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Picture quality question
TerryH
29-09-2009
I am looking to upgrade my old crt TV, and have been looking around at various options.

One thing I've noticed is the image quality around text and channel dog's.

When connected to blu ray the pictures are amazing, however on other sources, even BBC hd, they have bits around the text and channel logo, a bit like an over compressed jpeg image.

Is this normal? And is it a display issue or a broadcast issue?

Thanks
chrisjr
29-09-2009
Bit of both probably.

Part of the problem is the bitrates used on several channels (the BBC tend to use more bits than the rest) which of course produces more compression artefacts. This is especially true on Freeview.

Then you have the issue of scalling the image. Most LCD panels will be HD resolution, either 720 or 1080 lines. SD pictures off Freeview/Freesat are 576 lines. So the TV has to scale the picture up to fill the screen. This can also introduce distortions into the picture depending on how good a scaler the TV has.

Obviously Blu-Ray can output at the native resolution of the screen so you don't get the scaling issues to the same degree. HD broadcasts use similar resolutions to Blu-Ray so are not scaled to the same extent as SD pictures for display. However they do use lower bitrates than Blu-Ray so we are back to the compression artefacts again.
TerryH
29-09-2009
Is there any manufacturer that has the best upscaling?

To be honest, I will be watching Freeview more than anything else, so this is quite a big issue for me.
chrisjr
29-09-2009
If you are comparing sets in the likes of Currys or Comet then you also need to be aware that many TVs have a "shop" mode. This can exaggerate the problems. If it's anything like my set the shop mode is dramatically different to normal mode.

But you should be OK with brands like Sony and Panasonic. I have an LG and that is pretty fair given a decent signal. But I don't think they have yet made a telly that can make the proverbial silk purse out of the sow's ear that is ITV4 Just try watching sport on ITV4 and compare it to similar stuff on BBC1 for example!

And viewing distance can play a part. There is an optimum distance for a particular size set, something like 6ft for a 32in set give or take a foot or so. However sitting a little further back can help as you don't notice the MPEG and scaling artefacts quite so much unless they are really bad. But then you also lose some of the benefit of a true HD source like a Blu-Ray disk.
TerryH
29-09-2009
Originally Posted by chrisjr:
“But I don't think they have yet made a telly that can make the proverbial silk purse out of the sow's ear that is ITV4 Just try watching sport on ITV4 and compare it to similar stuff on BBC1 for example!”

Well I notice that even on my CRT, my main aim is to get a TV set that can replicate the quality of the CRT I have now.

I have been considering the Samsung LED TV, simply because when looking in Currys, it has the best picture as far as I am concerned.

Only after seeing it in John Lewis playing the BBC HD Channel Preview, have I been able to notice the problem, however I was less than a foot away which is probably unreasonable.
Nigel Goodwin
29-09-2009
Originally Posted by TerryH:
“I have been considering the Samsung LED TV, simply because when looking in Currys, it has the best picture as far as I am concerned.”

Interestingly the ASA have recently investigated Samsung's misleading advertising, and they have been ordered to stop it. It's an LCD TV, not an LED one - all other manufacturers with similar sets already advertise them correctly.
TerryH
29-09-2009
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“Interestingly the ASA have recently investigated Samsung's misleading advertising, and they have been ordered to stop it. It's an LCD TV, not an LED one - all other manufacturers with similar sets already advertise them correctly.”

Well I agree, it's only backlit with LEDs but the picture is far superior to any others I've seen in Currys.

I'm not sure if it's got anything to do with the LEDs at all, but the slim screen and power consumption also go in its favour.
TallDave
29-09-2009
Originally Posted by TerryH:
“Well I agree, it's only backlit with LEDs but the picture is far superior to any others I've seen in Currys.

I'm not sure if it's got anything to do with the LEDs at all, but the slim screen and power consumption also go in its favour.”

If you're after a TV with the best possible scaling, you need to be looking at more outlets than Currys!

Check out a high-end Pioneer plasma, for instance.
TerryH
29-09-2009
Originally Posted by TallDave:
“If you're after a TV with the best possible scaling, you need to be looking at more outlets than Currys!

Check out a high-end Pioneer plasma, for instance.”

I'm looking for the best possible scaling at a half decent price!

I had a look at the Sony LED TVs yesterday, and whilst being pretty damn good, the £2000 price tag is just too much.

Currys was where I first spotted the TV (I didn't go in there looking to buy one), now I've been trying to find out how good it compares to others.
rjb101
29-09-2009
Originally Posted by TerryH:
“Well I notice that even on my CRT, my main aim is to get a TV set that can replicate the quality of the CRT I have now.

I have been considering the Samsung LED TV, simply because when looking in Currys, it has the best picture as far as I am concerned.

Only after seeing it in John Lewis playing the BBC HD Channel Preview, have I been able to notice the problem, however I was less than a foot away which is probably unreasonable.”

I've seen it in currys too, and yes it looks great. It looks great switched off too, which being shallow I find important I'd like to see it showing a bit of freeview though if I was buying one, just to see if that's ok.
skinj
30-09-2009
We've have only sold one of these sets and it was returned within 2 weeks as the pq was poor in real room situations. The customer decided that when watching in low light for movies the baklighting was totally inconsistant and the whole image would visably shift in brightness on the greyscale while watching an image. We didnt see the problem until we dimmed the lights in store and then it was awful. Also the corners were brighter than the middle of the screen, this was noticable at normal lighting too.
TerryH
30-09-2009
Originally Posted by skinj:
“We've have only sold one of these sets and it was returned within 2 weeks as the pq was poor in real room situations. The customer decided that when watching in low light for movies the baklighting was totally inconsistant and the whole image would visably shift in brightness on the greyscale while watching an image. We didnt see the problem until we dimmed the lights in store and then it was awful. Also the corners were brighter than the middle of the screen, this was noticable at normal lighting too.”

Thanks for the reply, looks like it's time for me to have a re-think!

Just out of curiosity, which make would you say was the best seller (and that doesn't get returned).
u006852
30-09-2009
If you are used to a CRT, IMHO you will find plasmas offer a more natural image.

They don't always fair well when compared to LCD in brightly lit shops as LCDs are brighter (and often badly set up to boot). So thats not a good place to decide.

Try to find an independant retailer who can show the TVs , LCD or plasma, properly set up in realistic settings.

What size are you after? Panasonic plasmas start at 37" and £500 and are good.
TerryH
30-09-2009
Originally Posted by u006852:
“What size are you after? Panasonic plasmas start at 37" and £500 and are good.”

I was looking at around the 34" mark, which is why I haven't really considered the plasmas.

However, if the panasonic ones are that good and that price, then I could be persuaded to go up to 37".
Chris Frost
30-09-2009
I got a 37" Panasonic for the Father-in-Law. He's very happy with it. He had Sky HD for a year but has gone back to SD Sky.
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