T-Mobile Roaming Changes - Cause to Cancel?

danall2 · 11-09-2009, 11:42

Hi,

I just got a text from t-mobile saying that:

"From 26 October we're changing some of our roaming rates outside the EU, to find out how these changes affect you when you're abroad see t-mobile.co.uk/row"

Does this give us a way to cancel the contract eary due to the change of the terms of the contract that was originally sold?

Thanks for your help.

plymouthbloke1974 · 13-09-2009, 14:28

No. Roaming is an additional service so you cannot cancel, no.

DXRulz · 13-09-2009, 14:38

I'm on T-Mobile and i haven't got that text yet?

S-T-E-V-E · 13-09-2009, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

No. Roaming is an additional service so you cannot cancel, no.

It may be an additional service but its a service provided under the terms of the airtime agreement all the same.

plymouthbloke1974 · 13-09-2009, 21:11

Yes, but you cannot cancel your contract due to roaming charge increases.

iRuss · 13-09-2009, 21:32

As it's something that can cause you to increase your costs I *believe* it's grounds for giving notice to end the contract. I'm not in work til thursday but I'll check then.

mpk81 · 14-09-2009, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

Yes, but you cannot cancel your contract due to roaming charge increases.

Loads of Three customers got out of their contracts when they changed their roaming policies recently.

gizzy77 · 14-09-2009, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpk81

Loads of Three customers got out of their contracts when they changed their roaming policies recently.

Slightly different situation though. They removed the three like home service which was specifically in the T&C when most users signed their contracts.

plymouthbloke1974 · 14-09-2009, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRuss

As it's something that can cause you to increase your costs I *believe* it's grounds for giving notice to end the contract. I'm not in work til thursday but I'll check then.

Roaming is not a core part of your T+C's on any network, therefore as it is an additional service, there are no grounds to cancel.

iRuss · 14-09-2009, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

Roaming is not a core part of your T+C's on any network, therefore as it is an additional service, there are no grounds to cancel.

If T-Mobile changes the T&Cs in such a way that the potential is there for your bills to be more than what you were told at POS then there are grounds for ending the contract but like I said I'll find out for sure at the end of the week.

mpk81 · 14-09-2009, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

Roaming is not a core part of your T+C's on any network, therefore as it is an additional service, there are no grounds to cancel.

If you regularly travel to, say Switzerland, and use your mobile there you would definitely have grounds to cancel.

Appleseed · 14-09-2009, 14:52

I'm keen to see what pans out here and whether anyone posts a success story. I was very happy with T-Mobile, but now it's a waste of time trying to get anything sorted with them and that stupid overseas callcentre they insist on putting upon us.
I'm def going to try and release myself if I get the text (or even if I don't) should I see any success here.

plymouthbloke1974 · 14-09-2009, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRuss

If T-Mobile changes the T&Cs in such a way that the potential is there for your bills to be more than what you were told at POS then there are grounds for ending the contract but like I said I'll find out for sure at the end of the week.

No need to. I have checked with T-Mobile CS and Roaming is classed as an additonal service. Henceforth, these T+C's apply...

Quote:

2.12.6. We can increase the Charge for that Additional Service as set out in point 7.1.4. If that happens, points 7.2.3.2 and 7.2.3.3 will also apply to You, so that You can give Us notice to terminate that Additional Service with a minimum period without paying the Charge described in point 2.12.5 above. However, if You also give Us notice to terminate this entire Agreement as described in point 7.2.1, then You may have to pay a Cancellation Charge; and

2.12.7. if You or We terminate Your Price Plan and therefore this Agreement, any Additional Services with a minimum period will automatically be terminated too. The Charge described in point 2.12.5 above may then apply to that

Additional Service unless point 7.2.3 below applies.

In other words, if T-Mobile wish to raise the costs of roaming in a certain country, you can choose to cancel the additional service without charge (ie; Remove roaming from the account) - however if you wish to terminate your contract, you have to pay a cancellation fee.

Hope that clears this up.

