[wavejockglw]

Perhaps someone can explain this supposed new groundbreakinng concept to me. 'ThreePay' 3's new PAYG offering.

Its just as much commitment as the contract service as you need to top-up once-a-month. (Only benefit is you can change down/up tarriff easier).

The calls + services cost the same as the contract deal but you pay in advance.

You have to pay up to £150 for a handset when contract customers get them free - hardly a baragin!

You dont get any cash backs or free accessories.

The proposition is'nt flexible at all because if you have a variable income you can modify your use on a normal PAYG but with 3 it's use it or loose it. You get XXX No of minutes for a set cost but you MUST use them within 30 days.

And there are the usual 3 drawbacks - poor offshore customer service, inferior coverage, limited handset battery life, No mobile internet and No Cross-Network MMS.....

An outsize contract phone deal for the credit unworthy as far as I can make out.

[MacattacK]

Quote:

Originally posted by wavejockglw
Perhaps someone can explain this supposed new groundbreakinng concept to me. 'ThreePay' 3's new PAYG offering.

It seems that you are "Better Off With ThreePay"

Its just as much commitment as the contract service as you need to top-up once-a-month. (Only benefit is you can change down/up tarriff easier).

Where's the "commitment"? You would commit to a contract. There is no contract with these phones. You can walk away at any time. You would only lose the minutes that you paid for. But anyway, a person that forks out £149 for a handset are more than likely doing so becuase they want to take advantage of the cheap calls and doesn't give two hoots about the possibility of losing a few minutes at the end of the month or some tiny level of "commitment".

Is it really too much to ask that a person considers how many calls they may make in the next month?

You dont get any cash backs or free accessories.

The incentive is in the price plan. But I thought the phone came with a handsfree kit included. Also, to be honest, what accessories are actually useful to the average J Bloggs on the street?

The proposition is'nt flexible at all because if you have a variable income you can modify your use on a normal PAYG but with 3 it's use it or loose(sic) it. You get XXX No of minutes for a set cost but you MUST use them within 30 days.

But the people that take up the ThreePay phones are going to be well aware of this. It's certainly an alternative that I would prefer as it's very clear and concise as to what you get and don't get. The PayG stuff from the big networks can be a tad confusing (especially Vodafone's current multi-tier system).

The calls + services cost the same as the contract deal but you pay in advance.

As with any PayG phone, you would pay in advance. The difference here being that the call charges are the same for contract and PayG

You have to pay up to £150 for a handset when contract customers get them free - hardly a baragin!

As any PayG customer has to on any network... The prices vary but you have to pay for the handset up front.

And there are the usual 3 drawbacks - poor offshore customer service, inferior coverage, limited handset battery life, No mobile internet and No Cross-Network MMS.....

After reading the other 3 thread you appear to have a bee in your bonnet about 3. I would suggest that the casual reader on the thread go on the merits of the package over your seemingly regular rants. Although:[list][*]The customer service seems agreeable to a lot of my friends who have happily been using 3 for many a month[*]The comment about inferior coverage is a bit daft as there is no other 3G operator to compare coverage to (over a period of time rather than proposed) in the UK and their 2G is handled by the O2 network which is just about everywhere.[*]The battery-life of the A835 (The PayG handset in question in this thread) is more than adequate. A friend of mine has the phone and regularly uses it's features yet charges the phone once every 2-3 days[*]It has a mobile internet that is walled in within the 3 network. This has a great news and sport facility including being able to download and keep highlights of the weekend matches for 25p a shot. The text news and sport is available for free currently AFAIN.[*]As for X-network MMS, if you call 3 on 0870 733 0 333 and ask them they will tell you that it's due in the spring. It's up to you whether you believe them or not. [/list]An outsize contract phone deal for the credit unworthy as far as I can make out.

What does outsize mean?

I happen to be "credit unworthy" and this phone is ideal for me. If a person is spending £35 on their top-ups and making peak-time calls at 10p a minute to the same network or a land-line they only get 350 minutes. On ThreePay for the same price you would get 750 cross-network anytime minutes. I for one won't begrudge not being able to roll over a few minutes when I'd already gained 400 minutes from changing to 3s tariff.

How about suggesting an PayG alternative for me that has a better package than ThreePay...

[wavejockglw]

You seem well sold but its not quite as simple as you suggest.

