Originally Posted by AaronG

Oh sure, Jailhouse rock getting to number 4 in 1959 was much bigger news than World War II


*...have to confess I have no idea how Jailhouse rock charted or in which year.

You obviously never saw his acting ability!!

Originally Posted by Mattyhope

You obviously never saw his acting ability!!

I did see Pinocchio once, so I think I have a fairly good idea.

[trevalyan]

Originally Posted by floopy123

Hitler is the most evil person ever. He's the man that made God (if God exists!) regret giving humans free will.


I reckon if you could go forward to the ends of time when every human has lived, Hitler would be the worst. Sure, there are loads of evil dictators but Hitler is the king of the dictators. Imagine if Hitler had won the war. Forget Western democracy, it wouldn't exist. There would be no democracy in the world. It would be game over for the human race. This is why Hitler is the worst because he wanted to enslave the entire planet. It sounds so crazy, like a something out of a James Bond film, but it actually happened. Adolf Hitler, a man with a silly looking moustache, decided he wanted to rule the world. "I'll start with Europe, then invade Russia, then I'll move onto America and the rest of the world." Totally insane with zero regard for human life.

And here's a chilling thought. Had Hitler come to power in the era of nuclear weapons - and let's not forget the Americans had invented atomic weapons by the close of the war - the second world war could have led to the destruction of the human race. Imagine Hitler ruling Germany with a nuclear missile capability. He could have invaded Poland and said "if the British or any other nation declares war on Germany we will retaliate with nuclear weapons." I think Hitler would have done that. He had no regard for any life - even Germans, the very people he ruled over. Let's pray Hitler was a one-off because if Hitler mark 2 ever comes along, it's game over for the human race.

he loved his dog though

[hisdogspot]

Originally Posted by AaronG

What difference does that make to anything?

Well you said that Hitler was the most famous person to have ever lived ... or who will ever live.

It was a silly claim

Originally Posted by hisdogspot

Well you said that Hitler was the most famous person to have ever lived ... or who will ever live.

It was a silly claim

From someone who offers David Beckham as a counter?

I see you've seen my 'silly claim' and raised it.

Hitler was responsible or the biggest event of the 20th century. Almost certainly way beyond that.

I don't see how claiming that he's probably the most famous man to have lived is that much of a stretch.

Who is it then? Becks? Kerry Katona? Jodie Marsh?

[trevalyan]

Originally Posted by AaronG

I don't see how claiming that he's probably the most famous man to have lived is that much of a stretch.

Who is it then? Becks? Kerry Katona? Jodie Marsh?

psst, you do know that two of those aren't men?

[Bom Diddly Wo]

Hitler only had one testicle. How would that affect his intelect? Michael Jackson, at the end looked a bot like a peeled testicle. Is there a conection? Who can say.

Originally Posted by AaronG

Hitler was responsible or the biggest event of the 20th century. Almost certainly way beyond that.

I don't see how claiming that he's probably the most famous man to have lived is that much of a stretch.

Who is it then? Becks? Kerry Katona? Jodie Marsh?

No, its not a stretch, he is certainly in the top five of all time famous dudes!

Elvis is more famous though....

[surfie]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

I don't think Hitler was a genius. Nor presumably did the Allies, who shelved plans to assassinate Hitler because they felt he would make more mistakes than any of the top Nazis who might replace him.

Attacking the USSR while still battling Britain in the West, then declaring war on the USA. If that's genius, god knows what he'd have done if he was stupid!

And that's not taking into account that he thought he was preserving German culture when in fact he was destroying it (the Jewish contribution to German culture was immense; probably no country in Europe owed so much to them).

Had Hitler been a real military genious then the world would be different place now. In fact it was his - and his cronies - mistakes and failing to persuade the Japanese to invade Russia instead of taking on the Americans and British in ther Pacific that ultimately cost him the war.

[hisdogspot]

Originally Posted by AaronG

From someone who offers David Beckham as a counter?

I see you've seen my 'silly claim' and raised it.

I didn't say I thought David Beckham was the most famous person to have ever lived ... good Lord, I wouldn't presume to offer any subjective opinion of my own as being in any way significant or 'definitive'.

I was merely pointing out, that in the modern world, more people know who David Beckham is, than who know who Hitler was.

