Hi Folks,

Sorry to post here but I couldn't find a suitable alternative.

I've just bought a FoxSat-HDR from Argos and asked the local aerial installer to install the dish and cable.

Just wondering what your opinions are of the quality of this installation:
http://vwlowen.co.uk/freesat/freesat.htm

I added the sealant in the bottom photo.

John.

It looks a bit sloppy. When Sky originally installed at my old house it was all crisp and secure against the wall without any slack.
I assume the hole he made in your wall was large and draughty?

Bodge, where's the lnb rain sleeve, they normally pull down to cover the connectors

This is my home installed dish showing the rain shield down

http://www.4shared.com/account/file/.../SatDish1.html

The problem with the hole is he drilled it from inside so the brick 'burst' on the outside. I was expecting one of those cover plate things on the outside but there wasn't even any sealant.

I'm trying to find the spec for the cable as it may give the minimum recommended clip spacing for horizontal and vertical runs. Horizontally, the clips are 450mm apart which seems too large to me. Vertically, I doubt 7 feet apart would be recommended as he's got!

I wasn't sure whether the unused LNB sockets should have "blind" rubber boots or self-amalgamating tape over them (in the absence of a full pull-down cover)?

If I could find an industry-standard specification for this sort of installation, I'd happily go back to the dealer and have it out with him. As it is, I'll probably fork out for some clips and a roll of self-amalgamating tape and finish the job myself!

John.

Are you sure it wasn't one of sky's own installers that did that? - no wait, it's not that bad

I too have a plastic cover that pops down and completely covers the connectors. The unused connectors on my LNB also have tight fitting rubber/plastic covers.

You could go back to them and complain, even if you just ask them to give you some additional cable clips and one of those plastic covers that covers the hole they have drilled into your brickwork.

politely ? what a load of pants my 10 year old could & prob can do a better job than that

Hi John
I presume you are not happy yourself and to be honest neither would most people. When SKY installed my dish it was a poor quality install. The most annoying part is what your install exhibits....the massive hole in the wall. It really does not need to be done as a little care (mostly time) and this can be totally avoided.

Having used several people over time I decided that I would rig my own system up...and so I did and a far superior job I have done. I used silicone grease on the redundant LNB outputs to stop water ingress and I really would recommend that as the best single thing you could do. Smear plenty all over the LNB outputs and on the outside of the taped outputs if nothing else. The wire does need clipping back where loose as over time the wind will chaff it against the wall and this will lead you to have problems.

Should you complain...sure...but I always think that if that is the sort of job they think is OK then I really don't know if they could take on board your criticism. It's just poor. Good luck.

That's awful!

That Zinwell LNB does have a pull down rain cover. However, it doesn't pull down over the entire F connector (it leaves about 5mm exposed at the bottom). There is a modified version now which does cover the entire F connector.

The amalgamating tape has been applied extremely poorly indeed. The tape should be stretched during application so that when applied, it effectively welds itself to itself. What you've got there isn't watertight.

The cabling is awful. No need for three clips on the horizontal run from the dish. The radius in the first bend doesn't need to be that big and just looks sloppy. The radius of the second bend is far too tight.

I personally like cable drops behind drain pipes but it should be taught and cable tied. That's just hanging loose and looks crap.

Horizontally, IMHO 450mm between clips isn't too bad. I personally clip slightly closer though, roughly every 2.5 bricks, but usually into the horizontal mortar line rather than the verticals as the vertical lines are often hollow and don't hold the clips too well. I always clip with the nails in the same orientation in case of future requirements to run n additional cable alongside the existing cable.

With regards to the entry hole. Standard practice is to drill from inside out. If you drill outside in you're guaranteed to blow plaster. He should have taken hammer off for the last half inch or so though, that would've prevented the brick blowing. Leaving hammer on is the lazy route - quicker must almost guaranteed to blow brick.

How much did you pay for installation and did you arrange it via Argos at time of purchase or did you contact the installer directly?

Yes, I agree with your points - particularly about the tape being applied too loosely.

From memory, I think the Argos install price was £107 and this dealer charged £95. Not much of a saving but I thought why not.

Once I'd talked myself into getting the Foxsat, I did consider installing the dish myself but decided against it because of the alignment etc.

Because they've clipped every 3rd vertical seam in the brickwork, I may not be able to get extra clips halfway between and clips at every vertical seam would be too much!

Anyway, we live and learn - so that's Aerials NorthWest of Wirral for you! I'll see if I can shame them into giving me some more clips and maybe one of those hole covers and, if the weather picks up a bit tomorrow, see if I can tidy it up.

John.

That's shoddy.
Out of interest,did you not inspect the installer's work before handing over the reddies! I certainly would have done,and he wouldn't of got paid until the faults were rectified....

Personally I would not accept that work. Does not matter that you have already paid - although makes it more complicated.

I would write to their MD with pics explaining why you feel that they have done a bad job and what you would expect them to do to rectify it.

- Ensure LNB connections are properly weather-proofed
- Securing the cable to the wall properly
- Making good the damage to your property and sealing the hole

I would state that they are in breach of contract and threaten involving the Trading Standards Office if they refuse to deal with your complaint by (and give a date).

There's no reason why you should have to put up with it or make it good yourself.

If they fail to respond then go to the Trading Standards Office (listed in your local telephone directory).

Reason for saying this is if there are problems further down the line (say the LNB connections get waterlogged), the longer you leave it, the less come-back you will have.

