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#2526 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: cardiff
Posts: 12,557
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Phew well done Wales - great match.
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#2527 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 261
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How long before the Irish start moaning they were robbed again?
Aside from that, great game. |
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#2528 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,403
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Quote:
How long before the Irish start moaning they were robbed again?
Aside from that, great game. |
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#2529 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: cardiff
Posts: 12,557
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Lol, was a definite red card tho - but i'll take it the win
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#2530 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,627
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Quote:
How long before the Irish start moaning they were robbed again?
Aside from that, great game. |
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#2531 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: colchester
Posts: 15,352
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Lol, was a definite red card tho - but i'll take it the win
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#2532 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,572
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Quote:
They played poorly and were robbed if that makes any sense. Wales were the better team on the day but probably won as a result a couple of bad refereeing decisions.....the spear tackle was a clear red for starters.
I don't recall Davies doing anything particularly decisive in the last five minutes and the Ferris tackle was a definite penalty according to the laws at the moment. Again, if he hadn't gone off then he still wouldn't have been able to contribute to an Irish win. On the other hand, the Irish forwards were lying all over the ball in the first half and Barnes wasn't doing anything about it despite shouting "No hands!" two or three times. He also didn't see Moss constantly binding on the arm despite it happening right in front of him. There are many factors that lost the game for Ireland (weak midfield defence, kicking away possession etc.) and many factors that could have lost the game for Wales (useless lineout and kicking game, unbelievable stupidity etc.) but ultimately the reffing wasn't a deciding factor. The running of North and the angles of Jonathan Davies were much more influential than Barnes. |
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#2533 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 261
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Um, they were. Only a moron would deny that refereeing decisions went against Ireland.
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They played poorly and were robbed if that makes any sense. Wales were the better team on the day but probably won as a result a couple of bad refereeing decisions.....the spear tackle was a clear red for starters.
Spear tackle was a red, but Ferris was stupid to make the tackle he did in front of the posts. He knows the laws, any time you pick up a player you're asking for trouble. The fact the Welsh player twisted his body and landed on his side is irrelevant, Ferris' elbow was higher then his head, that's going to give a penalty away no matter how the tackled player lands. |
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#2534 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 477
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Wales were the better team, they showed more attacking intent and wanted to win the match more. It was a topsy turvy game. There is no doubt Davies should have had a red for an off the ball tackle. I really thought his stupidity had cost Wales the match.
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#2535 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 3,247
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Great advertisement for rugby union today unlike that drab affair at Murrayfield. Bradley Davies no doubt should have been given the red card but I feel Wales just about deserved to win. Wales could easily been given a try earlier if the referee had asked a different question. Defending teams, well aware of cameras, can easily pile the bodies in to obscure the view and stop perfectly good tries being allowed.
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#2536 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 343
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Great advertisement for rugby union today unlike that drab affair at Murrayfield. Bradley Davies no doubt should have been given the red card but I feel Wales just about deserved to win. Wales could easily been given a try earlier if the referee had asked a different question. Defending teams, well aware of cameras, can easily pile the bodies in to obscure the view and stop perfectly good tries being allowed.
Think Wales at the Millenium will offer the biggest challenge to a possible Grand Slam for France. |
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#2537 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Avengers Mansion
Posts: 168,582
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Bring on Scotland in Cardiff next week
![]() As for the dangerous tackles, Jonathan Davies summed it all up The IRB really need to make a clear definition of what is a red card or sin bin offence when it comes to the spear tackle Bradley Davies should have seen a red card, no doubt about that and I wouldn't be surprised if he was cited very soon |
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#2538 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wales
Posts: 7,052
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Bring on Scotland in Cardiff next week
![]() As for the dangerous tackles, Jonathan Davies summed it all up The IRB really need to make a clear definition of what is a red card or sin bin offence when it comes to the spear tackle Bradley Davies should have seen a red card, no doubt about that and I wouldn't be surprised if he was cited very soon
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#2539 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,627
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then call me a moron.
