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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread
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sensoria
14-02-2011
Originally Posted by Marmite Baby:
“First time I saw Chris Ashton play for Northampton 3 years ago, I thought he was an exceptional talent even though the opposition was poor & he was very raw adjusting to the different rugby codes. I've never thought anything about his swallow diving but I think he needs to curb the raised finger beforehand.”

Yeah I think the raised finger is going to see him get some late hit at some point in the future. I would probably stamp on him at some point if he did it in a game I played. love the swollow dive though I would prefer to see the ball in 2 hands.
sensoria
14-02-2011
Originally Posted by tealady:
“I think you missed out 'the scrum' there.”

No just collapsing and losing.....Scotland is the one the terrifies me!

We don't collapse scrums..................unless they are going backwards,
tealady
14-02-2011
I thought you were worried about Domingo. Hope Rowntree has worked out a good tactic for dealing with him though.
tealady
14-02-2011
Originally Posted by sensoria:
“Yeah I think the raised finger is going to see him get some late hit at some point in the future.”

I thought he got one after his first try from the Italian 13.
Dai13371
15-02-2011
Originally Posted by vaughan6477:
“We have reached that standard of rugby , in the two grandslams over the past six years. You are right that we enjoyed ourselves as England may well get to with a GS but they have tough tests to come. England were very clinical but Italy were utterly abysmal. and the ref really gave up on them after the opening 20 minutes. You are equally as bad as us Welsh in over-reacting to a victory or two. England have yet to face a team with a well organised defence in this tournament. Once they'd attacked the channel of the awful Italian fly half early today , they knew it would work for them all afternoon.
France and Ireland should get parity with you up front then you will struggle as their backs are superior.It happened to England against the boks in the Autumn. Other than Ashton , the England backs have little threat apart from running the support angles of the former rugby league player. It says more about the poor standard of the 6nations overall that Englands current style will be lauded by the media. I will agree that on current form , themselves and France do look better than the rest.”

If the Welsh had been more clinical we would have taken apart England in that first match. They won by 7 points, not 17 or 20 or 30, just 7 and we threatened their line right til the end. This is what frustrates me about Team Wales. We can win and win well but we do not do the basics, we are not clinical enough and we do not take our chances when they come. We should have scored four plus tries in Cardiff not one. Andy Powell grubbers over the dead ball line, Shane Williams??? grubbers to nowhere, Morgan Stoddart dropping the cross kick. Come one lads, this is basic stuff. This is try scoring stuff.

Chris Ashton has a great union future ahead of him. Being cocky with the swallow dives is nothing new. Shane used to do it. Now he seems nonchalant and why not, a veteran with 55 tries under his belt and has to prove nothing.
Dai13371
15-02-2011
Originally Posted by tealady:
“You are underestimating the role which Flood is playing. He is a significantly better player than 2 to 3 years ago. Ashton would not be scoring those tries without the input of Flood.”

Got to agree. Toby flood is coming on leaps and bounds. Great replacement for Wilko without a doubt.
Frood
16-02-2011
Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“If the Welsh had been more clinical we would have taken apart England in that first match. They won by 7 points, not 17 or 20 or 30,”

If England had been more clinical they would have won by 20+.

Their passing in that game was nowhere near as sharp or accurate as it usually is and kept slowing down potentially dangerous moves.

I first saw Ashton playing rugby league for Wigan.

He announced he was going to union at the start of the league season but hoped to play out that season before joining Northampton.

The Wigan fans (and the oppositions) gave him such a rough time he only played 4 or 5 games.

They knew they were losing something very special.
sensoria
16-02-2011
I am taking some clients to the Leicester v Wasps game on Saturday we are sponsering the match ball and have a great hospitality package. I fear Liecester are going to spank Wasps but hoping for a full ground. Should be fun anyway.
bamber
17-02-2011
Originally Posted by Frood:
“If England had been more clinical they would have won by 20+.

Their passing in that game was nowhere near as sharp or accurate as it usually is and kept slowing down potentially dangerous moves.

I first saw Ashton playing rugby league for Wigan.

He announced he was going to union at the start of the league season but hoped to play out that season before joining Northampton.

The Wigan fans (and the oppositions) gave him such a rough time he only played 4 or 5 games.

They knew they were losing something very special.”


disagree.

As a season ticket holder who also goes to many away games as well. i can tell you that we knew we were losing a GOOD player and that was it, the potential was there.

He was great going forward but his defence was awful and a lot of improvement was needed.

The club was not going to break the wage structure,(most fans where in support of not paying what he was demanding) possible not able too with the shambolic way it was being run back then (deducted four points), to keep him.

He played 20 games in his final season scoring 12 tries, his last game being 5 august and wigan's last game that season being 5 october.

