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Baxi Combi 105e boiler help - again!


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Old 20-09-2009, 17:25
fat controller
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I need some help, preferably before I rip this damned boiler off the wall!

Some of you may remember the fun and games that we had with our boiler last year, but I will try and give a brief summary:

Initially, when running hot water, the temperature would fluctuate between skin strippingly hot and freezing cold, so we called a local boiler engineer (who turned out to specialise in Baxi and Potterton boilers); long story short, it ended up costing the thick end of 600 and had numerous replacement parts including flow valve, flow sensor, diverter valve, and heat exchanger. That was in October/November time. This cured our problems and we were happy.

Then, around January/February time, the boiler suddenly refused to work one morning, so we had no heating or hot water. Called the same engineer out again, in the vain hope that it would be repaired under warranty, but no luck - he replaced the main PCB, and all was well (apart from the 250 bill).

Now, when he replaced the PCB, the pressure gauge on the front panel ceased to work - he noticed this at the time, and I pointed out that it was most definitely working before the board change; however, it was getting on in the day, on a Saturday afternoon, so he said he would look at it when he came to service the boiler sometime in the future, and that worst case it would be a new gauge which wouldn't be expensive.

Not all that long after, I felt that the hot water temperature was a bit too hot, so attempted to adjust it using the control on the front panel of the boiler - it wouldn't move much, and felt as though it wasn't connected to anything on the inside.

Now, over the last couple of weeks, when I have been in the shower, I had a few times when the water temperature was fluctuating again; I thought nothing of it, and assumed that I was knocking the temperature control with my body as I was showering. But, tonight I ran a bath, and when I went to check it the water in the bath was tepid (normally it would be almost volcanic); so I held my hand under the running tap, and the temperature was going from hot to cold.

Upon checking the boiler (with water still running), it appeared to be igniting, heating and then tripping out, and going into a fault state showing the right hand LED flashing (stated on the front flap as being 'Fault with Central Heating Sensor'. I reset the boiler, and flicked it into hot water only mode, but it made no difference. If I switch the heating on, it won't even fire up.

Now, as well as being thoroughly p*ssed off, I am now beginning to feel that I have been / am being taken for a mug, and I am now quite suspicious that the board the engineer fitted might not have been exactly the right one (enough to get it going for a bit, but not an exact match), which in turn has caused it to go faulty again?

Or, could the symptoms I am getting be caused by anything else?

I am loathe to call this guy back, only to be told it is yet another part, not covered by any kind of warranty, and to have my wallet raped again.

Now, whether I harboured this suspicion at the time of the PCB replacement, I have no idea, but for some reason I retained the faulty board - and I still have it.

I am seriously giving consideration to sending it off for repair, or even just buying a new one, and fitting the blighter myself. I am reasonably good with a screwdriver and electrics/electronics, so it should be well within my capability to repair this infernal appliance - besides, I am beginning to wonder if I can trust any so called engineers that cross my doorstep!

Advice and comments please
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Old 20-09-2009, 18:06
paulyoung666
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comment , the money you have spent could have been spent on fitting a brand new boiler with some to spare in my opinion , maybe thats not what you want hear though
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Old 20-09-2009, 18:11
fat controller
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comment , the money you have spent could have been spent on fitting a brand new boiler with some to spare in my opinion , maybe thats not what you want hear though
I totally agree - thankfully, the first bill was footed by our landlords, although I took care of the second bill; by the time we were half way into the repair, we were sort of committed to carrying on if that makes sense, but I really don't want to spend more than I have to now;

I think part of the problem was the engineer saw an opportunity to milk it, so he did.
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Old 21-09-2009, 18:33
fat controller
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OK, I am now perplexed.

Came home from work this evening, and whilst having a bit of a wash and brush up, I noticed that the hot water was running hot - constantly.

Back downstairs, I decided to flick the boiler into heat and hot water mode, then fired up the heating; I stood and watched the boiler come on, run, and although it shut the flame off a couple of times initially, it didn't go into a fault state, and it continued to run for a good twenty minutes without any problem - the house is now nice and toasty.

So, I now have no idea where I am with this now. I still have the sneaky feeling that the board that is fitted is either the wrong one and/or fitted incorrectly;

Are the symptoms that we had yesterday indicative of a looming board failure? Or indeed the looming failure of any other part?

I have found someone on ebay that I can send the board off to, they repair it and return it for 45 - is it worth sending the board that I have here (the faulty one taken out at the start of the year) with a view to having it as a spare, or even to clap it straight in as soon as it comes back to bring the gauge etc back into use?
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Old 21-09-2009, 18:51
mummypigget
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And I thought my boiler which is the same make as your's was bad!! I had a new valve and sensor installed in March after surviving the Winter with only radiator hot water!!

