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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread
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sensoria
09-02-2012
Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“Bradley Davies was a bellend of the highest order, but since Rolland and that blasted IRB directive everyone is talking about reds. I don't recall everyone scutinising foul play so much now that we know what the IRB are gunning for.

I see no one has mentioned negatively the hit on Adam Jones by Ryan, almost exactly like the hit that Bakkies Botha was cited and banned for in Pretoria. In hard and no attempt to bind. More than one source say this was an illegal hit and it was the cataylst for Davies' brainfart. Consistency is the key word here and there is absolutely none whether it be tip tackles or illegal clear outs.”

I don't agree with this bit, he is on his feet he hits the ruck and bind on Jones falls on impact as he is to busy looking the other way, Ryan then binds onto Davies. All the time Ryan is on his feet. It was a hard impact but I don't think that is wrong. I think Botha is an idiot but in that ruck I don't think he deserved the ban.

Quote:
“(a) All players forming, joining or taking part in a ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips.
Sanction: Free Kick

(b) A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm. The bind must either precede, or be simultaneous with, contact with any other part of the body of the player joining the ruck.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(c) Placing a hand on another player in the ruck does not constitute binding.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d) All players forming, joining or taking part in a ruck must be on their feet.
Sanction: Penalty kick ”

Dai13371
09-02-2012
Yep but it does boil down to consistancy again, the scourge of modern rugby officiating.
The Fozzmeister
09-02-2012
Originally Posted by sensoria:
“I don't agree with this bit, he is on his feet he hits the ruck and bind on Jones falls on impact as he is to busy looking the other way, Ryan then binds onto Davies. All the time Ryan is on his feet. It was a hard impact but I don't think that is wrong. I think Botha is an idiot but in that ruck I don't think he deserved the ban.”

There is absolutely no binding by Ryan at the ruck, basically he leads with the shoulder and makes no attempt to bind on to anybody. It's not rucking, it's a shoulder charge.

You see it all the time, people no longer drive up and straight, they fly in with their shoulder, straight off their feet, over the top of the ruck and blast anyone out the way. Thing is, it's become so commonplace to see it that it's just accepted, when its completely illegal.

watch the video below, especially 22 seconds. Where is Ryan's attempt to bind onto any player?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUm9Whlaydc
sensoria
10-02-2012
Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister:
“There is absolutely no binding by Ryan at the ruck, basically he leads with the shoulder and makes no attempt to bind on to anybody. It's not rucking, it's a shoulder charge.

You see it all the time, people no longer drive up and straight, they fly in with their shoulder, straight off their feet, over the top of the ruck and blast anyone out the way. Thing is, it's become so commonplace to see it that it's just accepted, when its completely illegal.

watch the video below, especially 22 seconds. Where is Ryan's attempt to bind onto any player?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUm9Whlaydc”

The people a fault at that ruck are Jones and Davies who are lkooking at what they are going to do next and not what the threat is. I would have done exactly what Ryan does. It isnt his fault that Jones falls over on contact.

Wales had given up on the ruck and were just fannying around at the base. Ryan made them look stupid doing that. I don't believe anything Ryan did was wrong according to the letter of the law..
The Fozzmeister
10-02-2012
Originally Posted by sensoria:
“The people a fault at that ruck are Jones and Davies who are lkooking at what they are going to do next and not what the threat is. I would have done exactly what Ryan does. It isnt his fault that Jones falls over on contact.

Wales had given up on the ruck and were just fannying around at the base. Ryan made them look stupid doing that. I don't believe anything Ryan did was wrong according to the letter of the law..”

The fact that Davies and Jones were 'fannying about' is irrelevant. you say Ryan didn't do anything wrong according to the letter of the law, but, according to the laws you yourself posted, he did.

I'm not saying that Davies was right to up-end him, or that Ryan did anything wrong in trying to counter-ruck. But that wasn't rucking, according to the laws you posted. It was a flying shoulder charge. Simple as.
MR. Macavity
10-02-2012
Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister:
“The fact that Davies and Jones were 'fannying about' is irrelevant. you say Ryan didn't do anything wrong according to the letter of the law, but, according to the laws you yourself posted, he did.

I'm not saying that Davies was right to up-end him, or that Ryan did anything wrong in trying to counter-ruck. But that wasn't rucking, according to the laws you posted. It was a flying shoulder charge. Simple as.”