I didn't make that statistic up ... I'm just relaying having read it somewhere.

[floopy123]

In time people will forget Hitler but most people will still remember the Spice Girls.

Of course Hitler was evil but what about all the soldiers that followed him? They were hardly girl guides, were they! I think what Hitler represents, his disregard for life, his desire to rule the world, would make him the worst individual to be born, but all the soldiers that followed his orders were almost as bad. It's depressing to believe so many humans would follow Hitler and believe his crazy beliefs. It's quite possible Adolf Hitler never physically killed anyone in his lifetime, I don't know if that's true (I've never read a biography about Hitler so I don't know the fine detail of his life), but it's certainly true that his followers killed more people. Is the follower of an evil tyrant just as evil as the tyrant? Possibly.

[trevalyan]

Originally Posted by Bom Diddly Wo

Hitler only had one testicle. How would that affect his intelect? Michael Jackson, at the end looked a bot like a peeled testicle. Is there a conection? Who can say.

bubbles the chimp got hitler's pickled testicle implanted. that's why he had to be taken away eventually, he was goose stepping around Neverland and scaring Macauley Culkin

[cosmo]

Originally Posted by AaronG

You've got your '20th century' hat on.

Henry the VIII killed two of his wives, yet he's in that category now too.

The list goes on of people who committed abhorrent, unspeakable acts of wickedness who are now fondly remembered for their larger than life character and historical significance.

It'll happen I'm telling you. You think Hitler will be different from everyone else just because we're only 65 years removed and it's still recent enough to be within living memory?

Of course he's not.

In generations to come, Hitler will still be the villain of the piece such as all the other 'evil' and cartoon comic characters. But he'll also join every other major historical figure in the sense that one day his crimes become 'nullified'.

People will read about the gassing of six million people with the same distance and sense of detachment that we'd have if we read about a mass genocide or a brutal dictator 300 years ago.

He may be mocked or satirised but Adolf Hitler is never going to be portrayed as a simple villain of the peace or a loveable cartoon rogue.

What was carried out in Europe during his evil and murderous reign will never be forgotten. Nothing in the history of mankind comes anywhere near to it on the scale of barbarism.

He was a nasty, evil c**t and so were many who adhered to his perverted philosophies.

[hisdogspot]

Originally Posted by cosmo

He may be mocked or satirised but Adolf Hitler is never going to be portrayed as a simple villain of the peace or a loveable cartoon rogue.

What was carried out in Europe during his evil and murderous reign will never be forgotten. Nothing in the history of mankind comes anywhere near to it on the scale of barbarism.

He was a nasty, evil c**t and so were many who adhered to his perverted philosophies.

Aaron G seems to be under the impression that we all look back on the likes of Vlad the Impaler ... roll our eyes, and say ... "What a card old Vlad was"

[Davonator]

He was a genius, i don't know why people only assume that the word genius can be applied to positive people who did positive things. The dictionary makes it clear there is no sense of morality attached to the term (point 8)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genius

And i don't know why people think labelling someone a genius is an indicator you may have a unhealthy respect for them. That's nonsense.

I despise the man, but you have to concede he was probably the greatest orator in human history, and he turned a bankrupt country into a military power.

An Evil genius is still a genius.

[floopy123]

Evil genius?

Hmm... I dunno. I associate 'genius' with great creativity. Hitler was interested in spreading death and there's nothing creative about that. And as mentioned on the thread, he lost the war, from a military perspective he wasn't that smart. He invaded Russia and that cost him the war.

People assume Hitler was charismatic, he could convince people to believe in him but I assume they *had to follow him*. If you were living in Hitler's Germany prior to the war and said "Hitler is wrong, I won't follow him" I'm sure you'd end up dead. It's easy to be a dictator if the rule of law is twisted in your favour, if there are secret police enforcing your warped laws. In this respect it's possible Hitler wasn't a genius leader, it's more likely he ruled with a rod of iron and made people follow him. There's nothing genius about that. It's fear that keeps the dictator in power, not his skills as a leader. It's ironic Hitler was 'elected' leader of Germany even though he was, by any definition of the word, a dictator!