Appleseed · 14-09-2009, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

No need to. I have checked with T-Mobile CS and Roaming is classed as an additonal service. Henceforth, these T+C's apply...

In other words, if T-Mobile wish to raise the costs of roaming in a certain country, you can choose to cancel the additional service without charge (ie; Remove roaming from the account) - however if you wish to terminate your contract, you have to pay a cancellation fee.

Hope that clears this up.

Nowhere in those T&Cs does it say WILL have to pay a charge, it says MAY have to pay one.
Yes, you're probably right but there's no doubt that some will try and use it to terminate, so all i'm saying is that if someone DOES manage to break free i'd like to know how they did it so I can try too. If not i'll just have to wait til next June instead.

Appleseed · 14-09-2009, 16:43

Right, the Text has arrived as per above discussion so let's see what happens.

DXRulz · 14-09-2009, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleseed

Right, the Text has arrived as per above discussion so let's see what happens.

And i still haven't got one?

Appleseed · 15-09-2009, 19:17

Anyone phoned T-Mobile and tried to wriggle free as a result of the text yet? To be honest I think it's going to be a non-starter but it'll be interesting to know if anyone manages it.

iRuss · 15-09-2009, 19:28

I said I'll find out for certain on thursday.

Thine Wonk · 15-09-2009, 20:51

Usually service providers come up with new tariffs or stop offering price plans so that the next time you renew your contract you agree to the new terms, but the deal continued the same until then.

3 and others have decided to make these changes outside of a specific tariff or plan, which can mean that the contract is arguably changed significantly for some users. Out of good will and not wanting negative PR they often allow the small number of people who wish to exit the contract do so.

Anybody interested in consumer contracts should read the OFT Unfair contract terms may be useful. Especially the section on price changes and rights of cancellation.

Quote:

Unfair contract terms guidance
Guidance for the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts
Regulations 1999

Quote:

Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they
have the object or effect of:
(l)
providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of
delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to
increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the
corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too
high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was
concluded

Quote:

12.4
A degree of flexibility in pricing may be achieved fairly in the following
ways.30
• Where the level and timing of any price increases are specified (within
narrow limits if not precisely) they effectively form part of the agreed
price. As such they are acceptable, provided the details are clearly and
adequately drawn to the consumer's attention.
• Terms which permit increases linked to a relevant published price index
such as the RPI are likely to be acceptable, as paragraph 2 of Schedule
2 to the Regulations indicates, subject to the same proviso.
• Any kind of variation clause may in principle be fair if consumers are
free to escape its effects by ending the contract. To be genuinely free
to cancel, they must not be left worse off for having entered the
contract, whether by experiencing financial loss (for example, forfeiture
of a prepayment) or serious inconvenience, or any other adverse
consequences

The key thing is that the contact may be unfair if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded.

So T-mobile have drawn up the contract correctly and made provisions for the event of price change. If they don't honour cancellation then it would be up to you to argue in small claims whether the contract is unfair. You would have to prove that, i.e showing that it will impact you a lot due to previous roaming called or planned travelling etc. making it unfair and significant.

iRuss · 15-09-2009, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRuss

I said I'll find out for certain on thursday.

Apologies for sounding arsey - it sounded more reasonable in my head before I typed it

Thine Wonk · 15-09-2009, 21:23

This is also a similar case with Orange http://www.bitterwallet.com/bitterwa...-charges/16612 but in the Orange case the company was forced into not making the price changes because of the amount of cancellations and negative press by the looks of it. Many people did get their contracts cancelled and this was in the last few weeks.

Appleseed · 16-09-2009, 11:11

This might of interest in this thread.

http://www.bitterwallet.com/tag/t-mobile

Appleseed · 17-09-2009, 22:16

Anyone had a go yet?

Appleseed · 19-09-2009, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRuss

I said I'll find out for certain on thursday.

It's Saturday. Any news?