No, it doesn't make any sense. They weren't robbed, simple as that. Every game has bad refereeing decisions, and honestly today I thought the refereeing was fairly consistent. Ireland get away with a lot of foul play on the floor in rucks, yet you don't seem to moan at the ref about that. Spear tackle was a red, but Ferris was stupid to make the tackle he did in front of the posts. He knows the laws, any time you pick up a player you're asking for trouble. The fact the Welsh player twisted his body and landed on his side is irrelevant, Ferris' elbow was higher then his head, that's going to give a penalty away no matter how the tackled player lands. Personally, I thought Sexton's decision to kick for goal from the halfway line late in the match instead of down into the corner probably cost them the match. No question that the better team on the day won though. |
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#2540 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gods country Wales
Posts: 4,035
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Best team won, but Bradley Davies will almost certainly be cited and so he should. Was a definite red card, and imo he should get a lengthy ban because it was the most dangerous of spear tackles and luckily no lasting injury to the Irish player. Stephen Ferris was unlucky to get binned but it was a penalty offence considering the current IRB law. The only other issue I have is the Irish scrum half dropping the knees on Johnathan Davies as he scored the try. If you watch it back, as Davies touches down he clearly makes no attempt at a tackle and goes in knees first on Davies' legs. Very sneaky.
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#2541 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,571
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Good physical game of rugby today, gutted for Ireland but on the way the gaem was played Wales did just edge it. I await their "grand slam".talk.
Wales have bought a Southern Hemisphere intentensity to their game which could easily produce somthing better for all of the Northern Hemisphere. I think it is Clear Davies is going to be banned off the ball and dangerous, I hope it is a lengthy ban, most dangerous spear I have seen, since Brad Thorn slammed John Smit. England have to do something special because they wont find teams as incompitant as Scotland were yesterday. |
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#2542 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Bring on Scotland in Cardiff next week
![]() As for the dangerous tackles, Jonathan Davies summed it all up The IRB really need to make a clear definition of what is a red card or sin bin offence when it comes to the spear tackle Bradley Davies should have seen a red card, no doubt about that and I wouldn't be surprised if he was cited very soon Laws are clear, it's piss poor referee consistency that is to blame. And for the sore Irish on here blaming Barnes, he clearly stated he saw nothing, it was touch judge Dave Pearson that advised a yellow, so blame him. Quote:
The spear tackle yellow was probably the key refereeing incident of the day though, and Ireland definitely played well when Wales were a man down.
Personally, I thought Sexton's decision to kick for goal from the halfway line late in the match instead of down into the corner probably cost them the match. No question that the better team on the day won though. I think it was the right call at the time. Quote:
Best team won, but Bradley Davies will almost certainly be cited and so he should. Was a definite red card, and imo he should get a lengthy ban because it was the most dangerous of spear tackles and luckily no lasting injury to the Irish player. Stephen Ferris was unlucky to get binned but it was a penalty offence considering the current IRB law. The only other issue I have is the Irish scrum half dropping the knees on Johnathan Davies as he scored the try. If you watch it back, as Davies touches down he clearly makes no attempt at a tackle and goes in knees first on Davies' legs. Very sneaky.
Somebody else did that in the World Cup and he got cited and banned. Who was it? Oh yes, it was Delon Armitage. If the IRB wants to come across as anything other than corrupt than Murray needs to be at least cited as well. |
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#2543 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,627
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They have. I cant remember the exact wording, but the new law states that a spear/tip tackle basically starts out at a red card and is worked backwards. Ferris deserved a penalty but yellow was probably harsh because the tackled player landed on his side and Ferris didn't drive him into the ground. Davies deserved red because he let him go from a height while he was upside down.
Laws are clear, it's piss poor referee consistency that is to blame. And for the sore Irish on here blaming Barnes, he clearly stated he saw nothing, it was touch judge Dave Pearson that advised a yellow, so blame him. |
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#2544 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,627
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At the time they were winning and there were 74/75 minutes on the clock. A kick at goal would have wasted another minute and, if it had gone over, they would have got the ball back from the restart. If they kicked to touch and won their own lineout (which they might not have done) they still had to break through Wales' defence, which had proved a challenge all game. I think it was the right call at the time. |
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#2545 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,743
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The first 20 minutes have been awful. Riddled with mistakes!
i watched salford vs castleford super league match on saturday night where the conditions were really bad and the handling skills were miles ahead of england vs scotland. |
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#2546 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: colchester
Posts: 15,352
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It's very easy to be wise with the benefit of hindsight of course, and he was trying to put Ireland 9 points clear with five minutes to go, but the main problem I had with it was it was far from an easy kick : kicking for touch would have left Wales pinned back and having to defend.