Have you thought about getting British Gas out, they came out and did ours 125 I think but we also pay 2 a month and if it goes knackered again then call out costs etc

http://www.britishgas.co.uk/products...d-heating.html think this is the right link, I think on the main page there is a landlord section, maybe point your landlord in this direction?
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Old 21-09-2009, 19:23
fat controller
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Is yours the same model as mine then mummypigget?

When I googled for parts yesterday, I came across a site that showed the main PCB for the Combi 105e, and on the page it was on was a note stating in capitals "IF THE BOILER IS A COMBI 105e INSTANT, THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT PART" and then a link leading to another part number; so I am now wondering if I have been donated the board for a 105e Instant, when my boiler is a plain 105e.

I did consider a service plan back when the last repair was done, but I have a massive dislike of British Gas (the buggers over charged me a few hundred quid, and I never did get it back - long story)

Besides which, I have that sinking feeling that if I was to call someone else (like BG) out, they would either refuse to touch it or charge the earth to get it going before they would even entertain a service contract.

And the other problem is that, although our landlords are great, I have the feeling that financially they are in a worse state than we are - and we have an agreement where I generally take care of most repairs in return for a keen rent price, and they only get involved with the really nasty stuff. If I can fix this for less than 100, then I will just do it.

There surely can't be that much left to replace on the damn thing - I've just found the first invoice, so in the last year it has had:

Diverter Valve, DHW Plate Heat Exchanger, AAV (whatever that is), Thermister DHW, DHW Flow Assembly, and on the next visit, a PCB.
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Old 21-09-2009, 20:26
fredster
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OK, I am now perplexed.

Came home from work this evening, and whilst having a bit of a wash and brush up, I noticed that the hot water was running hot - constantly.

Back downstairs, I decided to flick the boiler into heat and hot water mode, then fired up the heating; I stood and watched the boiler come on, run, and although it shut the flame off a couple of times initially, it didn't go into a fault state, and it continued to run for a good twenty minutes without any problem - the house is now nice and toasty.

So, I now have no idea where I am with this now. I still have the sneaky feeling that the board that is fitted is either the wrong one and/or fitted incorrectly;

Are the symptoms that we had yesterday indicative of a looming board failure? Or indeed the looming failure of any other part?

I have found someone on ebay that I can send the board off to, they repair it and return it for 45 - is it worth sending the board that I have here (the faulty one taken out at the start of the year) with a view to having it as a spare, or even to clap it straight in as soon as it comes back to bring the gauge etc back into use?
If it is a gas boiler, why don't you ask the gas board to come and test it?
i see you don't have faith in the gas board! Look in yellow pages and find a genuine repair agent. I think there is one called corgi?

Last edited by fredster : 21-09-2009 at 20:31. Reason: Adding
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Old 21-09-2009, 21:08
fat controller
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Right, I bit the bullet, and had the cover open - the board that is in there is completely different to the original (however I also note that the original has been superseded, presumably due to the inherent problems of the original Baxi/Potterton board).

Now, the boiler continues to behave faultlessly, so for now I am in the clear - but I just know that it is sure to play up again at some point in the future - so, I need to learn more before it does.

I have inspected the original board, and found a dry solder joint on one of the pots (the CH temp control one), so I assume that is the reason that it just decided to fall over one morning earlier in the year - I shall resolder that, and hold onto it as a spare.

The pressure gauge appears to be connected, but still does not work - I can get a replacement for 12 online, so not the end of the world - however, would replacing it mean that I would have to drain the whole system (as it is not an electrical gauge)?

I think I need seacam, the chimp or some of the other more knowledgeable members to come to my rescue - where are you guys?
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Old 22-09-2009, 14:30
fat controller
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I know I shouldn't, but this is just a thoroughly shameless bump in the hope that some of our more knowledgeable members will see it
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Old 22-09-2009, 14:46
seacam
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I know I shouldn't, but this is just a thoroughly shameless bump in the hope that some of our more knowledgeable members will see it
Hi Fats,

I saw your thread a while ago and I think we have spoken about your boiler extensively.

I am loathed to suggest to you to spend any more money flogging this horse but I also understand you are not sure whether you are staying or not where you are.

The 105e and the Instant while similar are different units.

To change your gauge you don't have to drain your system but you must drain the boiler and turn off electricity supply.
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Old 22-09-2009, 14:56
fat controller
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Hi seacam,

You must be getting fed up with me and this damned boiler by now, hence me not bothering you with a PM.

