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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread
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Welsh-lad
25-02-2012
Originally Posted by tealady:
“Hmm at 12-6, you must have been worried. Still women's rugby now ”

Absolutely right. I was eeeeek! And had to go out to the garden.

I wouldn't say it was a good game in terms of the playing- but it was full of tension throughout, and that's always gripping!

Wales doggedly hung in there, and won that way.

(I do think there is a bit of a spin on the BBC's coverage, always on an English slant, not so markedly today because the game and its outcome was fairly ambiguous. But I have seen Wales absolutely thrash England before... cut to the studio, and it's as if they've been watching a different game )

I think England did quite well though, all the same.
Frood
25-02-2012
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“ Absolutely right. I was eeeeek! And had to go out to the garden.

I wouldn't say it was a good game in terms of the playing- but it was full of tension throughout, and that's always gripping!

Wales doggedly hung in there, and won that way.

(I do think there is a bit of a spin on the BBC's coverage, always on an English slant, not so markedly today because the game and its outcome was fairly ambiguous. But I have seen Wales absolutely thrash England before... cut to the studio, and it's as if they've been watching a different game )

I think England did quite well though, all the same.”

What did Wales win by on those occassions - 5 points or similar?

England are the only team that can lose by 5 points and be 'thrashed'.

I've seen England beat Wales by 40 and if an England player (or supporter for that matter) used that term it would be "typical English arrogance".
Welsh-lad
25-02-2012
Originally Posted by Frood:
“What did Wales win by on those occassions - 5 points or similar?

England are the only team that can lose by 5 points and be 'thrashed'.

I've seen England beat Wales by 40 and if an England player (or supporter for that matter) used that term it would be "typical English arrogance".”

Oh I totally agree with you there - you'll always have prickly Welsh people saying that kind of thing, especially on forums or in general discussion. It's silly.
*Nevertheless*, I think when it comes to BBC broadcasts, things should be more objective.

Did you see the BBC news just now?
The item started with a shot of the England huddle before the game... then cue the reporter coming in along the lines of "England, heralded as zeroes became heroes".... then there was more about England... etc.

All a bit anglocentric no? I mean, if it's a UK news programme, it ought at least to open with a picture of the victorious team, and how they won the game.
Smiley433
25-02-2012
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“All a bit anglocentric no? I mean, if it's a UK news programme, it ought at least to open with a picture of the victorious team, and how they won the game.”

Agreed, the analysis and discussion usually centres around how Englad lost the game and what they did wrong rather than the areas the opposition did well in.
The Wulfrunian
25-02-2012
Enjoy that one Wales because that England side will own our daffodil wearing chums for a very long time to come.

Very impressive from the lads and a vast improvement on that is still to come. The Welsh can brow as much as they want, a ridiculously inexperienced and young English side had the best Welsh team for years on the ropes.

And that was after just three games together.
tennisman
25-02-2012
Originally Posted by MeicY:
“On the contrary - sport can matter a great deal in the right context. Ask the Iraqi or Libyan football teams. Ask the North Korean football team. Ask the South African rugby team, circa 1995. Ask Lance Armstrong, or Oscar Pistorius. Sport can matter very much sometimes. ”

And the Makana Football Association.

Or even the Afghanistan Cricket team.
Welsh-lad
25-02-2012
Originally Posted by The Wulfrunian:
“Enjoy that one Wales because that England side will own our daffodil wearing chums for a very long time to come.

Very impressive from the lads and a vast improvement on that is still to come. The Welsh can brow as much as they want, a ridiculously inexperienced and young English side had the best Welsh team for years on the ropes.

And that was after just three games together.”

^^I think I've proved my point.
England *lost*!

The commentators are always like this too. Haughty... and always without grace in defeat.
MeicY
26-02-2012
OK let's try and look at this objectively.

Neither team were "better" than the other. England nullified Wales' attacking nature, were lucky with a tap-tackle denying an early try, and chose to kick themselves into the lead. Wales belied the hype of the media and showed themselves to be what they really are - a developing team themselves.

People say this Wales team has been together for ages, compared to England's "three weeks." Let's reverse 12 months and look at the unenforced changes in the Wales team from last year's England v Wales game (2011 on left, 2012 on right)

15: Hook - Halfpenny
14: Stoddart - Cuthbert
11: Shane - North
10: S Jones - Priestland
8: Powell - Faletau

Those are some pretty key positions - the entire back three, the lynchpins at outside half and number 8, plus the fact we're on our 3rd choice hooker - mean that this Wales team isn't as well-gelled as some would have us believe. Throw into that mix Jamie Roberts going off and you have six, seven players that weren't featuring 12 months ago. Mind you, who'd have thought 12 months ago we'd be sending out teams without either Stephen Jones or James Hook and expecting a solid kicking performance?