11-09-2009, 11:42	#1
danall2 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 63	T-Mobile Roaming Changes - Cause to Cancel? Hi, I just got a text from t-mobile saying that: "From 26 October we're changing some of our roaming rates outside the EU, to find out how these changes affect you when you're abroad see t-mobile.co.uk/row" Does this give us a way to cancel the contract eary due to the change of the terms of the contract that was originally sold? Thanks for your help.

13-09-2009, 14:28	#2
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	No. Roaming is an additional service so you cannot cancel, no.

13-09-2009, 14:38	#3
DXRulz Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oswestry, Shropshire Posts: 4,196	I'm on T-Mobile and i haven't got that text yet?

13-09-2009, 17:02	#4
S-T-E-V-E Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 844	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 No. Roaming is an additional service so you cannot cancel, no. It may be an additional service but its a service provided under the terms of the airtime agreement all the same.

13-09-2009, 21:11	#5
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Yes, but you cannot cancel your contract due to roaming charge increases.

13-09-2009, 21:32	#6
iRuss Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 470	As it's something that can cause you to increase your costs I believe it's grounds for giving notice to end the contract. I'm not in work til thursday but I'll check then.

14-09-2009, 08:56	#7
mpk81 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: West Posts: 922	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 Yes, but you cannot cancel your contract due to roaming charge increases. Loads of Three customers got out of their contracts when they changed their roaming policies recently.

14-09-2009, 09:09	#8
gizzy77 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 735	Quote: Originally Posted by mpk81 Loads of Three customers got out of their contracts when they changed their roaming policies recently. Slightly different situation though. They removed the three like home service which was specifically in the T&C when most users signed their contracts.

14-09-2009, 10:42	#9
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Quote: Originally Posted by iRuss As it's something that can cause you to increase your costs I believe it's grounds for giving notice to end the contract. I'm not in work til thursday but I'll check then. Roaming is not a core part of your T+C's on any network, therefore as it is an additional service, there are no grounds to cancel.

14-09-2009, 12:27	#10
iRuss Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 470	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 Roaming is not a core part of your T+C's on any network, therefore as it is an additional service, there are no grounds to cancel. If T-Mobile changes the T&Cs in such a way that the potential is there for your bills to be more than what you were told at POS then there are grounds for ending the contract but like I said I'll find out for sure at the end of the week.

14-09-2009, 12:33	#11
mpk81 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: West Posts: 922	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 Roaming is not a core part of your T+C's on any network, therefore as it is an additional service, there are no grounds to cancel. If you regularly travel to, say Switzerland, and use your mobile there you would definitely have grounds to cancel.

14-09-2009, 14:52	#12
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	I'm keen to see what pans out here and whether anyone posts a success story. I was very happy with T-Mobile, but now it's a waste of time trying to get anything sorted with them and that stupid overseas callcentre they insist on putting upon us. I'm def going to try and release myself if I get the text (or even if I don't) should I see any success here.

14-09-2009, 15:24	#13
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Quote: Originally Posted by iRuss If T-Mobile changes the T&Cs in such a way that the potential is there for your bills to be more than what you were told at POS then there are grounds for ending the contract but like I said I'll find out for sure at the end of the week. No need to. I have checked with T-Mobile CS and Roaming is classed as an additonal service. Henceforth, these T+C's apply... Quote: 2.12.6. We can increase the Charge for that Additional Service as set out in point 7.1.4. If that happens, points 7.2.3.2 and 7.2.3.3 will also apply to You, so that You can give Us notice to terminate that Additional Service with a minimum period without paying the Charge described in point 2.12.5 above. However, if You also give Us notice to terminate this entire Agreement as described in point 7.2.1, then You may have to pay a Cancellation Charge; and 2.12.7. if You or We terminate Your Price Plan and therefore this Agreement, any Additional Services with a minimum period will automatically be terminated too. The Charge described in point 2.12.5 above may then apply to that Additional Service unless point 7.2.3 below applies. In other words, if T-Mobile wish to raise the costs of roaming in a certain country, you can choose to cancel the additional service without charge (ie; Remove roaming from the account) - however if you wish to terminate your contract, you have to pay a cancellation fee. Hope that clears this up.

