I agree!

Prince could've quite easily made Purple Rain 2,3,4, etc......but refused to do so!

Off the wall commercial? I think not. Songs like Human nature and Man in the mirror are commercial pop? I think not.

He did far more than just 'pop' music and its very narrow minded to say his music was just 'commerical'.

He is indeed the king of pop but his music covers a wide range of genres.

Im amazed that you have had the time to ask every single music historian in the world.

Has Prince's music had the impact that MJ's did? Im afraid I just dont agree with that. Particually the last part.

He did his moonwalk because it was his signiture move. What do you expect him to do?

The arguments between Prince and MJ fans has gone on for decades now and we never ever agree on anything. Oh well

Prince is excellent but Michael will always be held on another level by most people. He is thought of musically the way he is because he deserves it.

Prince has not achieved what Michael Jackson did in his carear.

Michael thought greatly of Prince.....hence his son's name...........how-ever .........Prince didn't think the same of Michael...........hence his denial for a duet lol.

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Prince. The word 'genius' is used too easily these days (not a dig at MJ), but IMO Prince truly deserves the title.

Totally agree!!

I seen prince live in 2007 at the o2 and I was BLOWN away!!

Err don't flatter Prince. Michael's grandfather was called Prince and both his sons were named after him. Nice try though.

you clearly don't know what you are talking about, and that's the problem that's almost always encountered when trying to discuss MJ in an impartial manner. most of his fans don't have a wide knowledge of music to compare against the work of MJ

but not understanding the meaning of commerical popular contemporary music is just ridiculous, unless you are taking the piss or trolling. it's not even a derogatory term

MJ's music is pop, pure and simple. there is elements of soul, rnb, funk and disco cumulating in contemporary popular music, or pop for short. he hasn't created any jazz albums, no rock albums, no dance albums, all his music strictly follows the same style and genre. having eddie van halen, slash or steve stevens play a bit of guitar on a track doesn't make it a rock track

human nature and man in the mirror are million selling hit songs, that's the very definition of commercial. they aren't progressive tracks in any definition of the term whatsoever

one thing is for sure, MJ firmly kept to the same genre of music throughout his career, and never even slightly moved from that yellow brick road. all his biggest fans will confirm that to you. having slight hints of other styles of music in pop songs does not mean you have explored new directions in music. when people talk about the different genres that prince plays it's because he has recorded and released so much music he literally has full albums of different genres, such as a half dozen jazz albums, rock albums, a classical operetic album, accoustic guitar album, accoustic piano album, a rap based album, etc. he's even touched on country, reggae, dance music and a whole bunch of other styles, some more succesfully than others, but the point is he looks for new directions and styles and ways to progress his sound, experimentation sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, but you don't know until you try. you would never get MJ releasing an album of new instrumental music, or an accoustic album, he's just kept to the same theme all along. there's nothing wrong with that, it suits him well as a vocalist, and commerical popular contemporary music is the most well suited genre for him, as that's where major sales lie

to say MJ covers more styles than pop is pointless for one, and stretching the boundaries of reality for another

there are many truly great and respected artists who firmly stuck to a particular genre and did it well, sinatra, areatha, marvin, stevie, etc, and no-one would ever put them down because of it. some artists like james brown and elvis made albums with different genres, but it was the main style that fans appreciated the most. people wanted to hear james brown get funky, not play the blues, and they wanted rock n roll from elvis, not his gospel albums. MJ never released a rock album, gospel album, soul album, country, or jazz album, they were all rnb based pop, which turned out to be a lucrative genre for him

he was the king of pop, but pop music is disposable throwaway commercial music, that's why no-one wants to challenge his title. people want to be the new king of rock n roll, the godfather of soul, the funk godfather, the queen of soul, but the king of pop isn't as appealing a title to true musicians who don't want to be pigeon holed

This thread reminds me of a Prince quote in the eighties.

Prince was being asked about what he thought of MJ's 'Bad' album-his response??