England didn't come close to penetrating the Welsh try-line until it was too late, and even then they could only get over upside down with no real discernable downward pressure on the ball. Strettle's attempt was close, but brushing the tips turf momentarily while being held up doesn't count. It's not American football. You need to place the ball on the ground. That wasn't done.

In the build up to that, I'd say advantage doesn't give you an automatic right to a penalty. At least one phase had occurred since Walsh rose his arm. If anything, he played the advantage rule to the letter - you give the attacking team one "free" play. I hate referees who bring play back after several minutes / phases. One phase should be enough.

Having said that, on the whole Walsh seems to have had a shocker. Why award a scrum for interference in the ruck? It's either a penalty or play on. Simple. The guy's a jerk.

No-one can draw conclusions about the future of either team based on this single performance. Wales were below par, England were above par, yet Wales won. This excites me as a Welshman, and should depress the English. After all, the All-Blacks have off days, yet they still win. (World cup final anyone?) To have that sort of mindset - where you have an off day and don't play to your strengths etc, yet STILL win, is good in my book.

Finally, can the BBC please employ an interviewer OTHER than Stupidia O'Gloughlin?
gomezz
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by tealady:
“Didn't think the ref could insist that the Scrum half had to play the ball ay a ruck”

By my reckoning and back in my day the ball was not in the ruck and was fair game.
Dai13371
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by Rossall:
“Well done to Wales.

When they beat us in a Football world cup/euro qualifier where the result matters is when I'll be bothered though.”

Who here gives a toss about wendyball?

England were excellent in defence today. Farrell is a star in the making and Lancaster should get the job permanantly

HQ is a fortress and going there to win is not easy, but by Christ the bois did it and the Triple Crown is ours.
Dai13371
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by The Wulfrunian:
“Enjoy that one Wales because that England side will own our daffodil wearing chums for a very long time to come.

Very impressive from the lads and a vast improvement on that is still to come. The Welsh can brow as much as they want, a ridiculously inexperienced and young English side had the best Welsh team for years on the ropes.

And that was after just three games together.”

How old do you think this Welsh team are. We were the second youngest in the world cup. Scott Williams the try scorer isn't yet 23 and George North is still 19. As for Priestland, Halfpenny, Warburton and Faletau, Lydiate, Tipuric, Jonathan Davies, Cuthbert are all in their early 20s.

This is a young Welsh side too and will be around for a long long time even when the old heads like Phillips, R Jones, A Jones etc are retired.
david1955
26-02-2012
For those of you who think that the BBC is biased towards England , I suggest you listen to 5Live the morning after England have been beaten at either cricket or Rugby Union. The presenters are falling over themselves to have a laugh at how useless England are. Rachel Burden ( who I assume is English) simply cannot hide her delight that England have lost.

It does not apply to football of course which is treated with the utmost reverence and no jokes are allowed about the England football team.

Well done to Wales, it always seemed likely that they would win after England made some strange substitutions and Farrell went off injured
Phil Owens
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by The Wulfrunian:
“Enjoy that one Wales because that England side will own our daffodil wearing chums for a very long time to come.

Very impressive from the lads and a vast improvement on that is still to come. The Welsh can brow as much as they want, a ridiculously inexperienced and young English side had the best Welsh team for years on the ropes.

And that was after just three games together.”

You need to drink something sweet to wash down those sour grapes..
tealady
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“By my reckoning and back in my day the ball was not in the ruck and was fair game.”

Right, but he didn't say 'ball out' and raise his arms to say end of ruck. He just told Dickson to play it, but there is nothing in the rules to give him this power.
Welsh-lad
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“Who here gives a toss about wendyball?”

Best definition of soccer I have ever heard!
Stunty
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by david1955:
“For those of you who think that the BBC is biased towards England , I suggest you listen to 5Live the morning after England have been beaten at either cricket or Rugby Union. The presenters are falling over themselves to have a laugh at how useless England are. Rachel Burden ( who I assume is English) simply cannot hide her delight that England have lost.

It does not apply to football of course which is treated with the utmost reverence and no jokes are allowed about the England football team.