Mobile Internet (ie WAP/GPRS) services are far greater in scope than the very limited content that 3 provide in their 'walled garden'. You cant use the phone at all to connect to the Internet either using the handset display or the built-in modem. Browsing BBCi etc is not an option.

XNet MMS is'nt likely to be available for some time as it goes hand in hand with the lack of Internet access above.

The A-835 phone is bigger and has a significantly lower battery life than current 2/2.5G handsets.

The cost to call same network/landlines is'nt 10p/min on GSM networks its much less. Taking your 350 minutes/month averaged daily thats 12 mins a day approx. Stepped pre-pay would charge 3 X 25p for the 1st 3 mins a day then 5p/min thereafter so average per day would be £1.20 = £36.00/mth. That's only £1 more than you suggest paying to 3 and you have to invest £150 on a handset to save that!

3's coverage is not as reliable as GSM currently, (the technology makes no difference to the user) - no question about that and they cant switch between themselves and 02 when out of UMTS coverage.

As for your own needs you will have to work out what is best for you but ThreePay is not a very cost effective proposition for the vast majority of Pre-Pay customes due to the time-limited vouchers and the £150 investment in hardware right now. The deals 3 are doing with the A-835 on contracts with 1/2 price line rental, Cash Back etc means that their own contract customers pay about £262 less in the 1st year compared with ThreePay customers. And they said they thought Pre-Pay customers were being ripped off in comparison to contract ones...they're having a laugh!

[MacattacK]

Quote:

Originally posted by wavejockglw
You seem well sold but its not quite as simple as you suggest.

Whether I'm well sold or not isn't the issue. You asked and I told. I was just interested in putting across a different perspective on ThreePay to what you had given.

Mobile Internet (ie WAP/GPRS) services are far greater in scope than the very limited content that 3 provide in their 'walled garden'. You cant use the phone at all to connect to the Internet either using the handset display or the built-in modem. Browsing BBCi etc is not an option.

Who says I want to browse BBCi? Or the internet as a whole? I pick up the news and Three provide that. That'll do for me.

XNet MMS is'nt(sic) likely to be available for some time as it goes hand in hand with the lack of Internet access above.

Hey, don't tell it to me, tell it to the person at Three that I spoke to who advised me of this. I'll go with them on this and I'm not particualrly fussed if you wish to quote me in two months time.

The A-835 phone is bigger and has a significantly lower battery life than current 2/2.5G handsets.

Bigger? Big deal! Sigificant in what way? Shall we compare some of the other phones with similar features? (64k screen, at least 1 camera, able to record/play videos, bluetooth, I/R etc)

The A835 has a talk-time of 2.25 hours and standby of 215 hours.
The Nokia 6600 tt of 2-4 hours (A bit ambiguous) and standby of 150-240 hours (and again...).
Nokia 7600 tt 2-3hrs standby 168-300hrs
Nokia 7700 tt 3-4hrs standby 240hrs
SE P900 tt 16hrs standby 480hrs

That's just a couple. So the phone performs about as well as a Nokia but doesn't come near SE. However, have a look at the phones available on PayG and find me one that can perform as well as the A835 and has similar functions.

The cost to call same network/landlines is'nt 10p/min on GSM networks its much less. Taking your 350 minutes/month averaged daily thats 12 mins a day approx. Stepped pre-pay would charge 3 X 25p for the 1st 3 mins a day then 5p/min thereafter so average per day would be £1.20 = £36.00/mth. That's only £1 more than you suggest paying to 3 and you have to invest £150 on a handset to save that!

OK, what about cross network calling? Odds on, not everybody that you know is going to be on the same network as you. If half of your friends that you regularly call are on different networks then this is a bargain. I happen to be on a different tariff to the rest of my family. Almost all my calls are cross network. Several friends are on 3 which costs me 50p a minute.

3's coverage is not as reliable as GSM currently, (the technology makes no difference to the user) - no question about that and they cant switch between themselves and 02 when out of UMTS coverage.

Well it'll be fine for a large percentage of the population, like people who live in cities (like me), so there's no problem there for me.