The stick from wigan fans towards him was because he looked and started to play as though he could not be arsed his form dipped and it was clear for all to see that his head was elsewhere.he was already doing photo shoots for Northampton similar to the Paul ince west ham/manutd thing.
Dai13371
17-02-2011
Originally Posted by Frood:
“If England had been more clinical they would have won by 20+.

Their passing in that game was nowhere near as sharp or accurate as it usually is and kept slowing down potentially dangerous moves.

I first saw Ashton playing rugby league for Wigan.

He announced he was going to union at the start of the league season but hoped to play out that season before joining Northampton.

The Wigan fans (and the oppositions) gave him such a rough time he only played 4 or 5 games.

They knew they were losing something very special.”


Possibly, but England took all their chances (maybe for the reasons you described) and scored twice. Wales had four or more chances and scored once. Probably fair to say If both teams had not underachieved it would have been a superb match that would have been remembered for a long time
sensoria
17-02-2011
Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“Possibly, but England took all their chances (maybe for the reasons you described) and scored twice. Wales had four or more chances and scored once. Probably fair to say If both teams had not underachieved it would have been a superb match that would have been remembered for a long time”

I thought it was memorable, England beat Wales in Cardiff, thats always memorable. I don't care how they do it as long as they win. The result was the right result.
Mike Teevee
17-02-2011
Hanks leaves Wasps

well the recent results have been a bit poor, but it's a shame he's left

god knows who's gonna take over, Shaun isn't or can't do the job fulltime with his Wales duties
I love Ellie
17-02-2011
Originally Posted by Frood:
“If England had been more clinical they would have won by 20+.

Their passing in that game was nowhere near as sharp or accurate as it usually is and kept slowing down potentially dangerous moves.

I first saw Ashton playing rugby league for Wigan.

He announced he was going to union at the start of the league season but hoped to play out that season before joining Northampton.

The Wigan fans (and the oppositions) gave him such a rough time he only played 4 or 5 games.

They knew they were losing something very special.”

I too saw Ashton play RL for Wigan.
I didn't think he was anything special for them.
He was certainly no Sam Tompkins, now THERE'S a player RL need to keep.
sensoria
17-02-2011
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“Hanks leaves Wasps

well the recent results have been a bit poor, but it's a shame he's left

god knows who's gonna take over, Shaun isn't or can't do the job fulltime with his Wales duties”

I have a real fear it is going to be Dean Ryan.
Phred
18-02-2011
Originally Posted by sensoria:
“I have a real fear it is going to be Dean Ryan.”

I am not too worried if it is Dean Ryan - if it was Judas Andrews I would really be spitting bricks about it.

I think they will appoint an interim direcor of rugby, possibly an internal appointment like Rob Smith, for the remainder of the season, and go for a big name later. The Times says it is Gats they want, but he has committed himself to Wales, and I don't think his family want to come and live back in the UK.

Whoever it is they need to be a stronger character than TH, as they need to standup to the current board (including Dallaglio) who seem to be putting the idea of a new stadium over ensuring the team stays successful.

In the meantime I can see us losing many good players, and not being able to recruit many replacements until the new DOR is announced, and by then I fear we might well be championship bound.
Frood
18-02-2011
Originally Posted by I love Ellie:
“I too saw Ashton play RL for Wigan.
I didn't think he was anything special for them.
He was certainly no Sam Tompkins, now THERE'S a player RL need to keep.”

Not so sure about Tompkins.

The best player (or certainly most interesting) I've seen appear in English RL for years is Kyle Eastmond.

Don't be stunned if he goes to Union - if not now then in a couple of years.

Could see him as a scrum half or fly half - possibly even inside centre in union.

And the way Hemmings and Stephenson went on when Ashton announced he was switching codes suggested they thought very highly of him.

Wasps are in danger of becoming Newcastle - perenially in the relegation frame but surviving in the top flight.
I love Ellie
18-02-2011
Originally Posted by Frood:
“Not so sure about Tompkins.

The best player (or certainly most interesting) I've seen appear in English RL for years is Kyle Eastmond.

Don't be stunned if he goes to Union - if not now then in a couple of years.

Could see him as a scrum half or fly half - possibly even inside centre in union.

And the way Hemmings and Stephenson went on when Ashton announced he was switching codes suggested they thought very highly of him.

Wasps are in danger of becoming Newcastle - perenially in the relegation frame but surviving in the top flight.”


Eastmond is indeed good, but in my view, Tompkins is just that bit above him.
sensoria
18-02-2011
Originally Posted by Frood:
“Not so sure about Tompkins.

The best player (or certainly most interesting) I've seen appear in English RL for years is Kyle Eastmond.

Don't be stunned if he goes to Union - if not now then in a couple of years.

Could see him as a scrum half or fly half - possibly even inside centre in union.

And the way Hemmings and Stephenson went on when Ashton announced he was switching codes suggested they thought very highly of him.