Well done to Wales, it always seemed likely that they would win after England made some strange substitutions and Farrell went off injured”


The BBC have continually started their reports on the match with the fact that England lost, rather than that Wales won and gained the Triple Crown. It does all seem rather odd in the context of the Six Nations, but not so odd given the BBC's usual coverage of all things England, even when they are not even playing!! Odds on that they will give the 'England youngsters fantastic effort' a mention during today's coverage!!

As for Owen Farrell, he wasn't injured but was suffering from cramp, so take that as lack of fitness, not an injury problem.

Still cannot see how some pundits were calling it a 'great match'. It was far from that, and if it had not been for the last 8 minutes where Wales scored and England almost scored, then it would have gone down as a bit of a damp squib.
Phil Owens
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by Stunty:
“The BBC have continually started their reports on the match with the fact that England lost, rather than that Wales won and gained the Triple Crown. It does all seem rather odd in the context of the Six Nations, but not so odd given the BBC's usual coverage of all things England, even when they are not even playing!! Odds on that they will give the 'England youngsters fantastic effort' a mention during today's coverage!!

As for Owen Farrell, he wasn't injured but was suffering from cramp, so take that as lack of fitness, not an injury problem.

Still cannot see how some pundits were calling it a 'great match'. It was far from that, and if it had not been for the last 8 minutes where Wales scored and England almost scored, then it would have gone down as a bit of a damp squib.”

Agreed, I found it boring and lacking pace... Just seem to plod on, not very exciting.. But in the end Wales won after what I thought was a game that could have gone either way...

But phew! we got there in the end....
Frood
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by MeicY:
“15: Hook - Halfpenny
14: Stoddart - Cuthbert
11: Shane - North
10: S Jones - Priestland
8: Powell - Faletau
”

Five of Englands pack had 3 caps or fewer at the start of yesterdays game.

The half backs and centres totalled 12 starts between them.

All bar one of these nine were playing their first international at Twickenham.

And England did not play 'above par'.

They played like a team that has been rebuilt, been together for 3 weeks, set in place a good defensive system and are starting to gel in attack (having played their first two matches in poor weather/pitch conditions).

There were no expectations for this 6 Nations but some of the criticism by the likes of Stuart Barnes (no shock) have been stupid. Brian Moore, always a better judge, had it right in his article during the week when he observed that such a new team always take time to find their identity, especially in attack.

I like the front row - and there will be Marler to add before long (an incredible passer for a prop and strong all round), a little more depth at hooker would be handy.

Botha looks good and with Lawes fit that should be fine for a while.

I've thought for a while that Robshaw was a poor mans Richard Hill (mind you, that's still darn good), Morgan looks good and Croft is one of those criticised if he's not brilliant in one poarticular area but the whole package is overlooked.

Youngs will get his form back and with Dickson, Care, Simpson etc theres great depth. Same at 10 (don't be shocked to see Freddie Burns in before so long with Farrell sliding back to 12 - and Billy Twelvetrees ain;t that far behind Farrell for me).

Tuilagi is a tank, again one with more skill than hes given credit for - and Turner-Hall would impress if given a run.

Even with Ashton slightly out of form the back 3 are fine - and there;s good young depth around.

Lancaster will likely be more aware of the background players in the Saxons and U20s as well.

Too many fans are not patient - if the team and managemnet are they'll be fine.
Frood
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by Phil Owens:
“You need to drink something sweet to wash down those sour grapes.. ”

Yeah, thats Wales job most of the time.

Perhaps you could recommed something
Phil Owens
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by Frood:
“Yeah, thats Wales job most of the time.

Perhaps you could recommed something”

Sure http://bit.ly/zzae73
MeicY
26-02-2012
Phil I bow down to you.

However, I prefer:
http://www.brainsblack.com/brains_bl...ns_black_1.jpg
iamsofired
26-02-2012
Lol forum handbags.
vaughan6477
26-02-2012
Handbags are fun but lets all wish the best to one of the greatest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17009483

Hope he gets a donor soon.
tealady
26-02-2012
Shock horror! Scotland scored a try. Ok they had to create form a pass that went wrong, but they all count. Will still lose though.
MeicY
26-02-2012
Originally Posted by tealady:
“Shock horror! Scotland scored a try. Ok they had to create form a pass that went wrong, but they all count. Will still lose though.”

Shock Horror! A Scottish player leaves the field on a stretcher.
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