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Help me find a new cheap amp - 5.1 analogue-in a must!


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Old 20-09-2009, 15:04
FlangeMonkey
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My trusty 6-year old Panasonic SA-HE70 is sadly now starting to go wrong (intermittent F70 error - all fuses are fine - out of ideas on how to fix it), so am in the market for a new receiver.

What I REALLY need is one with 5.1 analogue inputs so I can continue to play SACDs and DVD-A from my Pioneer DV-696 - it won't output audio for SACD/DVD-A from its HDMI interface according to the manual, and my BluRay player (80Gb PS3) won't play SACD, so I'm stuck with it, so must have an amp with 5.1 analogue inputs.

However, I haven't looked at amps in years, and it now appears that what used to be a common feature on entry-level boxes is now a premium only tending to be found on higher end kit.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a suitable amp for me that's not going to break the bank?

It MUST also obviously accept optical, coax and decode at the very least DD5.1 and DTS.

Since I'm upgrading it would be nice if it could handle HDMI and possibly the newer HD audio formats, but it really must have 5.1 analogue inputs as a minimum.

The cheapest ones I can find are around the £400 mark where I was hoping to be able to spend roughly half this

There are plenty of entry-level amps (for less than £250) that handle HDMI and the new HD audio formats, but just don't have muti-channel analogue in.
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Old 20-09-2009, 15:39
martysport
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TBH M8 you might be better off finding summut 2nd hand, sometimes you can pick up some good bargins

I got a nice Denon for one of my kids for nearly nothing
Still looked new and had the box ect too!!!!!!!!!!

Panasonics arn't the best when it comes to amps anyway (great TV's and videos though)
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Old 21-09-2009, 09:10
paulr2006
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Have to agree with Martysport, second hand is your ownly real option, you can pick up a Denon 3805 for instance for about £200 or less, these are very good Amps that cost around £1K when introduced. They are very reliable & robust. One Here
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Old 21-09-2009, 09:24
Pugwash69
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I saw a Yahama 5.1 amp identical to the one I used to own go for £25 on ebay. I used mine for SACD/DVD-A also. It lacked HDMI as it was quite old.

My current amp I also bought on ebay, for under £100, with 6 channel analogue inputs. It's a Sony STR-DB780QS. Still no HDMI though.

I think you meant to say the PS3 CAN play SACD, just not DVD-A.
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Old 21-09-2009, 09:33
FlangeMonkey
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Thanks for the advice, folks. It would be nice since I'm shelling out anyway to get one that accepts the HD audio formats, to be honest - but I really can't find one that includes 5.1 analogues for a sensible price. I might have to look at second-hand units.

I think you meant to say the PS3 CAN play SACD, just not DVD-A.
Not the 80Gb I bought earlier this year! The first ones released could, but they removed the functionality in the more recent models
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Old 21-09-2009, 13:26
Pugwash69
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Oh right, odd considering it's a Sony/Philips idea, but in the last 12 months or so I haven't even seen any SACD or DVD-A releases.
Mine's an early PS3.
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Old 21-09-2009, 13:44
chrisjr
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Found this at richer Sounds...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...ma-rxv365-blk#

£180ish and does have a 5.1 analogue input according to the specs. Has a pair of HDMI inputs but can't do the HD audio formats though.

A quick scan of the Richer Sounds list suggests that if you want a 5.1 analogue in and HD audio you are looking at the thick end of £450 or even more!

http://www.richersounds.com/products...s/av-receivers
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Old 21-09-2009, 13:48
late8
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YAMAHA still do 5.1 analogue Multichannel inputs.

You can pick up the Entry Level Yamaha (YAMAHA RXV365) for about £180
http://www.richersounds.com/product/...ama-rxv365-blk

Theres also the YAMAHA RXV465 for £250
http://www.richersounds.com/product/...ama-rxv465-blk

Both are excellent amps with HDMI inputs - The 465 Decodes HD audio formats - 365 doesnt but has HDMI.

BACK OF THE RXV365
http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/Images...02%20large.jpg
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Old 21-09-2009, 13:54
Deacon1972
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YAMAHA still do 5.1 analogue Multichannel inputs.

You can pick up the Entry Level Yamaha (YAMAHA RXV365) for about £180
http://www.richersounds.com/product/...ama-rxv365-blk

Theres also the YAMAHA RXV465 for £250
http://www.richersounds.com/product/...ama-rxv465-blk

Both are excellent amps with HDMI inputs - The 465 Decodes HD audio formats - 365 doesnt but has HDMI.

BACK OF THE RXV365
http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/Images...02%20large.jpg
According to the specs the 465 doesn't have multichannel inputs - only HD audio.

The HDMI on the 365 only does video switching so you can't even have multichannel PCM via the PS3, but it does have multichannel inputs for SACDs and DVD-A.

