Hi all,

A few days, but maybe a week ago we first noticed problems with our BT landline, which is also ADSL enabled. The ADSL appears fine.

My brother reported that he was unable to phone us using his mobile. I initially blamed his mobile - Vodafone - as where he is on the quieter part of the Lincolnshire coast the mobile coverage is patchy at best and struggles to get any signal at all.

I tested the line - dialling out to my mobile - on first attempt there was no dial tone - so tried dialling in and received a repetitive single beep tone like "beep beep beep beep". I tried again dialling in a few minutes later - I heard the line ring once and then silence with crackling.
I tried dialling out again and was able to make my mobile ring.

Ran the remote tests from the BT website and BT reported that the line is okay.

Tried again every day for the following few days and the line appeared fine.

I've was rushed into hospital on Sunday evening and when I tried to phone home this morning to be collected - as it was the only number I could remember - I got connected but all I could hear was myself - when I said "Hello" I heard myself in my earpiece and I could also hear my breathing with some cracking on the line - otherwise the line was silent.

My brother has also again reported that he is unable to phone us on the landline.

I tried phoning BT on 151 but got disconnected after about 5 minutes queuing.

There have been no changes to the configuration of either the landline or any hardware.

Please advise.

Thanks & regards,

Steve.

Just spoke to a nice lady at BT - possibly offshore.

She checked the line remotely which reported no faults.

She has given me some basic advice on what to check - as far as they are concerned at the moment the fault is either within the master socket or after within the internal wiring, which is, I admit quite complex but has been fine for a few years.

I now know that our socket is an original design "master socket". I realised this when she talked me through removing the end-user access plate on the more modern NTE5 design - the socket was installed approximately 1985, so 24 years ago.

A rough explanation of the internal wiring would be as such -

master socket -> double splitter
double splitter 1 -> ADSL Filter -> Sky Box

double splitter 2 -> long extension upstairs -> double splitter

double splitter -> filter -> sky box
double splitter -> short extension -> filter -> phone and router.

the phone master base station is connected upstairs with a second cordless handset downstairs.

I have bought a basic corded phone to test the line - to rule out any problem with the cordless phone (also to use in emergencies during a power cut).

If I'm well enough I'm going to carry out some checks on the cabling tomorrow - starting with just the new phone and filter plugged directly into the master socket. The lady from BT said she will ring back tomorrow 1330.

Any advice regarding where to start with diagnosing any fault with the internal wiring greatfully appreciated.

Thanks again,

Steve.

If you do not have a master socket all you can really do is unplug everything out of all the sockets and test with a corded phone.
There is a self help on the www.bt.com/faults website that may help you.

My bet.

The extension lead running upstairs. I would lay odds on that being damaged somewhere along it's route. Especially if you have run it under any carpets, eg across doorways.

It is possible for the phone not to work but broadband get through certain types of cable damage, albeit not as good as if the cable were intact.

I would use your corded phone on it's own plugged direct into the master socket with absolutely nothing else plugged in, not even an ADSL filter. Establish that the phone can make and receive calls OK (you may hear some interference from the ADSL tones but ignore those for now)

Next plug in each filter in turn into the master socket and test each one to make sure that all work OK. Then try each splitter in turn. It sounds like the proverbial b***ache but you have to eliminate things one at a time so you know what might be causing the problem.

Then plug the long extension by itself into the master socket and test with just a phone plugged in at the end. I have a feeling you may find the phone doesn't work if what I suspect is true. But best to eliminate every other potential cause first.

If the phone works in the long extension go back to the master socket and plug just the short lead in and test that. It could equally be that if it too has been laid under carpet where it might have been walked over.

If that works then it is some odd combination of equipment causing the problem. So start by plugging a splitter into the master socket and try the Sky box and phone together. Add ADSL filters if you still have a working line. Not impossible you have a dodgy filter that affects the line but not the phone socket on the filter.

Then add the long extension then the upstairs splitter and Sky box. I'm assuming you have Sky multiroom which is one reason i can think of why the Sky boxes are connected to the phone line. otherwise I would suggest not connecting them.

Then add the final extension and filter and then your modem. Basically it is a long winded process of trial and error and testing each element in turn until you either find one component that is faulty or some combination of components that stops it working.

Fairly obviously though if you strip everything out of the master socket and the phone still doesn't work then baring a faulty socket (not unknown) it has to be a line fault. In any case it's BT's problem whether it's line or socket. it only becomes your problem if it's the internal wiring.

But I know from personal experience that it can be a pain in the proverbials tracing such faults.

