available on friday and they couldnt schedule it any earlier for younger viewers.

I reckon BBC1 are currently looking at the ITV1 schedule currently astonished that they haven't flipped The X Factor and The Cube. But I think ITV want to protect The Cube as much as it can currently, hence keeping it away from Strictly.

Certainly this is the biggest bit of posturing from either side since the clashes started!

I want to apologise if I've come over rude at all during any of the discussions as well. For the record, I don't think you've been rude, sn_22.


But how about the Friday 7.30pm slot, with EastEnders at 9pm and something like Outnumbered at 9.30pm? EastEnders has moved before for football (World Cup/Euros), and it would have the Strictly lead in as a prize for becoming a late showing. It also has the Sunday omnibus for anyone who misses it, plus is on iplayer all week. That way Strictly could've finished earlier (5 minutes earlier than the Saturday finish), would've covered more of the central primetime and given BBC1 a lift into the tricky 9pm slot with a consistent EastEnders.

They could've held off The One Show hour long's until the two Strictly Friday shows were out of the way by showing a comedy repeat this week.

I think they'll eventually find some sort of regular schedule. But it'll take until X Factor gets to the live shows, TV Burp starts and Who Dares Wins returns.


I think it was quite a civilised discussion from everyone involved (well, hopefully everyone! ). And probably just the first of many to come! Even if the moves are bad for viewers, they're bound to create more discussion on this thread.

Both Strictly and The X Factor may see their ratings dip - but this thread'll have a Part 5 in no time.

Just think how crammed it will be on week 3 with 14 dancers.

You have alloted 70 minutes for 8 dances.Last years opener was 75 mins that including 8 dances, an group dance of week 2 celebs, the extended celeb meets partner intos and the introduction of week twos celebrities and in last years opening episode there was seperate introduction videos of the female/ male professionals.

That'll be an all nighter - 7pm to 10pm.

I wonder how X Factor'd schedule around that...


EDIT: Misunderstood what you meant.

So they don't need as much time as 70 minutes for the dances? Fantastic, they can have the week 2 introduction there and maybe a few more of Bruce's jokes.

In fairness the BSI arent used to straightforward thinking like that.

True. Maybe they thought people'd pitch a fit if EastEnders was moved?

I also notice that they dropped the preview show, that usually airs on the saturday previous to the show offically beginning. Last year it got 6.3 million. Not bad for an load of clips that were already on the scd website.
Its not as if they couldnt drop the rating monster that is 'as seen on tv'[repeat] for an week.

I fear we will probably see Bruce in the audience again sitting on David Walliams knee while reminding Kate Garraway of what an awfull dancer she was.
I really watch too much SCD

Can't really be bothered wading through all the SCD vs. TXF stuff. They're in their slots, so let's just get on with it.

What I'm more interested in is tonight's Watchdog! What a mess...or should I say Dog's Dinner? The show just felt extremely cheap and looks like it has been extended beyond it's means.

They should have kept the format - and especailly the studio - realtively similar to the old Nicky Campbell format. There was so much random stuff in it tonight. Loads of people standing in some balcony thing. Standing up to interview Duncan Bannatyne. Putting baby prams on a bucking bronco. Gaby Logan!!!

There needs to be a major re-think or this new format is going to tank in the ratings - Anne Robinson or not.

I agree - I enjoyed that last year, I'm really disappointed it's been missed out this time round.

I would've aired It Takes Two on Friday 18th as well. Build up some atmosphere, talk to the couples just before they take to the stage. They're going to have one on the 25th anyway, so why not one on the 18th?

It'll be Matt Lucas' knee this year.


Watchdog was bizarre, and that's being kind. As someone else said earlier in the thread, it'll be interesting to see whether it lost viewers as the hour went on. ITV1 had the soaps opposite it, though, so I guess it may have been stable enough. It really needs to be sorted out though. Especially their investigations.

"We're now doing an investigation into which pram is the best."

*10 minutes later*

"They all have good and bad points"

Thanks for that.