The cheapest receiver on RS that includes multichannel inputs and HD audio is the Denon AVR1910 @ £439-95.

I agree, second-hand is the way to go with such a small budget.

How about the Denon AVR3806 on Ebay, got to be worth a bid.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Denon-AVR-3806...d=p3286.c0.m14
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Old 21-09-2009, 14:25
FlangeMonkey
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OK - thanks a bunch so far - very helpful. This is the way forward I think - and actually more realistic for my budget I think:

An amp with 5.1 analogue inputs - no on-board HD audio, but accepts LPCM - I can output HD audio from the PS3 this way apparently - I've already found a few - incl. the Onkyo 576, and slightly older Sony ones like the 3200ES and 3300ES.

Anyone know of any more - the closest to £200 the better - second-hand/discontinued models welcome!
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Old 21-09-2009, 20:51
FlangeMonkey
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Can anyone comment on the viability (and performance) of the Pioneer VSX-519? There is virtually no mention of it at all on these boards which I find strange!

It has an HDMI repeater, and the associated blurb on Play.com's site says:

"If you connect - via HDMI - a Blu-ray player featuring HD audio decoding, you will be able to enjoy the decoded LPCM uncompressed HD audio from the latest blockbusters."

I can't see explicit mention of multi-channel PCM on the product's manual downloaded from the Pioneer site. It says it supports PCM up to 192kHz but nothing about multi-channel via HDMI...

It really seems to fit the bill at £240 - with 5.1 analogue inputs plus this ability to play ready-decoded LPCM (if it's correct!)

Can anyone help?
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Old 21-09-2009, 21:52
Deacon1972
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Pretty sure the Pioneer can't do audio over HDMI.

If it was me I'd go for the Onkyo 576 (£250), it's has multichannel inputs and will do multichannel PCM over HDMI.
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Old 21-09-2009, 22:52
FlangeMonkey
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That's odd if you're correct. Why does the official Pioneer specs site say that it DOES have an HDMI repeater? Also why is the information on Play.com (and a lot of other other online suppliers which have identical information regarding the LPCM over HDMI capability) not correct?

That Onkyo model does look good on paper, however - but I've read of problems between them and Samsung Sky HD boxes which I also have...where have you seen it for that price? I can only find it for ~£270.
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Old 22-09-2009, 09:15
Deacon1972
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That's odd if you're correct. Why does the official Pioneer specs site say that it DOES have an HDMI repeater? Also why is the information on Play.com (and a lot of other other online suppliers which have identical information regarding the LPCM over HDMI capability) not correct?
Just going by the specs on Richer Sounds - it could be wrong, but you will need to definitely find out before you buy.



That Onkyo model does look good on paper, however - but I've read of problems between them and Samsung Sky HD boxes which I also have...where have you seen it for that price? I can only find it for ~£270.
What problems have been reported - HDCP?

http://www.exceptional-av.co.uk/prod...FQS7sgodmiBxbQ

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Onkyo-TX-SR576...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 22-09-2009, 10:23
FlangeMonkey
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Many thanks for the link to the Onkyo - it certainly looks better than the Pioneer, and more future-proof too...

Regarding issues with SkyHD - it was this thread in particular that I stumbled upon...

Not sure how widespread it is - seems like a VERY odd error, though!
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Old 22-09-2009, 10:58
Deacon1972
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Many thanks for the link to the Onkyo - it certainly looks better than the Pioneer, and more future-proof too...

Regarding issues with SkyHD - it was this thread in particular that I stumbled upon...

Not sure how widespread it is - seems like a VERY odd error, though!
I don't think you can go far wrong with Onkyo, they are well respected and they give very good value for money.

Just a shame an issue has been reported, though it only seems a one off. Given that your options are very limited I suppose the only way to find out is to try it, you should be covered and be able to return it if it's not compatible, just mention it to the retailer before hand just to make sure of your rights.
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Old 22-09-2009, 11:02
FlangeMonkey
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I notice that there is another similar model - the SR506 - seems to be slightly less powerful, and misses out on DD Plus support - it's slightly cheaper as a result - can only discern these differences between them - I THINK it also can accept LPCM over HDMI and output it from the receiver - any ideas if it does for sure?
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Old 22-09-2009, 11:33
FlangeMonkey
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Right - the 506 CANNOT handle audio through HDMI - it acts as a pass-through only - page 28 of the manual confirms this as fact. It also confirms that the 576 DOES work with the following over HDMI:
"Repeater System, Deep Color, Lip Sync, Dolby Digital Plus, and Multichannel PCM".

The difference in price is now more obvious!
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Old 26-09-2009, 20:40
MrGriller
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The Cambridge Audio av amps all have 5.1 analogue inputs and start at £150,most also include hdmi but i think it may only be pass through.