As for your own needs you will have to work out what is best for you

...cop out... you can't tell me a comparable 2G PayG tariff (With a phone that has functions like the A835) can you?

but ThreePay is not a very cost effective proposition for the vast majority of Pre-Pay customes due to the time-limited vouchers and the £150 investment in hardware right now. The deals 3 are doing with the A-835 on contracts with 1/2 price line rental, Cash Back etc means that their own contract customers pay about £262 less in the 1st year compared with ThreePay customers. And they said they thought Pre-Pay customers were being ripped off in comparison to contract ones...they're having a laugh!

You quote a figure of £262 saving as a contract customer on 3. Isn't this the same kind of saving that you'd make on a 2G contract as opposed to a 2G PayG? For frequent cross-network calling PayG people this package is worth it.

You have some fair points but you always have to put the boot into 3 in general which takes a little bit of credibility from your argument.

Face it, it's an extremely viable option for many people including myself - credit-worthy or not.

[wavejockglw]

Its your choice! I'm a contract customer and use my 200 inclusive XNet minutes to call mobiles - £30/month. I then use a calling card service to call landlines at 2.5p/min anytime - so that works out pretty well for me. In addition I have a very small handset that has full Internet access and no issues regarding coverage, network switching, battery life or MMS and before you think otherwise.....I have a 3 phone also and have used it and ported back out because of service limitations that they could not address (Voice call reliability).

The whole point I am making above is that what appears good value (and it can be for a very limited few that make lots of XNet calls and cant get a contract) on the surface isnt such a blinding great deal once all of the costs are considered. Each individual will have to work out their own calling pattern and weigh up whether the time-restricted vouchers and the handset investment make a saving over a year or so as the 3G market will undoubtedly have much better options in the following few months.

BTW - The A-835 isnt a poor handset really, its the best of what is currently available but its not an ideal piece of kit and whilst it has some interesting features it is miles away from being a serious contender to the Samsungs, Panasonics and Nokias on GSM - and the senior telco execs at Cannes this week agree with that!

[MacattacK]

You're right. It suits me fine. But you do have some very good points. In the long run, ThreePay needs cheaper handsets and fast.

[Mr Cable]

Quote:

Originally posted by wavejockglw
XNet MMS is'nt likely to be available for some time as it goes hand in hand with the lack of Internet access above.....

Not strictly true as my moto ALREADY uses GPRS to receive it's emails - shouldn't be that huge jump to allow MMS.

Quote:

Taking your 350 minutes/month averaged daily thats 12 mins a day approx. Stepped pre-pay would charge 3 X 25p for the 1st 3 mins a day then 5p/min thereafter so average per day would be £1.20 = £36.00/mth. That's only £1 more than you suggest paying to 3........

OK, so £1 more for the quoted useage - never mind the fact that you're getting more than DOUBLE the call allowance!
So £1 less for more than twice as much calling, sounds like a hell of a bargain to me!

And as regards for Contract customers having a better deal that ThreePay - NO! Get out of town, well I never! <sarky smiley>

Prepay customers have always accepted that they have to pay for handsets, and £149.99 for one that has the functions of the a835 is a bargain when you compare to the price of the greatly functionally inferior PrePay GX20 (more than twice the price at £350 on voda's web site), etc.

We can all agree that PAYG customers tend to get shafted compared to Contract. I think that 3 have taken a huge step in equalising things - their recent 4 page press campaigns have done well to show this to the public, and ThreePay is the first, fair, PAYG tariff for the millions of heavy users on prepay.

Good luck to them, I hope this works, it deserves to.

[wavejockglw]

I think Mr cable you are missing the point - its not the price I object to. Its the limitations that the time restricted vouchers rope users into that is the problem. That's what will make ThreePay a very unattractive proposition for most pre-pay customers.

BTW - When you receive e-mail by GPRS on the Moto A-835 its because you are in 02's GSM reception area. 3 dont use GPRS to send data as theirs is a pure 3G UMTS network - thats where the problems with XNet MMS arise.

[Mr Cable]

Quote:

Originally posted by wavejockglw
.....When you receive e-mail by GPRS on the Moto A-835 its because you are in 02's GSM reception area. 3 dont use GPRS to send data as theirs is a pure 3G UMTS network - thats where the problems with XNet MMS arise.

Looking back at my post, I wasn't clear enough, that's why I think you are missing my point.

I can recieve email via UMTS (on 3G) or GPRS (on 2.5G), there is no noticable difference to me in service - there should be very little reason why this, which is simply data delivery, cannot be applied to MMS - yes, it'll be the first time, but that'll be explained in the delay.