I suppose the big question is, having looked at the quality of the finished article.

Is the positioning/alignment of the dish accurate enough?

What signal quality shows up and when it rains do you get picture fade? If this is an issue you really will have to ask them to redo their work.

Unfortunately, an elderly neighbour was "house sitting" for me while the installers were here. I'd already written the cheque for her to hand over on completion.

The dish itself seems to be installed and aligned ok so, as the rest of it is just DIY level stuff, I'd rather do it myself. I fully understand about not accepting it and getting them to put it right but, if that's their standard of work, I could be waiting a long time. I'd rather get it sorted myself before the worst of the weather sets in. The actual alignment seems ok. Although we haven't had any really heavy rain yet, during what we have had the signal strength was around 80% and the quality was around 85%. Just checked this morning while it's dry and it's around 90% and 95%.

I do intend to send a set of before & after photos and a copy of these forum posts if I can find anyone suitable to send it to. The website address on their business card is defunct. http://www.aerialsnorthwest.co.uk/

John.

I've just nipped out between showers and have slid that cover down. As you say, it leaves a bit sticking out but it does at least get the top edge of the tape above "drip line" of the rain. It shows what a sloppy job they did not to even slide that down.

I've found some of the tape so I'll get that done asap. The rest is more cosmetic so there's less panic

John.

My comments:

Dish install is neat but:

1. LNB connections appear poorly sealed with tape - looks loosely wound

2. No spare cable looped by the dish to allow for re-termination

3. Inadequate use of clips - nicely clipped by the dish but poor further down the wall

4. Hole into the wall obviously not sealed - should have been ideally shielded inside and out by the use of a plastic cover - they only cost 50p each at retail, probably a lot less to an installer and in bulk - I guess pence

This is my self install for comparison (criticism welcome):

1. LNB Area - I used Professional water proof plugs so no tape was needed, I also fastened the cable to the arm with cable ties

http://yfrog.com/0fsatelittedishj

2. Dish mounting area - note cable tie wrapped to bracket all the way to the wall and spare loop of cable to shed water / allow spare for re-termination of plugs if necessary

http://yfrog.com/5kloopedcablej

3. Cable down the wall - clipped every 6 inches and tried to hide it behind the fall pipe as much as possible

http://img4.yfrog.com/i/cabledownwall.jpg/

4. Through wall entry - plastic shield with internal version on inside wall - stuck on with mastic but can also be screwed I chose the mastic so as to avoid having to damage the wall by drilling holes:

BTW I've seen some terrible installs with these - people fastening them upside down so they funnel water INTO the wall!

http://yfrog.com/5kcableentryj

Yes, looks good.

I found some amalgamating tape and I've removed the old stuff (just unwound as it hadn't amalgamated at all). I've put two layers (as a continuous "run" and well-stretched!) on each connection - top down then bottom up. The two unused connectors don't look too tidy - I wrapped them with tape and then crimped what was left of the open end of the "tube" of tape. The rain shroud thingy pulled down further than I first thought. The installer hadn't even pulled it down at all! As you say, some spare cable would be useful but, other than the loop into the connections, that's all I had to play with.

http://vwlowen.co.uk/freesat/freesat.htm

I used the old clips to tidy up as far as the corner - I'll need some more clips and better weather before I carry on!

(I could have sworn I'd posted this already so apologies if it appears twice!)

John.

Yes, of course you must complain, but not locally. Complain to Argos head office. I am sure they will be pleased to see what their agents get paid for.

If you complain to the installer they MAY come back and attempt to fix things and in doing so, if they send the same amateur, make things markedly worse.

At the end of the day the installer is an agent of Argos and you should deal with them. You want at least a partial refund to help in payment for replacement of the damaged brick.

I think you've misread his post, Argos didn't arrange the install, he arranged it himself for a cheaper price.

Unfortunately, it wasn't installed through Argos... I thought I'd save a few quid by using my own installer.

As an aside: I used the "automated" pay terminal at Argos and, although it spotted I was buying receiving equipment and duly asked for my address etc, it didn't ask if I wanted to use an Argos installer. If it had done, I would probably have hit the Yes button!

Anyway, it's given me the confidence to mess around with the dish and it's connections - I was a bit paranoid about knocking it out of alignment to be honest! But that part's finished now.

John.

Oh yes! thanks for pointing that out. I completely misread the post as you said

That looks pretty good for an independent installer. Should have gone to Sky.

Either that or my installer should've gone to Specsavers

John.

Yes, they would have thrown the lead over the roof so it rubbed through and poured water in to your box

Funnily enough, that was the installer's preferred option. But, as the entry hole is at the prominent front corner of the bungalow, I didn't want the cable looping around the gutter and down the wall. Maybe it was because I insisted he ran the cable round at in inconspicuous low level that he decided to just throw it in.

Anyway, thanks to the confirmation and advice from all you good people, I'm confident that I'll be on the right side should I decide to take it further..... Knowing me, I'll just get on with putting it right and let it drop. Although it'll probably get a mention on the "Jobs at the new bungalow" section on my website

John.

He he, seen that plenty. Also the reason why its good to have a loop before it enters the property if the cable is coming from above. That way you have a drip trap which channels the water to the bottom of the loop and allows it to drip off.

Still can't believe the install a few doors down from me though where the plastic wall cover is mounted almost upside down (its about 45 degrees off upside vertical) so acts a water funnel into the wall. Wonder how long before the neighbour complains of damp problems.