'The reason he called it 'Bad' is because he couldn't fit 'pathetic' on the sleeve!'

actually when prince was around 13 he had a covers band that played local venues. prince used to hear hits on the radio, and simply by hearing the tracks he would teach the other members of the band to play, and they would cover tracks including those of the jackson 5 as they were one of the most popular bands in the 70s

in the 80s MJ and prince became friends to some degree. MJ used to visit prince at his paisley park studio and send him video tapes of sly and the family stone gigs (as MJ owned the rights). madonna mentioned at the VMA's her time with MJ, but she also dated prince for a bit before she married sean.

bad was originally written as a duet between prince and MJ, but prince refused as he read the lyrics. about the opening line, he said, well i ain't singing that to you, and you damn sure ain't singing it to me ("your butt is mine"). wesley snipes took prince's place in the video for bad as the rival gang member

prince hasn't commented on MJ's passing, but even in recent years he had covered billie jean, dancing machine, don't stop till you get enough, what have you done for me lately (janet), and bad was part of an 80s medley he did in 88. he hasn't played these tracks at "normal" gigs, but does at soundchecks, aftershows and other private or informal gigs

MJ also used prince's friends jam and lewis to produce some of his work, as did janet. MJ was influenced by prince more than most people know. the keyboards to thriller were copied from 1999 for example. just listen to one after the other and pay attention to the main keyboard chord riffs

prince doesn't need to duet with other people, and he is more of a fan of female vocalists, which is why he has never released a duet with another male singer, only with female vocalists, such as madonna. his influence is all over the like a virgin album, and he played on four of the tracks on the album

prince is a jehovas witness, and they are a bit strange when it comes to certain things like funerals, and with MJ being an ex JW, which apparently is heavily frowned upon, once you are in, if you leave you are completely cut off, so that's probably the reason why he hasn't referred to it. prince doesn't normally comment on current events anyway, so it's not really that strange. MJ similarly rarely made public comments about events either, so why should you expect prince to do the same?

Unique has given some incredible posts in this thread. He has also done it in a very fair manner and not tried to attack MJ in any way, simply stating facts and opinion.

MJ fans will always prefer MJ, after all that is what being a "fan" is all about and thats cool but i dont see how anyone can argue with the majority of what he has said. I found it incredibly interesting.

As an aside i suspect he is a huge MJ fan who has simply "moved on" to Prince. That seems ok to me too.

I agree with what Iain said, I've often said on here that Prince's output in the 80's would be a fantastic career for anybody.

I don't know if anybody on here ever saw the def-II programme in 1989 about Prince, but little Richard said at the time that Prince should hold back his product a little bit so that people would appreciate him more. In hindsight he was probably correct....

Also on the same programme was an awesome bit of bass playing from Prince. He was listening to Partyman and he suddenly picked up the bass guitar and started playing along...it was fantastic.....

I think I've still got it on video somewhere but the quality's probably a bit ropey now......

I wasn't born until 1990 so I wasn't around in the height of both their careers, but my favourite Michael Jackson song is Beat It and my favourite Prince song is When Doves Cry.

But I much prefer When Doves Cry to Beat It, so I'm going to say based on that I prefer Prince.

I won't side with either!

Michael is a pop genius
Prince is a music genius

I could never pick

This might be hearsay, but from what I heard Michael said that Prince reminded him of his father and brothers, that Prince insulted his family and he was also supposedly extremely annoyed when Purple Rain (the film) became so enormously successful because that was the one thing Michael hadn't achieved, as The Wiz bombed and even when he released Moonwalker years later, it wasn't really tied into an album. Apparently, Prince in response said what marisa8481 quoted. It might all just be media crap though and considering unique's expertise on this he is probably far more right about their relationship.

On topic, I like them both a lot, but I strongly prefer Prince. For me, Michael was always a bit too wishy-washy and innocent, whereas Prince was a genre mixing squealing sleazebag who went on stage in women's clothing and got pelted at Rolling Stones concerts. That's my idea of what a popstar should be. I always liked how Prince had complete control over his career and his songs... I laughed a few months ago when I read that Tinchy Stryder asked to sample one of his songs and got rejected.

On the other hand, I feel during the nineties that Prince tried to go after trends in black music too much and lost his focus whereas Michael was a bit too self indulgent and smug. I think Prince's legal battles and the fact that other genre-bending successful individuals like Björk, Beck and Nine Inch Nails started appearing after Nirvana's success made him lose a lot of momentum. The only one that came out of the nineties unscathed was Madonna, and that is because Erotica, Bedtime Stories and Ray of Light were all solid albums by her standards, though right now I would take any song on Lotusflow3r above pure crap like Revolver.

It's a tough question for me, but I may just have to lean towards Prince.

And you see, thats the problem with many Prince fans. You come across as being overally smug and arrogant such as yourself just then.

Mate I like a great deal of other artists and type of music than Michael Jackson so for you to suggest that I know nothing other than Michael Jackson is completely false.

As Ive said I have much of Prince's work and have been a fan of both him and MJ for many many years. It is my opinion however that the music, performance and legacy of Michael Jackson outways that of Prince. Perhaps not by a huge amount, but he edges it.