I waited a good 6 months for the 'Big Four' to pull their fingers out over cross network MMS as they had issues (not talking to each other being one), that's why I'm willing to wait again, maybe even a little longer due to the new problem of the difference between GSM/UMTS formats. Credit where credit is due, 3 will be the first in the country to do this, so a wait until they have perfected it is inevitable.

Oh, and they're substantially cheaper at 25p!

[wavejockglw]

They are cheap of course because you cant send anything outwith their network!

3 will have to allow proper mobile internet access to achieve XNet MMS (with GSM networks) and 11 months on that is still a distant dream. Nobody at 3 can provide any answer as to when they expect to be able to provide one of the very key facilities that 3G and faster data over wireless promised - What a leap forward! (Meanwhile the GSM 4 are able to do not only XNet pictures but short video clips too!).

All too often its not about the technology - its what use it can be put to and how useful it is in reality... The above is another shining example of the incompetence of 3UK.

[MacattacK]

Quote:

Originally posted by wavejockglw
They are cheap of course because you cant send anything outwith their network!

But you can send emails

3 will have to allow proper mobile internet access to achieve XNet MMS (with GSM networks) and 11 months on that is still a distant dream. Nobody at 3 can provide any answer as to when they expect to be able to provide one of the very key facilities that 3G and faster data over wireless promised - What a leap forward! (Meanwhile the GSM 4 are able to do not only XNet pictures but short video clips too!).

I thought I'd already said that 3 have said on their helpline that cross network MMS will be available in the spring ( I also thought that the 3 phones were only widely available in April/May of last year). What's the obsession with these leaps forward? Why can't you just accept them as another mobile phone operator that provides reasonable competition to the others? I don't care what's been promised, I'm looking for the best deals and as I primarily make voice calls and mostly cross-network then this is a very good deal.

All too often its not about the technology - its what use it can be put to and how useful it is in reality... The above is another shining example of the incompetence of 3UK.

For you it seems to be about the technology, the 3 technology is about as useful as 2G. The poeple who use their mobile as a modem are in an extreme minority. MMS is slow going as it is but when 3 gets going it could very well see an increase in use.

I still don't see how the fact that 3 provide a solid user base and decent coverage for the majority of the country (Remember Virgin and T-Mobile's coverage for the first year or two?) can be described as incompetence by Hutchison.

Again with the sleight against 3 in general. Change the network...

[wavejockglw]

What you have posted above might be a decent defence of 3's efforts to date if they had been launching a mobile phone service a few years ago - not now when there are 4 very efficient GSM networks providing good coverage and a variety of proven services nationwide.

The UK has a mature, saturated market and any new operator has to offer products and services that are just as good or better to make any impact. This goes for all of the services that customers expect including Internet, MMS etc etc.

I was one of the early adopters who suffered having been supplied with hardware that did'nt work properly on their 3G network. Their customer service and billing function was a shambles, so much so that they had no option but to allow me to port back out after 4 months of very frustrating experience with a product that they knew was not up to the job.

The Motorola A-835 has proven to be a much better handset for them but 3 still dont provide the quality of service that the 4 GSM networks do. Thats's why it's significantly cheaper and why the existing GSM networks are'nt bothering to price match. BTW coverage for voice is'nt an issue for 3 as they roam onto 02 where they dont have 3G coverage. Calls drop when this happens as it is a XNet arrangement but GSM operators wont have this problem when they launch their 3G services after the summer. This is 3's fault as its their responsibility to ensure their network works in sync with their chosen roaming partners.

Data /Internet access/Gaming/MMS/Video Messaging will be the big must have features that 3G can provide faster than GSM and all of these are things 3 have neglected to get right so far. All things considered and based on my experience of using 3, I would strongly suggest that if people are tempted by the cheap calls then try 3 but dont keep the phone past the 14 day trial period if they experience a poorer service than they had. Promises about improved network performance, internet access, MMS etc are easy to provide but again my experience dealing with 3's CS proves that the staff (most of whom are offshore) just dont know the facts and there has been plenty of evidence in the press and the TV (Watchdog) to verify that.

Last word on 3 - You get what you pay for - same as anything else really. Dont expect Sony quality from something that looks the same and is badged Alba or Amstrad.