I downloaded a manual last night that shows how to replace almost every part on the boiler, so that will be handy, however it does simply state that to replace the gauge I have to 'drain the primary circuit' - how do I do this, and once changed, is it simply a case of using the fill loop to recharge it before switching back on?

Isolating the mains is easy, as the boiler has a 13 amp plug fitted to it, that plugs into a socket just next to it.

Also, the is the fault that I had the other day likely to be a duff board?
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Old 22-09-2009, 15:51
seacam
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Hi seacam,

You must be getting fed up with me and this damned boiler by now, hence me not bothering you with a PM.

I downloaded a manual last night that shows how to replace almost every part on the boiler, so that will be handy, however it does simply state that to replace the gauge I have to 'drain the primary circuit' - how do I do this, and once changed, is it simply a case of using the fill loop to recharge it before switching back on?
Isolating the mains is easy, as the boiler has a 13 amp plug fitted to it, that plugs into a socket just next to it.

Also, the is the fault that I had the other day likely to be a duff board?
Hi Fats,

Ok, to drain the primary, turn of off main cold stop cock, open one hot water taps above and below/by boiler.

Remove PCB, and have some towels handy.

Use your iso valve and open drain cock underneath boiler,, change your gauge, make sure everything is closed that needs to be, introduce inhibitor via filling loop, make , turn on cold water, pressurize system.

HOWEVER, my personnel feeling is not to use the iso valve or drain cock because if they leak you will have further problems with your boiler, although they can stop.

Best to drain all of system down using rad cock, open hot water taps as advised, do your thing, fill and bleed.

Do you really have to change the PG Fats??

Duff board, wrong board I'd say Fats.
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Old 23-09-2009, 19:19
fat controller
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Thanks seacam

If the boiler continues to work as it has been over the last day or so, then I couldn't give two hoots about the pressure gauge - of course, if I end up having to bleed any rads, then no gauge would leave me playing guess work.

Here is a photo of the 'original' PCB (although reading between the lines with the reliability of these boilers it is likely not to be the one it left the factory with!)

And here is a photo of the replacement in situ.

As you can see they are entirely different to each other.

Slightly perturbing, is that the picture of the replacement part shown on 'boilerspares' website appears to be different again, as you can see here

Whilst looking in the boiler, I noted that the temperature controls are in fact connected as they should be through the board to the pots, however the pots on the new board seem to have a very limited travel. I did wonder if the problems could be as simple as the temperatures being set too high, causing the boiler to shut down to prevent an overheat, but now I am not so sure.

It would appear to be still behaving today.
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Old 24-09-2009, 04:38
seacam
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Thanks seacam

If the boiler continues to work as it has been over the last day or so, then I couldn't give two hoots about the pressure gauge - of course, if I end up having to bleed any rads, then no gauge would leave me playing guess work.

Here is a photo of the 'original' PCB (although reading between the lines with the reliability of these boilers it is likely not to be the one it left the factory with!)

And here is a photo of the replacement in situ.

As you can see they are entirely different to each other.

Slightly perturbing, is that the picture of the replacement part shown on 'boilerspares' website appears to be different again, as you can see here

Whilst looking in the boiler, I noted that the temperature controls are in fact connected as they should be through the board to the pots, however the pots on the new board seem to have a very limited travel. I did wonder if the problems could be as simple as the temperatures being set too high, causing the boiler to shut down to prevent an overheat, but now I am not so sure.

It would appear to be still behaving today.
Hi Fats,

PN for PCB for 105E is 5112380 as per your third link, this board replaced PN 248074.

The original board had lots of faulty relays, the new board not nearly as many but still suffers.

The temperature could be set to high, might be your problem but I don't think so.

Yes if you bleed rads , best to fit new gauge.
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Old 24-09-2009, 15:18
mummypigget
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Hey FC

My boiler is the same as yours, right down to the e!!

We have had problems with BG in the past before, they tried to charge us gas when we hadn't been with them for 2 years and had moved and it wasn't from previous address and they sent nasty bailiff letters, my hubby phoned them and shouted at them a few times because they were stupid but with the boiler they were out within 24hrs and fixed the diverter valve and found the sensor was rusty and replaced that free of charge.

Just looked at your photo's and well...I think you are very brave for turning your boiler into what looks like a big puzzle!! Love your worktop too!
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Old 24-09-2009, 15:41
fat controller
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I hope your boiler behaves far better than mine does then - we've lived here a year now, and I am thoroughly sick of the thing.