£150 gets a 340r with hdmi and

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/default.php

http://www.richersounds.com/
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Old 26-09-2009, 20:42
MrGriller
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The Cambridge Audio av amps all have 5.1 analogue inputs and start at £150,most also include hdmi but i think it may only be pass through.

£150 gets a 340r with hdmi and 5.1 analogue.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/default.php

http://www.richersounds.com/
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Old 27-09-2009, 16:04
FlangeMonkey
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Right - had a real mare with all this over the past few days.

Eventually ordered an Onkyo SR606 for £300 - it turned up but appeared to be a reconditioned model. Plugged it all in and everything worked (apart from SkyHD which froze up and didn't respond to any remote or on-box button commands when plugged into the Onkyo via HDMI - as has been spotted elsewhere).

That wasn't the worst of it, however. Within a few minutes a very loud buzzing noise started coming out of the receiver itself - not the speakers. There was clearly something wrong with it (it was reconditioned, but I was assured it was supposed to be 100% working). The buzzing eventually went away, but returned a few hours later, and has been like that ever since. There was no more stock from where I bought it (apart from another reconditioned model with minor aesthetic damage to the front) - so it's getting picked up and I caved in and spunked £400 on a Sony STR-DA2400ES instead which should be with me on Tuesday...

I think it often is a case of that you really do get what you pay for
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Old 27-09-2009, 19:29
RobAnt
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Well £300 is still a fair amount of money.

For a bedroom or something like that, then Logitech & Creative/Cambridge make plenty of multi-channel speaker sets with 5.1 analogue inputs.

I have a Logitech Z5400 set, which sports both 5.1 analogue and DD/DTS digital inputs. It was considerably less than £300.
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Old 30-09-2009, 10:32
FlangeMonkey
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Well the receiver arrived, but I encountered a problem that is a known "feature" of Sony receivers.

As soon as you connect your TV (like mine that only has DVI but accepts HD signals) using a HDMI-DVI cable to the "HDMI Out" port for switching any devices through the Sony receiver - ALL audio is stopped from leaving the receiver.

You can however feed HDMI audio into the amp, then output a video device over the component out of the amp (providing you have the device connected to a component in).

Works fine.

I now have the following connected and working perfectly:

DVD/DVD-A/SACD player - video via component directly to the primary component input of the TV - audio via coax to the amp (for DD 5.1 and DTS) AND 5.1 analogue out to amp for high-res SACD/DVD-A.
PS3 - video via component to the amp - audio via HDMI into the amp - LPCM is being received.
PS2 - video via component to the amp - audio via Optical into the amp.
Wii - video via component to the amp - audio via stereo phonos into the amp.
SkyHD - connected directly into the TV via HDMI-DVI - audio via Optical into the amp and stereo into the TV.
The TV is connected to the amp's secondary component-out...

So, anyone who only has a DVI port on your TV, you CAN'T use Sony receivers to switch HDMI video to it unless you're happy receiving no sound (kind of pointless having a receiver in this case!)

You must have component for it to do video and audio switching in this case - it switches this perfectly - even when accepting HDMI audio as a sound source.

Aside from all this, I'd highly recommend the 2400ES - it certainly packs a punch and is also quite musical to add to the mix...multi-channel stuff is crisp, clear and deep whilst stereo material sounds WAY improved over the Onkyo SR606 I tested and my ancient Panasonic receiver that went kaput.
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Old 30-09-2009, 15:55
niall campbell
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Right - had a real mare with all this over the past few days.

Eventually ordered an Onkyo SR606 for £300 - it turned up but appeared to be a reconditioned model. Plugged it all in and everything worked (apart from SkyHD which froze up and didn't respond to any remote or on-box button commands when plugged into the Onkyo via HDMI - as has been spotted elsewhere).

That wasn't the worst of it, however. Within a few minutes a very loud buzzing noise started coming out of the receiver itself - not the speakers. There was clearly something wrong with it (it was reconditioned, but I was assured it was supposed to be 100% working). The buzzing eventually went away, but returned a few hours later, and has been like that ever since. There was no more stock from where I bought it (apart from another reconditioned model with minor aesthetic damage to the front) - so it's getting picked up and I caved in and spunked £400 on a Sony STR-DA2400ES instead which should be with me on Tuesday...

I think it often is a case of that you really do get what you pay for
where did you buy it?? the onkyo??
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Old 30-09-2009, 16:38
FlangeMonkey
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It was from clearvisionsystems.co.uk - they were very helpful indeed. I sent it back due to the fault, and the dealer said he did have another reconditioned 606 in black, but it had a 2cm scratch on the front fascia - he did offer to reduce the price by £50 for this one (which is a corking price for the 606 as they were £400 brand new when first released I think) but I just gave up at this point due to the bad experience with the previous reconditioned box, and decided to spend more money on the Sony box...

I must admit that the Sony does sound even better than the Onkyo so I'm happy now.
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