Wasps are in danger of becoming Newcastle - perenially in the relegation frame but surviving in the top flight.”

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...758930,00.html

i think eastmund might be sooner than later.
Frood
18-02-2011
Originally Posted by I love Ellie:
“Eastmond is indeed good, but in my view, Tompkins is just that bit above him.”

Eastmond is the first rugby league player in several years to make me think 'wow'.
vaughan6477
19-02-2011
Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“If the Welsh had been more clinical we would have taken apart England in that first match. They won by 7 points, not 17 or 20 or 30, just 7 and we threatened their line right til the end. This is what frustrates me about Team Wales. We can win and win well but we do not do the basics, we are not clinical enough and we do not take our chances when they come. We should have scored four plus tries in Cardiff not one. Andy Powell grubbers over the dead ball line, Shane Williams??? grubbers to nowhere, Morgan Stoddart dropping the cross kick. Come one lads, this is basic stuff. This is try scoring stuff.

Chris Ashton has a great union future ahead of him. Being cocky with the swallow dives is nothing new. Shane used to do it. Now he seems nonchalant and why not, a veteran with 55 tries under his belt and has to prove nothing.”

We are a team that always needs to dig deep to find confidence in Wales. I'd rather not see the likes of Powell and Stoddard in the starting xv at the moment but I guess the injury situation has dictated selection for Gatland. Looking back prior to the '05 Grandslam , it seemed we were shipping 40-50 points against England in particular and sometimes France and Ireland every year. In that respect we've come on in leaps and bounds. Many of the defeats in the last year came against the traditional "Big Five" countries in world terms and were rarely by more than a score.
The result at Murrayfield was a pleasant surprise , especially as we didn't play our best rugby. Their overconfidence going into the fixture helped us and it was good to see us grind out a comprehensive win on the scoreboard. Beat Italy and we could be looking at 3 wins this campaign , our best Six Nations since 2008. Who knows if we front up to Ireland and win , we could be playing with a certain amount of pressure off in Paris, especially if France are going for the title and maybe Grandslam.
Next weekend in Rome is a critical match for Gatland. Win and win well and things look rosey going into the last two matches. Losing would be a massive blow , although he could cite the injury situation. Don't forget we have Gethin Jenkins , Adam Jones , Leigh Halfpenny , George North and maybe a certain Henson to come back in before the world cup.
vaughan6477
22-02-2011
Wales 22 for Italy
Lee Byrne (Ospreys); Morgan Stoddart (Scarlets), James Hook (Ospreys), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Ospreys); Paul James (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets, capt), Craig Mitchell (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues), Ryan Jones (Ospreys).
Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), John Yapp (Blues), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).

A bit dissapointed Hook has to go back to the centre due to Johnathan Davies injury. Great that Leigh Halfpenny is back on the bench at least. George North is also returning for the Scarlets this weekend. Should win this one with our confident heads on. Scrum will be the strongest part of Italys game.
ff999
22-02-2011
Originally Posted by vaughan6477:
“Wales 22 for Italy
Lee Byrne (Ospreys); Morgan Stoddart (Scarlets), James Hook (Ospreys), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Ospreys); Paul James (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets, capt), Craig Mitchell (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues), Ryan Jones (Ospreys).
Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), John Yapp (Blues), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).

A bit dissapointed Hook has to go back to the centre due to Johnathan Davies injury. Great that Leigh Halfpenny is back on the bench at least. George North is also returning for the Scarlets this weekend. Should win this one with our confident heads on. Scrum will be the strongest part of Italys game.”

Am going to the game on Saturday
vaughan6477
22-02-2011
Originally Posted by ff999:
“Am going to the game on Saturday ”

Enjoy and take a fair bit of cash as Rome can be quite expensive
tealady
23-02-2011
France going for a back row with no open side flanker. Might struggle at the breakdown. Perhaps they are hoping to win with the boot of Yachvili from all those penalties at the scrum!
England to score 2-0 tries but still lose.
sensoria
24-02-2011
Originally Posted by tealady:
“France going for a back row with no open side flanker. Might struggle at the breakdown. Perhaps they are hoping to win with the boot of Yachvili from all those penalties at the scrum!
England to score 2-0 tries but still lose.”

I actually think Dusitur is more a 7 playing 6 anyway so I don't think they will give much away there. The selection of Nallet and Chabal is an interesting one. For the first time you have a world class team facing England and actually looking at how to stop England as opposed to how to play. Taking away Julian Bonnair is a huge call. A consistanly good rugby player replaced by the hot and cold chabal. They have picked chabal to scare the English but the English know him better than anyone. Which helps reduce the fear. Yachvilli for Parra is a very big call but Parra is tempremental and would be targeted.

I think you are being a bit unfair about the scrum penalties. Most teams England face fail to scrummage properly. France will be a tough battle there but I imagine it will be a 50/50 penalty count at the scrum.
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