Hitler became Führer (Supreme Leader) on August 2, 1934: he'd been Chancellor of Germany since January 30, 1933. Very technically, Hitler was never actually elected, but he did take power legally under the laws of the then-Weimar Republic, which he almost immediately abolished. Until Hitler was appointed Chancellor, the Nazis never held an actual majority in the government and the parliament.

[SmartPrince]

Hitler was very good at what he did, but what he did was very bad.

He obviously had incredible skills and if he was not a very sick individual without a conscience he might have made a worthwhile contribution.

[trinity2002]

If being able to relate to people's prejudices and insecurities is genius then I may agree. But I'm not convinced. Yes, he was a great orator ( that means he had the gift of the gab) but that also doesn't equate to genius.

My belief is that the people he had behind him were a hell of a lot cleverer than he was.

All he did really was talk people into believing that the plight of their country was the fault of others. That isn't genius, that is being there at the right time and the right place. He told people what they wanted to hear......and those people lapped it up like dogs.

He had more supporters in 1933 than he did in 1939. People were already realising their mistake before WWII even started.

[floopy123]

Hitler was very good at what he did, but what he did was very bad.

He obviously had incredible skills and if he was not a very sick individual without a conscience he might have made a worthwhile contribution.

With respect, this is flawed reasoning.

"Hitler was very good at what he did,"

Well you could say that about a serial killer. He was very good at what he did!

Surely if someone does something that is universally considered "wrong" or "evil" it invalidates its merit. Sure, you can say Jack the ripper was good at killing but what does that really mean? He was a good murderer? It makes no sense.

What was Hitler good at? Being insane? Being evil? Being able to lead a nation of gullible bigoted idiots? I question the notion of Hitler having any genius or good traits. It's warped reasoning. "Hey, Hitler was arguably the most evil man that's ever lived but he did give a good speech or two!"



It's all a bit daft and more to the point, using the word "genius" when mentioning Hitler is a bit insensitive or disrespectful to all the millions of people that died because of Hitler's actions. I don't think Michael Jackson considered that when he said what he said. I suspect some people admire Hitler for his leadership abilities but to me that's like admiring a serial killer for not getting caught! "Hey, this serial killer is so evil but give him credit, the cops took forever to catch him!"

[trinity2002]

Originally Posted by SmartPrince

Hitler was very good at what he did, but what he did was very bad.

He obviously had incredible skills and if he was not a very sick individual without a conscience he might have made a worthwhile contribution.

If he was that good at what he did, he would, or his party would still be in power now.........he/they aren't....they were defeated.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by cosmo

He may be mocked or satirised but Adolf Hitler is never going to be portrayed as a simple villain of the peace or a loveable cartoon rogue.

What was carried out in Europe during his evil and murderous reign will never be forgotten. Nothing in the history of mankind comes anywhere near to it on the scale of barbarism.

He was a nasty, evil c**t and so were many who adhered to his perverted philosophies.

Stalin was arguably as bad as Hitler or worse, yet many Russians venerate his memory.

[floopy123]

Bring it back to Michael Jackson and imagine if he did have sex with young boys. You could say

"Man, that Jackson was such a sicko but wow - he sure did an amazing moonwalk!"

I guess you can twist anything around and try to find the good in something bad. But I think when it comes to people like Adolf Hitler, using the word 'genius' is a bit dumb. I dunno, I think Michael Jackson and Will Smith - who said something similar - should think twice before saying such stuff. People like Jackson and Smith are role models for younger people so they should think twice before saying stuff like this.

Stalin was arguably as bad as Hitler or worse, yet many Russians venerate his memory

From what I understand, Stalin persecuted his own people, Hitler didn't. He wanted to persecute everyone - Hitler would have wiped out everyone if he had a chance - so in this respect Hitler was worse than Stalin. From a global perspective, Hitler is the number one bad dictator. Stalin never started WW 2 so you'd have to say that makes him number two in the worst dictators of the 20th century list!

[cosmo]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

Stalin was arguably as bad as Hitler or worse, yet many Russians venerate his memory.

I think that was more to do with his defeat of the nazis - not his record on human rights in the USSR - which was no doubt hidden for the most part.

I doubt the citizens of modern Russia venerate Stalin's murderous activites.

[floopy123]

For the record, I think some of Michael Jackson's dance moves were genius! I'd certainly rate Jackson more of a genius than crazed evil man Adolf Hitler!