14-09-2009, 15:36	#14
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 No need to. I have checked with T-Mobile CS and Roaming is classed as an additonal service. Henceforth, these T+C's apply... In other words, if T-Mobile wish to raise the costs of roaming in a certain country, you can choose to cancel the additional service without charge (ie; Remove roaming from the account) - however if you wish to terminate your contract, you have to pay a cancellation fee. Hope that clears this up. Nowhere in those T&Cs does it say WILL have to pay a charge, it says MAY have to pay one. Yes, you're probably right but there's no doubt that some will try and use it to terminate, so all i'm saying is that if someone DOES manage to break free i'd like to know how they did it so I can try too. If not i'll just have to wait til next June instead.

14-09-2009, 16:43	#15
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	Right, the Text has arrived as per above discussion so let's see what happens.

14-09-2009, 16:47	#16
DXRulz Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oswestry, Shropshire Posts: 4,196	Quote: Originally Posted by Appleseed Right, the Text has arrived as per above discussion so let's see what happens. And i still haven't got one?

15-09-2009, 19:17	#17
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	Anyone phoned T-Mobile and tried to wriggle free as a result of the text yet? To be honest I think it's going to be a non-starter but it'll be interesting to know if anyone manages it.

15-09-2009, 19:28	#18
iRuss Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 470	I said I'll find out for certain on thursday.

15-09-2009, 20:51	#19
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Usually service providers come up with new tariffs or stop offering price plans so that the next time you renew your contract you agree to the new terms, but the deal continued the same until then. 3 and others have decided to make these changes outside of a specific tariff or plan, which can mean that the contract is arguably changed significantly for some users. Out of good will and not wanting negative PR they often allow the small number of people who wish to exit the contract do so. Anybody interested in consumer contracts should read the OFT Unfair contract terms may be useful. Especially the section on price changes and rights of cancellation. Quote: Unfair contract terms guidance Guidance for the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Quote: Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of: (l) providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded Quote: 12.4 A degree of flexibility in pricing may be achieved fairly in the following ways.30 • Where the level and timing of any price increases are specified (within narrow limits if not precisely) they effectively form part of the agreed price. As such they are acceptable, provided the details are clearly and adequately drawn to the consumer's attention. • Terms which permit increases linked to a relevant published price index such as the RPI are likely to be acceptable, as paragraph 2 of Schedule 2 to the Regulations indicates, subject to the same proviso. • Any kind of variation clause may in principle be fair if consumers are free to escape its effects by ending the contract. To be genuinely free to cancel, they must not be left worse off for having entered the contract, whether by experiencing financial loss (for example, forfeiture of a prepayment) or serious inconvenience, or any other adverse consequences The key thing is that the contact may be unfair if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded. So T-mobile have drawn up the contract correctly and made provisions for the event of price change. If they don't honour cancellation then it would be up to you to argue in small claims whether the contract is unfair. You would have to prove that, i.e showing that it will impact you a lot due to previous roaming called or planned travelling etc. making it unfair and significant.

15-09-2009, 21:00	#20
iRuss Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 470	Quote: Originally Posted by iRuss I said I'll find out for certain on thursday. Apologies for sounding arsey - it sounded more reasonable in my head before I typed it

15-09-2009, 21:23	#21
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	This is also a similar case with Orange http://www.bitterwallet.com/bitterwa...-charges/16612 but in the Orange case the company was forced into not making the price changes because of the amount of cancellations and negative press by the looks of it. Many people did get their contracts cancelled and this was in the last few weeks.

DS Forums

T-Mobile Roaming Changes - Cause to Cancel?

16-09-2009, 11:11	#22
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	This might of interest in this thread. http://www.bitterwallet.com/tag/t-mobile

17-09-2009, 22:16	#23
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	Anyone had a go yet?

19-09-2009, 11:25	#24
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	Quote: Originally Posted by iRuss I said I'll find out for certain on thursday. It's Saturday. Any news?