Much of MJS later work may indeed mostly be pop, but I wouldnt label him as only a pop artist. He has influenced a entire generation of artists in a wide genre. not just pop. Though that is the work he is best known for correct.

But again I dont think that makes him any less an artist than Prince.

How many albums has prince released? 20 odd? MJ released 6 or 7 solo? In those few albums he has built a legacy that will live on long after his death. Prince is a prince, but in my opinion Michael Jackson will always be the king.

As an entertainer and performer, I doubt anybody will ever come close to him, and even a fantastic performer like Prince cant top him from that accolade.

When I visit Prince forums I see the same old things, such as putting MJ down for not playing his own instruments, so what? He could indeed play some of them but I hardly see what difference it makes.

He was the performer, the showstopper, when he was on stage moving the way he did people didnt care if he could play a guitar or not (Prince is a crazy good guitarist btw)

I think we will have to agree to disagree here. At the end of the day I will enjoy listening to both MJ and Prince for many years to come.

Prince, in every possible way. Vocally, musically, and in terms of his playing (most of his songs were recorded by him alone) and production (more or less everything he has done to date has carried some form of the legend "produced, arranged, composed and performed by Prince") he stands alone. Above all else he carried on doing it too, releasing an album more or less every year - sometimes more than one - as well as writing & producing work for others, and of course being one of the greatest live performers we've ever seen... and he's still touring, and has barely stopped.

i'm not sure why you are so reluctant to call MJ a pop artist, as that's not only what he was, but he referred to himself as the king of pop. he didn't release music from other genres, his music may have influenced other artists from other genres too, but he was solely a pop artist, and there is no shame in that, and it's not derogatory against him to say that. it's really a moot point, as the thread's topic was to discuss who was the most talented, not who does everyone prefer, and whether MJ's music was pop, soul or heavy metal, it bears no relevance at all. i really can't understand why someone would want to argue such a point, and to question or complain about someone referring to the most commerical artist of all time as releasing commercial pop music is plainly ridiculous. his early jacksons 5 material was pure pop, you at least agree his later material was also pop, so i can't understand why you would consider any of his other music not to be so. he's not going to go up in anyones opinion if someone considered beat it to be a rock track. the original version of the track was more like a rock track but quincy jones asked them to tone it down as he was making a pop album, not a led zeppelin album

prince has releasead over 30 albums, not including the dozens of related artist projects he has released, and he's covered a large selection of genres

MJ may have far less releases, but no-one is doubting that his music won't live on long after he died, the only real point you seem to be debating is the reference to his music as commercial pop

many prince fans started off as MJ fans. if you turn the clock back to 1983, prince was just becoming known outside of the black music charts after releasing 1999 and little red corvette, and along came thriller. everyone was listening to that album, everyone was impressed, but then prince came back with purple rain, a killer album, and a fantastic movie to support it and put prince firmly in the spotlight. MJ then dropped the ball as he didn't release another solo album until 1987, by which time prince followed purple rain up with around the world in a day, parade (the soundtrack to his second movie under the cherry moon), sign o the times double album (plus the live sign o the times concert movie), and the black album was doing the rounds amongst fans, followed by lovesexy in early 1988

in between MJ releasing thriller and bad, prince toured 1999, purple rain, parade, and sign o the times, made 3 movies and umpteen albums not only for himself, but the time, sheila e, madhouse, jill jones, the family, appolonia, vanity, etc

as MJ's releases were few and far between with long gaps in between, his fans looked towards other artists for something new to listen to, so many fans moved towards the new guy on the block, prince, who at the time of purple rain had five previous albums, one a double, plus a bunch of other related artists albums. for a "new" artist he had released more music than MJ had. prince was a natural progression from MJ, his music was more mature, it was sexually explicit, it was everything a teenager wanted from a pop star, so with the gap left by MJ taking forever to release his follow up to thriller, his fanbase moved towards prince, who was constantly churning out material, and fantastic material it was

by the time bad came out, it was one of the most eagerly awaited releases in history, and also one of the most dissapointing, as the bar was raised so high from thriller it was impossible to beat it. with bad taking so long to finish, and being a patchy release, it put a large number of fans off for life, and those who turned to prince never looked back. prince kept on changing his sound, maturing with his audience, but MJ never progressed or matured, thus leaving his audience further behind. kids don't want to listen to 40 or 50 year old pop stars, especially not when there are plenty of younger artists filling the charts with music and lyrics that appear closer to them. MJ's unhealthy interest in children and all things childlike put people off further. adults don't want to be associated with an artist who targets a young audience, and his child molestation cases put even more people off. not growing up just separated the artist from his fanbase. the fans he had left after all his problems are generally hardcore fanatics who can see no wrong in what he does, and thus are usually referred to as loonies, and for perfectly understandable reasons. the tremendous interest in MJ is split down the middle between hardcore fanatics and gossip hungry tabloid junkies who want to read the about the dirt