We had a prepayment meter when we first moved into our old flat years ago, and BG sent me a bill showing a minus figure of nearly 400 after we'd been there for years - I rang them, and asked what it meant, to be told that it meant we were in credit, so they owed us. However, when I tried to get them to send me it back, they wouldn't give it - they had me jump through hoops asking for proof of address, then ID, then they wanted my tenancy agreement - - that was the point I told them where they could stick their gas pipe.

As for me getting into the gubbins of the boiler - it is par for the course in this house. I am not scared of a screwdriver and used to work with electronics many years ago - although admittedly, I usually avoid plumbing and gas like the plague; I just get very frustrated when I have something going wrong again and again, especially when it is costing a fortune to repair it - I'd rather try and learn more, and cobble that together with my existing skills, and save a few quid.

I have to say though, the likes of seacam and the chimp on here are absolute gems - they must have saved DS members thousands of pounds over the years, not to mention doing there bit to keep them safe.
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Old 25-09-2009, 07:28
mummypigget
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They are definitely in the list of people you want on side!!

How is the boiler this morning? I am too much of a chicken to tinker with anything, I break most things I touch!!
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Old 25-09-2009, 15:46
fat controller
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I have no idea how it is today - I was up and out at stupid o'clock, and I'm only in for an hour or so just now before heading back out, and I've not used any water yet.

Seacam, is there any way to find the part number on the PCB itself? I am intrigued that I cannot seem to find any part number on either the original or the replacement board.
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Old 25-09-2009, 18:59
seacam
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I have no idea how it is today - I was up and out at stupid o'clock, and I'm only in for an hour or so just now before heading back out, and I've not used any water yet.

Seacam, is there any way to find the part number on the PCB itself? I am intrigued that I cannot seem to find any part number on either the original or the replacement board.
Hi Fats,

I'm numbering your links 1,2,3

The original board as I recall was a Siemens one, PN 248074.

The board in link 1 link looks like a TEC board.

The board in the 2nd link as fitted is a board for a Glowworm, can't remember which one.

On the sticker that says Y-plan in 2nd link what does it say?

Your replacement board is PN 5112380 , this is the replacement PCB for the 105 E, not the Instant.
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Old 25-09-2009, 19:21
fat controller
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I'll need to whip the cover open again and have a look at the sticker and get back to you. So the board that has been put in, being for a glowworm, is the wrong one for my boiler?

Would that then have any bearing on the gauge?

And if it is the wrong board (but currently working) what risks are there (damage to boiler/danger)?

Thank goodness we've got you seacam!
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Old 25-09-2009, 20:16
seacam
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Hi Fats,
I'll need to whip the cover open again and have a look at the sticker and get back to you. So the board that has been put in, being for a glowworm, is the wrong one for my boiler?
The board that's fitted is not a 5112380 is what I'm saying.

Fats I have rigged boards to get clients out of trouble and myself and used boards from other units but on a temporary measure I might add.

I have had a Valient working off a Bosch board before.

But I fully understand, that's not what you payed for.
Would that then have any bearing on the gauge?
Yes, posibly but unlikely.
And if it is the wrong board (but currently working) what risks are there (damage to boiler/danger)?
I can't answer that question for sure, other factors, I think you are ok, worst case scenario another PCB down the drain.
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Old 27-09-2009, 17:39
fat controller
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Thanks seacam

I'm going to set aside some cash for a replacement PCB, and a replacement gauge, so that I can replace them both the next time the boiler goes faulty; (sad that I am already expecting it to fail!) As it stands at the moment, it is working fine, so I am not going to meddle with it until I have to.
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Old 27-09-2009, 20:00
mummypigget
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Thanks seacam

I'm going to set aside some cash for a replacement PCB, and a replacement gauge, so that I can replace them both the next time the boiler goes faulty; (sad that I am already expecting it to fail!) As it stands at the moment, it is working fine, so I am not going to meddle with it until I have to.
Fingers crossed it lives as long as possible
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Old 27-09-2009, 20:03
fat controller
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Fingers crossed it lives as long as possible
Thanks mummypigget

In the meantime, I shall keep up my weekly 'subscription' to the National Lottery in the vain hope that one day my numbers come up!
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Old 27-09-2009, 20:32
seacam
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Thanks mummypigget

In the meantime, I shall keep up my weekly 'subscription' to the National Lottery in the vain hope that one day my numbers come up!
I hope your numbers come up soon to Fats but then if you think about it you wouldn't need a boiler, you'd all go and live in a hot country and install air con'.
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