I have also been surprised at the lack of debate about this - it was just a blatant shoulder drive and there was no attempt to bind with his opponent - not that I could see. None of that excuses Davies actions of course - but it clearly should have been a penalty to Wales in the first instance. If the ref had called 'advantage / I've seen' it may have stopped the incident at source?
sensoria
11-02-2012
Just managed to get hold of a couple of tickets for the Wales game someone has dropped out and sold me the pair for £80 right result.
tealady
11-02-2012
White pitch, white strip, white ball!?
afx237vi
11-02-2012
Originally Posted by tealady:
“White pitch, white strip, white ball!?”

The only thing that isn't white are the lines
afx237vi
11-02-2012
Italy, stop with the aimless kicking already!
tealady
11-02-2012
Whyis the ref refusing to ref the scrums?
tealady
11-02-2012
England keeping their powder dry in attack. Need a big change second half.
skimminstones
11-02-2012
am i the only one thinking how stupid it is to have 3 people freezing their backsides off at pitchside?
Stunty
11-02-2012
Is Dallaglio watching the same match?

He said that England were playing well and it was only two lapses in concewntration that meant they were behind!!!


Can't say I saw much of England pressurising the Italy try line.
Stunty
11-02-2012
Originally Posted by tealady:
“White pitch, white strip, white ball!?”

The RBS logo is in full vision behind the goal lines though.
Stunty
11-02-2012
Dallaglio: 'This England team will come back at them'


Thought I would quote that to review at the end of the match.
henderson211159
11-02-2012
Dallaglio - who I normally have a lot of time for - seems to have his 'England glasses' firmly in place today; some of his asides in the commentary have been little short of disgraceful this afternoon. When Ashton pushed the Italian over as he ran past, it was 'part of the action of tackling', and 'you have to watch the Italians sometimes', he added for good measure. Even Brian Moore - who I detested initially as a commentator - is usually fair in his commentary (he even made a Scot Man of the Match last week). Makes me long for the days of the late, great Bill McLaren.......
richie4eva
11-02-2012
A win is a win, but another scrappy England performance

Can't see Wales, France and Ireland letting them off the hook so easily
tealady
11-02-2012
The ref was so uninterested in the Scrum, the last one ended with a put in to the second row.
England seem to lack power players who will inject enough pace or power to get over the gain line. There is also a lack of precision at the base of the ruck. With a ruck in the r hand firmer and 3 people there, Cole plays Scrum half??
Stunty
11-02-2012
Originally Posted by henderson211159:
“Dallaglio - who I normally have a lot of time for - seems to have his 'England glasses' firmly in place today; some of his asides in the commentary have been little short of disgraceful this afternoon. When Ashton pushed the Italian over as he ran past, it was 'part of the action of tackling', and 'you have to watch the Italians sometimes', he added for good measure. Even Brian Moore - who I detested initially as a commentator - is usually fair in his commentary (he even made a Scot Man of the Match last week). Makes me long for the days of the late, great Bill McLaren.......”

Dallaglio is hopeless. Jeremy Guscott has a far superior read of the game.

As you say,even Brian Moore seems to take off his England glasses now and again, and is at least amusing with his spats with fellow commentators in the box.
Marly Z
11-02-2012
I don't usually watch Rugby but caught the England v Scotland game a few days ago, and also watched the England v Italy game just now. That Owen Farrell kid (think he's only 20?) is an excellent kicker (or whatever the correct term is).

Originally Posted by henderson211159:
“Dallaglio - who I normally have a lot of time for - seems to have his 'England glasses' firmly in place today;”

Yeah I noticed this too. There was at least twice with his commentary during the match where he tried to brush off our penalties and just sounded a bit daft doing so.
tealady
11-02-2012
Originally Posted by henderson211159:
“ Makes me long for the days of the late, great Bill McLaren.......”

Aargh not Bill. "Wonderful play from Scotland there, keeping the ball in hand." No Bill, they are just moving the ball from side to side, they are not actually going forward.

I agree Dallaglio was poor.
TheFridge
11-02-2012
England were a lot better today ( 2nd half mainly ) , i know that wasn't hard after the last match but there was definate improvement , hopefully that will be the last time Ben Youngs plays for quite some time.
tealady
11-02-2012
Originally Posted by TheFridge:
“ hopefully that will be the last time Ben Youngs plays for quite some time.”

Well, hardly. England need him playing as he did at the beginning of his England career. Quite what has gone wrong, I don't know, but he needs to be back where he had the vision to start the try v Australia from behind his goalposts.
MeicY
11-02-2012
France v Ireland postponed.

How the hell does a modern stadium like SdF not have undersoil heating?
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