The chances of a sucessful kick from there were slim. |
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#2547 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,424
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Davies should have been shown a red card, but in some ways his not being sent off didn't really affect the remainder of the game. He was still sin-binned, and during that time Ireland scored their try but then Wales replied through North - Davies didn't come back on until after the missed conversion. After the restart Ireland let Wales go through the phases without over committing players - and to avoid penalties, banking on them making an error at some point - having an extra man for that short passage of play probably wouldn't have held a significant advantage.
They can't really complain about the penalty against Ferris either, and even with the Davies incident there was an element of provocation on the part of Ryan - in my view - not to excuse Davies however. |
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#2548 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,571
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Davies should have been shown a red card, but in some ways his not being sent off didn't really affect the remainder of the game. He was still sin-binned, and during that time Ireland scored their try but then Wales replied through North - Davies didn't come back on until after the missed conversion. After the restart Ireland let Wales go through the phases without over committing players - and to avoid penalties, banking on them making an error at some point - having an extra man for that short passage of play probably wouldn't have held a significant advantage.
They can't really complain about the penalty against Ferris either, and even with the Davies incident there was an element of provocation on the part of Ryan - in my view - not to excuse Davies however. Great bit about the England game by Martin Samuel in the Mail. Quote:
The problem with English rugby is that it is never allowed to win. Just to win. Amass more points than the opposition, shake hands and go home.
Other teams get to win, even when they don't. Wales won the 2011 Rugby World Cup apparently. They did so by losing to every good team they played, except by the time the result had passed through a filter paper made up of bravery, nationalist cliche, dodgy refereeing and Celtic pride, well, stone me if Wales hadn't triumphed again. If Scotland had come to Twickenham and used seven players on their debuts, and two more earning a second cap, had they then won the match 13-6, a first victory on that turf in eight years, there would be no aggrandisement great enough http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/art...in-Samuel.html |
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#2549 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 261
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It's very easy to be wise with the benefit of hindsight of course, and he was trying to put Ireland 9 points clear with five minutes to go, but the main problem I had with it was it was far from an easy kick : kicking for touch would have left Wales pinned back and having to defend.
I still think it was the correct call at the time. Yeah it's easy to say they could have caught and drove at the lineout. But there was also the chance they could have lost it (not massively likely, but look how wales responded in the world cup to being a man down) and wasted the opportunity. The logic for taking the kick is quite sound. if it goes over you've wasted a minute and you get the ball back. If it doesn't go over then you've still wasted a minute and there's a good chance you'll get the ball back from the resulting 22 drop out (if the opposing team doesn't run it out of defence of course). In hindsight they should have gone for the corner. Leading by 6 with 5 minutes to go, I'dhave taken the kick as well. |
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#2550 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,572
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They have. I cant remember the exact wording, but the new law states that a spear/tip tackle basically starts out at a red card and is worked backwards. Ferris deserved a penalty but yellow was probably harsh because the tackled player landed on his side and Ferris didn't drive him into the ground. Davies deserved red because he let him go from a height while he was upside down.
Laws are clear, it's piss poor referee consistency that is to blame. And for the sore Irish on here blaming Barnes, he clearly stated he saw nothing, it was touch judge Dave Pearson that advised a yellow, so blame him. I can understand that way of thinking. Two games I can think of off the top of my head where a player was sent off early are the semi last year and Wales vs Scotland in 2006 where Scott Murray saw red for kicking Ian Gough. Both games turned sour and unsatisfying after the sendings off and even when Wales were the beneficiaries of the decision and the eventually winners I didn't enjoy the match at all. The effect of losing one player for a rugby team is devastating and when you consider that red card offences are usually impulsive, spur of the moment and often provoked incidences the thought of punishing a whole team just for one individual moment of lunacy doesn't sit well with me. Show them yellow, get on with the game and then throw the book at them afterwards, that's how I'd prefer it done. I hope BD enjoyed the last five minutes of that game because it's probably the last he'll see until September. On the other hand I'm all in favour of reds for persistent infringement. If a player is lying all over the ball at every ruck then they should get a warning, then a yellow and a clear message that one more and he won't be coming back on the pitch. |
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