i tend to seperate the artists work from the private life. as much as i'm certain he molested kids, it doesn't stop me from enjoying his music. billie jean as a great track, always will be, so why should someone stop listening to it because of what the artist did later on. no-one is avoiding phil spector music because he killed someone and is in jail for it

fortunately prince has avoided scandals like these, but when he does do something daft his fans don't usually stand behind and agree with him, in fact they usually stand up against him and voice disagreement, and from that point of view it's particularly hard to understand why MJ fans are so defensive towards him, particularly in light of the serious nature of the charges made against him, and knowing the guy was a serious drug addict for almost half his life. the guy was just a singer and dancer, he wasn't the pope, almost every fan who's posted something online about him hasn't met him, isn't related to him, and never will meet him, they don't know the truth and probably will never learn the real truth now, so why stand up and be so defensive about someone you don't know and a subject you don't know about. if you take a step back and consider that alone, it's understandable why his fans would be considered loonies. you only need to look at the fans who appeared on tv after his death to see they aren't the most balanced members of society, and having mass organised dancing in public places isn't the most mature of pasttimes either, as is all the dressing up. that's just crazy loony stuff. i know elvis fans do that stuff too, but they usually do so in a tongue in cheek manner and don't take themselves seriously, but dare fire a joke in the direction of an MJ fan and you better duck for cover, as a sense of humour has usually been dumped along with any sense of maturity or common sense, and that's what turns any discussions about MJ online into a farce. few people are sufficiently knowledable about his music that can discuss his work impartially as i can. i can also do the same about prince or any other artist. i don't care who is the best, the biggest selling or the worst, i'll still like each and individual artist or band the same way regardless of what anyone else thinks, but as i'm passionate about music, i enjoy discussing and debating it, and if i can perhaps help open the minds of others and introduce them to new music, then that can only be a good thing

just to butt in, but i thought we were talking about talent rather than legacy?

in terms of star status and legacy, Madonna likely outshines Prince.

but i don't think many would argue that Madonna was more talented musically than Prince.

if the debate centred on who was the biggest star, then of course its MJ, but if it centres on who was the biggest musical talent, then its IMHO clearly Prince.

and that is all Unique has been saying, politely, articulately, and backed up by a wealth of knowledge.

Iain

Well said.

Having seen both artists in concert more than once and owning a modest number of albums from each of them, I would entirely agree with both Unique and Iain.

Obviously, if we are referring to global impact and success then Michael oushines almost anyone else. But really, if we are talking raw musical talent as well as showmanship, then I think Prince is definitely better.

exactly. MJ is no doubt hands down the most famous and most popular, but prince is hands down the most talented

and the original post asked who is the most talented. the only way it can be measured is in tangable measurable terms. they can all sing, they can all write, they can all dance, but prince also plays his instruments and creates his albums himself. as to the more talented performer, again it's a matter of opinion, but prince did a lot more on stage than MJ ever did, he sang live, played instruments, taught the band and performed his own songs. he had no need for dancers and magic tricks onstage, he put on a concert, whereas MJ put on a show, going through the same motions every night to a scheduled set, whilst prince changed things up every night, and then played an aftershow jam session in a club afterwards, something few artists ever do, and something MJ never did. that's what sets the pair apart, MJ was a performer, prince was a musician, and boy he could perform his ass off and continues to do so to this day. MJ's last tour ended 12 years ago, and last album was nearly 10 years ago, prince played live only last month and released a triple cd earlier this year (released in france this week), and a new single out shortly. no remasters and reissues for prince, new music all the way, and it will be like that for years to come. and if he ever dies he has enough unheard new studio tracks in his vaults to release a new album every year for the next hundred years or so, and then all the thousands of live shows and rehearsals he recorded (he records everything). it's the huge output that makes prince attractive, as there is just so much to listen to, you never get bored or run out of material, every year there is new studio recordings and live shows to listen to, all of high standard. if MJ kept up the standard and output perhaps fewer people would have turned away from him towards prince

do you know if he's ever going to release the lotisflow3r set in the UK?

i know he was before his time with the whole internet thing, but i've always gotten the impression his websites themselves have been more style than substance, and didn't want to stump up the $77 for a couple of Prince CDs.

Iain

It's £24.99 on the HMV website now.