ON the master plug into the test socket.

If you dial in to your own line and get the same result its external, if not its internal.

Many thanks for the replies - to confirm, our main socket is an older "master" socket, not the modern NTE-5 design with the test socket hidden behind the removable faceplate.

On Wednesday, with help from the same lady from BT that I spoke to originally, we carried out some basic tests.

First of all, we disconnected everything and plugged the new basic corded phone directly into the master socket - we were then able to phone out - to my mobile - and phone in from my mobile to the landline without any problems.

BT then called and we had no problems. BT advised me to connect the ADSL filter between the phone and the master socket and she then phoned back. The phone rang one and she heard static and her call was not connected.

She then called me on my mobile and explained that as the problem only seems to happen intermittently and only affects incoming calls and that I have tested that the problem occurs whether or not the extensions are connected with the phone/s on two different ADSL filters.

She believes that the problem lines with the broadband line and that I need to connect BT Broadband Technical Support explaining that I have spoken with BT Residential Faults and that they have tested the line and believe there is a problem with the ADSL part of the line.

I didn't think it was possible for the broadband to affect voice calls?

Any thoughts? Could she be right? Will I get any joy from the broadband helpdesk?

Many thanks,

Steve.

So what you are saying is that it works fine with the phone and nothing else plugged into the line?

But if you plug the phone in via an ADSL filter it doesn't ring? Is that with or without the modem plugged in as well?

If it does not ring with just the phone and a filter and nothing else then it is the filter. If it rings with just the phone and filter but not after you plug in the modem then it is the modem more than likely.

ADSL signals are high frequency tones that are present on the line all the time. The filter simply removes these tones from the phone socket on the filter. So if the ADSL signal were the culprit it is more likely to affect the phone if it was plugged directly into the master socket with no filter.

The mere fact that the BT support person mentioned "broadband line" does make me wonder if she actually knows how broadband is delivered. Maybe she thinks it is on an entirely separate pair of wires or something. In which case it would be even less likely to affect the phone ringing.

Lets face it the ADSL tones are a few volts (if that!) at high frequency and the ringing signal is a 75V low frequency AC signal. Which one do you think is more likely to interfere with the other!

No I am inclined to believe it is a fault with your filters that is preventing the ringing working. Or as I say if it only stops ringing with the modem plugged in then a fault with the modem could be the cause.

All very good advice.

I'd stick my neck out and say the low frequency ringing tone should not be loaded at all by the filter and if it was working properly it wouldn't matter what state the modem was in. Even if the modem presented a short circuit I'd expect the phones to still ring.

The filter is the #1 suspect. IMHO

The thing is if you look at the way filters are wired, in very many instances the RJ11 socket the modem plugs into is wired direct to the phone line. It is therefore very possible for a modem fault to upset the line. So a short circuiting modem would indeed prevent the phones ringing!

Blimey I was assuming there would be a high pass filter before the connection to the modem but I guess to keep ADSL filter costs down that must be part of the modem internals.

Indeed. In fact if you don't need a phone plugged into the same point as the modem you don't need any filter at all. Just use a BT plug to RJ11 socket adapter, sometimes called a UK to US phone adapter.

Hi Stevenoon,

Having read through the thread, it does sound like the micro filter might faulty. If you drop me a PM or email to forum.moderation.team At bt.com with you BT account details. I can then take a look at this in more detail.

Thanks

Patrick

Surely just try a new filter at the master ???

Many thank for the replies - (BT Patrick I have sent you a PM).

The problem occurs with two different ADSL filters - is it possible that a power surge or something has damaged both of these filters?

The reference to "modem" above, would this also apply to a router? We have a BT HomeHub 2.0 router which is installed upstairs on the end of an extension.

The reason the router is installed upstairs is because it's next to my PC which doesn't have a wireless adapter and therefore needs to use Ethernet.

Steve.

Technically the BT Home Hub and every other ADSL "router" is a Modem, Router and Network Switch flying in close formation The router is actually just one part hidden deep inside the electronics that interconnects the modem and switch. It is just common usage that calls the whole box a "router".

So while technically not being interchangeable, in this context modem = router or router = modem.

If both filters were connected to the line at the same time then it is possible some sort of voltage spike could have damaged them. But I would have thought it would also have damaged the modem in the Home Hub as well. Unless the Home Hub has some pretty good protection! Or they are really cheap and nasty and just the standard ring volts have degraded them.

But anyway replacing a filter or two is a cheaper option than sorting out your house wiring.